Disc brake road bikes and frames
03-25-07 | 09:12 PM
#27
Mirror slap survivor
Joined: Apr 2005
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From: Sunny Florida
Bikes: Gunnar Sport, Surly Pacer, Access MTB, Ibex Corrida, one day a Simple City
I think discs are the hot setup in wet weather. Stopping power is better, no doubt, but they're cleaner. No mess on the rims. They do interfere with rack mounting, but Waterford/Gunnar have solved that with the Rock Tour. The caliper mount is on the chainstay. My dream bad weather road bike would be a Ti bike with discs and the chainstay caliper mount. Wonder if Habanero can do that?
03-25-07 | 09:48 PM
#28
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From: San Francisco!
Bikes: 2010 Surly LHT (main rider and do-everything bike), 2011 Bike Friday NWT (back-up bike and multi-modal)
Ah, true, it is the World DBX, not the Super Sport DBX, and it does have a triple. But that's what makes it a better commuting machine than the Sport DBX from 2006. A triple comes in handy if your commuting route has hills to cross, doesn't it?
Anyway, as I said before, I'm moving to an area notorious for its wet and rainy weather. It's also notorious for being especially hilly. I think I may have found the perfect commuter for that place
All that's needed is a test ride to make sure that I like the way it rides.
And mountain bikes with knobby tires for the street? EEEEEEeewww!!
Oh, Schwinnrider (funny name), if you'll notice, the Schwinn World DBX comes with the rear disc brake caliper on the chainstay. The Trek Portland and LeMond Poprad have that as well, if you'll take a look.
Anyway, as I said before, I'm moving to an area notorious for its wet and rainy weather. It's also notorious for being especially hilly. I think I may have found the perfect commuter for that place
All that's needed is a test ride to make sure that I like the way it rides.
And mountain bikes with knobby tires for the street? EEEEEEeewww!!
Oh, Schwinnrider (funny name), if you'll notice, the Schwinn World DBX comes with the rear disc brake caliper on the chainstay. The Trek Portland and LeMond Poprad have that as well, if you'll take a look.
03-25-07 | 10:32 PM
#29
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Originally Posted by UmneyDurak
Not sure what is the point of disk breaks on a road bike. If you are riding in road conditions that actually require them, then it might be better using MTB with knobby tires.
03-25-07 | 11:07 PM
#30
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From: Ohio
Originally Posted by UmneyDurak
Not sure what is the point of disk breaks on a road bike.
03-26-07 | 12:51 AM
#32
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From: Oakland, CA
Originally Posted by Sci-Fi
There's a growing demand for disc brake equipped road bikes. Obviously there's a weight penalty, but it may stem from mtn bikers moving to road bikes and/or consumers making the link to their disc brake equipped cars and feel it's a superior braking system. Wouldn't be surprised if hydraulic disk brake systems start showing up for road bikes...they are certainly gaining momentum on the mtn biking scene as well as larger rotors.
03-26-07 | 01:09 AM
#33
RacingBear
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: NorCal
Originally Posted by Sci-Fi
There's a growing demand for disc brake equipped road bikes. Obviously there's a weight penalty, but it may stem from mtn bikers moving to road bikes and/or consumers making the link to their disc brake equipped cars and feel it's a superior braking system. Wouldn't be surprised if hydraulic disk brake systems start showing up for road bikes...they are certainly gaining momentum on the mtn biking scene as well as larger rotors.
Rm brakes are atrocious in the wet, thats the number one reason I want disc
03-26-07 | 01:12 AM
#34
RacingBear
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: NorCal
Originally Posted by unkchunk
Rim wear. It depends on each rider's individual conditions (weight, terrain, stop lights, road grim, etc.) and you may not have had a problem with it. But my bike is only a year old and I'm starting to wonder if my front rim will last another 6 months. I can't be replacing a new front wheel every year and a half. So I'm thinking a front disc brake would be a good solution for me. But I'm going to pass on the rear disc.
03-26-07 | 02:43 AM
#35
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Originally Posted by UmneyDurak
So basically it's more of a perceived need, and not actual real need.
