I was reading through a British Cycling magazine the other day. They did a review on this Orbea as a commuter. From that article and this thread, wow. "Commuter" is in the eyes of the beholder...

As for the Obrbea making a good commuter on this side of the pond? I'd be willing to test it out. :D

Orbea, this side of the pond: http://www.orbea-usa.com/fly.aspx

;)

I aware of Orbea-usa. Unfortunately, to me at least, the Diem Drop Disc is not available in the US. Or this blind guy can't find it on the US website.

I understand but disagree. I know a lot of roadies never park their nice bikes and they aren't at real risk of being stolen. Same with MTB's. Riders put them in their truck or on their rack, and drive to their destination.

Likely, many are frustrated with bike thefts and won't ride them around town and park them because of that.

But, there's no doubt you can safely lock a good bike in most neighborhoods. Still, more should be done to address this problem. While many will, most people won't spend $50 on a good lock. I'd love to see a locator chip installed in a bike, for instance.

Besides the folks with good locks, there are a lot of folks who work in places where they could store their bikes inside or in a secured area. In that case, a $1000 bike suddenly appears reasonably priced, if it's well equipped and you like riding it. Plus, you aren't spending a lot of cash in gas, and you're getting fit. It's a win-win.

I agree that if the department stores start selling them, the LBS's will to. This will hopefully drive demand up, since these bikes are the kinds of bikes most people need for transportation. That is so key to bike use adaptation by mainstream society. I pray this happens, so it could lead us to less urban sprawl, better physical fitness, a lower weight society, and less dependency on oil.

If they sold it here, I'd buy one of these as my next bike, but I don't see buying a new bike for quite some time, so maybe that's why they don't sell them here...those of us that do commute have already customized the product offerings here into what we want, so they would have to sell them to new commuters. How many of these people would appreciate the virtue of the chain-case, internal hub, hub dyno, lighting etc?

I think we are still years and about $5/gal more than today (ie $8/gal in 2008 dollars) away from these things in the US market.

The trend in car interiors is to make them more and more like rolling living rooms. In a lot of cases, people's cars have more creature comforts than their homes with heated power seats and the like. Another selling point