What are the benefits of disc brakes over rim brakes?
Here are many points that have been widely acknowledged, some more or less than others, depending on the brakes being compared -
*All-weather performance (little or no change due to water, mud, ice)
*Low maintenance (setup calipers once & forget)
*Long pad life
*More stopping power for less effort (less forearm “pump-up” on long down hills)
*More control - better modulation (smooth grab-free power application and less wheel lock-up)
*No more worn out rim sidewalls
*Can knock a wheel out of true and still ride, with no effect on braking.
*More mud clearance (those who ride in mud and leaves know what that means!)
Are disc brakes better than rim brakes?
Usually our braking performance is limited more by the friction between tire and trail than by the friction between pad and rim. If we can lock up a wheel, then locking it up using less power is hardly much of an improvement. But the gain here would be during long descents where less finger pressure would lead to less arm strain. With disc brakes the maker gets to make the whole package - pads, rotor, lever, cylinders - so they can engineer them to compliment each other with minimum compromise. The limiting factor with rim brakes has got to be the soft alloy rims and pads that surrender stopping ability because of their needed softness necessary to prevent damage to these rims. Another limiting factor is their closeness to the water and mud that we ride through.
But we do find that power, modulation (smooth application of that power), longevity, adjustability are generally better with disc brakes. Disc brakes suffer far less than rim brakes in poor conditions.
Here are many points that have been widely acknowledged, some more or less than others, depending on the brakes being compared -
*All-weather performance (little or no change due to water, mud, ice)
*Low maintenance (setup calipers once & forget)
*Long pad life
*More stopping power for less effort (less forearm “pump-up” on long down hills)
*More control - better modulation (smooth grab-free power application and less wheel lock-up)
*No more worn out rim sidewalls
*Can knock a wheel out of true and still ride, with no effect on braking.
*More mud clearance (those who ride in mud and leaves know what that means!)
Are disc brakes better than rim brakes?
Usually our braking performance is limited more by the friction between tire and trail than by the friction between pad and rim. If we can lock up a wheel, then locking it up using less power is hardly much of an improvement. But the gain here would be during long descents where less finger pressure would lead to less arm strain. With disc brakes the maker gets to make the whole package - pads, rotor, lever, cylinders - so they can engineer them to compliment each other with minimum compromise. The limiting factor with rim brakes has got to be the soft alloy rims and pads that surrender stopping ability because of their needed softness necessary to prevent damage to these rims. Another limiting factor is their closeness to the water and mud that we ride through.
But we do find that power, modulation (smooth application of that power), longevity, adjustability are generally better with disc brakes. Disc brakes suffer far less than rim brakes in poor conditions.
Remember the days before disc brakes?:
Toeing-in
Shaving off that lip
Scrubbing with a toothbrush
Digging-out embedded grit
Resetting the tension on those soft springs
Not being able to get the wheel out
Getting the angles right
Changing the angles as the pads wore down
Cleaning that aluminium sludge off the rims
Squeal
Cleaning the rims again!
Concave rims
Splitting rims
Looking for gritty puddles to help you stop when it was raining
Worn bushes
Greasing cables
Replacing cables?
Ah! Those were the days! Fair character-building it was! Brings a tear
to my eye... or at least it would if I was not s******ing at the thought
of people STILL doing that!
Toeing-in
Shaving off that lip
Scrubbing with a toothbrush
Digging-out embedded grit
Resetting the tension on those soft springs
Not being able to get the wheel out
Getting the angles right
Changing the angles as the pads wore down
Cleaning that aluminium sludge off the rims
Squeal
Cleaning the rims again!
Concave rims
Splitting rims
Looking for gritty puddles to help you stop when it was raining
Worn bushes
Greasing cables
Replacing cables?
Ah! Those were the days! Fair character-building it was! Brings a tear
to my eye... or at least it would if I was not s******ing at the thought
of people STILL doing that!
With all that being said, There's nothing wrong with rim brakes and they will do the job at hand and have done so for decades. It all depends on your local riding conditions, whether one would benefit from disc brakes or not. Like anything, what type of brakes one chooses or prefers could come down to a personal choice or weight considerations for the more competitive rider. Personally, I expect that my next road bike will have disc brakes.
03-26-07 | 04:48 PM
#36
RacingBear
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,053
Likes: 68
From: NorCal
Originally Posted by Sci-Fi
Not necessarily. Many MTN bikers swear by disc brakes. Just read the FAQ at mtbr:
One person made this comment
My neighbor road bike has disc brakes and he says he can slow down/stop with a lot less pressure on the levers...even one finger can control the bike braking.
With all that being said, There's nothing wrong with rim brakes and they will do the job at hand and have done so for decades. It all depends on your local riding conditions, whether one would benefit from disc brakes or not. Like anything, what type of brakes one chooses or prefers could come down to a personal choice or weight considerations for the more competitive rider. Personally, I expect that my next road bike will have disc brakes.
One person made this comment
My neighbor road bike has disc brakes and he says he can slow down/stop with a lot less pressure on the levers...even one finger can control the bike braking.
With all that being said, There's nothing wrong with rim brakes and they will do the job at hand and have done so for decades. It all depends on your local riding conditions, whether one would benefit from disc brakes or not. Like anything, what type of brakes one chooses or prefers could come down to a personal choice or weight considerations for the more competitive rider. Personally, I expect that my next road bike will have disc brakes.
03-26-07 | 05:08 PM
#37
Originally Posted by UmneyDurak
Exactly, I doubt 95% of commuters or road bikers encounter conditions where they actually need them. There is just a perceived need because of what you listed above. When in reality rim brakes would work just as good for their riding environment.
There's a reason some of us are big fans of disc brakes, and it's got nothing to do with the desire to spend more money or impress someone.
Need is a pretty worthless term. You don't need a bike at all if your kid has a big wheel in the garage...
03-26-07 | 05:57 PM
#38
RacingBear
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,053
Likes: 68
From: NorCal
Originally Posted by JeffS
There's a reason some of us are big fans of disc brakes, and it's got nothing to do with the desire to spend more money or impress someone.
Need is a pretty worthless term. You don't need a bike at all if your kid has a big wheel in the garage...
Need is a pretty worthless term. You don't need a bike at all if your kid has a big wheel in the garage...
03-26-07 | 06:34 PM
#39
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From: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted by UmneyDurak
Maybe it's the wheels? Just saying. First time I really heard of that particular problem.
I went out of my way to purchase a bike with disc brakes for a number of the reasons mentioned in this thread:
- wet weather stopping power
- rim wear
- squealing rims
- brake muck & grime
- short pad life
- fouled cables
I do commute every day, rain or shine, and all of the problems that I mentioned above were a reality of rim brakes. I no longer have any of those problems. The maintenance on my brakes & cables and grime on my bike decreased significantly with disc brakes.
03-26-07 | 06:40 PM
#40
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From: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted by UmneyDurak
Exactly, I doubt 95% of commuters or road bikers encounter conditions where they actually need them. There is just a perceived need because of what you listed above. When in reality rim brakes would work just as good for their riding environment.
If you live in a wet environment, then disc brakes have real advantages. If you don't or if you don't often ride in the rain, then the because of the cost & weight, disc brakes are probably unncessary.
03-26-07 | 06:42 PM
#41
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From: San Francisco!
Bikes: 2010 Surly LHT (main rider and do-everything bike), 2011 Bike Friday NWT (back-up bike and multi-modal)
Well, I'm moving to the Seattle area over the summer, and when I get a job there I plan on having a bike that I can ride 365 days a year, rain, shine, or...snow? Oh, I guess I should be looking for a mountain bike, too.
03-26-07 | 06:47 PM
#42
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From: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted by fat_bike_nut
Well, I'm moving to the Seattle area over the summer, and when I get a job there I plan on having a bike that I can ride 365 days a year, rain, shine, or...snow? Oh, I guess I should be looking for a mountain bike, too.
Unless you're riding singletrack on the weekends, I'd lean more towards a road bike for commuting, but that's just my personal preference really. Different strokes...
03-26-07 | 06:50 PM
#43
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From: San Francisco!
Bikes: 2010 Surly LHT (main rider and do-everything bike), 2011 Bike Friday NWT (back-up bike and multi-modal)
Hey, I'm no fan of mountain bikes myself. I'm more of a roadie too, which why I'd prefer a cyclocross bike when riding off-road, unless the trails get really technical. Then and only then will I switch to a mountain bike. But for snow, I think a mountain bike would be better than a road bike, since most road bikes (touring and cyclocross excluded of course) can't equip studded snow tires.
03-26-07 | 06:56 PM
#44
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From: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted by fat_bike_nut
Hey, I'm no fan of mountain bikes myself. I'm more of a roadie too, which why I'd prefer a cyclocross bike when riding off-road, unless the trails get really technical. Then and only then will I switch to a mountain bike. But for snow, I think a mountain bike would be better than a road bike, since most road bikes (touring and cyclocross excluded of course) can't equip studded snow tires.
03-26-07 | 07:00 PM
#45
RacingBear
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,053
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From: NorCal
I commute, ride, and do training rides in the rain. Just not a whole lot of rain around here I guess.
Originally Posted by greenstork
If you've never heard of rim wear problems in wet weather regions then I can't imagine that you commute a lot in the rain. It's possible to go through a set of rims once every 1-2 years in Seattle if you commute every day, depending on your mileage, obviously.
I went out of my way to purchase a bike with disc brakes for a number of the reasons mentioned in this thread:
- wet weather stopping power
- rim wear
- squealing rims
- brake muck & grime
- short pad life
- fouled cables
I do commute every day, rain or shine, and all of the problems that I mentioned above were a reality of rim brakes. I no longer have any of those problems. The maintenance on my brakes & cables and grime on my bike decreased significantly with disc brakes.
I went out of my way to purchase a bike with disc brakes for a number of the reasons mentioned in this thread:
- wet weather stopping power
- rim wear
- squealing rims
- brake muck & grime
- short pad life
- fouled cables
I do commute every day, rain or shine, and all of the problems that I mentioned above were a reality of rim brakes. I no longer have any of those problems. The maintenance on my brakes & cables and grime on my bike decreased significantly with disc brakes.
03-26-07 | 07:08 PM
#46
RacingBear
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,053
Likes: 68
From: NorCal
Originally Posted by greenstork
C'mon, need is a relative term. Could we all get by with downtube shifters? Yes probably, we don't need integrated shifters or barcons. Do we really need 9-10 speed rear cassettes? No, we don't really need all of those gears. Do any of us really need $1000-1500 bikes? No, probably not, we could easily get by with much less.
If you live in a wet environment, then disc brakes have real advantages. If you don't or if you don't often ride in the rain, then the because of the cost & weight, disc brakes are probably unncessary.
If you live in a wet environment, then disc brakes have real advantages. If you don't or if you don't often ride in the rain, then the because of the cost & weight, disc brakes are probably unncessary.
03-26-07 | 07:11 PM
#47
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From: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted by UmneyDurak
I commute, ride, and do training rides in the rain. Just not a whole lot of rain around here I guess.
If only Ti bike makers could configure a better dropout for disc brakes... coming soon I suppose.
03-26-07 | 07:15 PM
#48
RacingBear
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,053
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From: NorCal
Originally Posted by greenstork
And if I lived in a drier climate, I would have saved my money on more expensive hubs & brakes and sunk that money into a Titanium frame instead If only Ti bike makers could configure a better dropout for disc brakes... coming soon I suppose.
If only Ti bike makers could configure a better dropout for disc brakes... coming soon I suppose.
03-26-07 | 07:18 PM
#49
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From: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted by UmneyDurak
Can't you just swap a fork and have disk brakes on the front only?
03-26-07 | 08:47 PM
#50
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From: San Francisco!
Bikes: 2010 Surly LHT (main rider and do-everything bike), 2011 Bike Friday NWT (back-up bike and multi-modal)
Originally Posted by UmneyDurak
Can't you just swap a fork and have disk brakes on the front only?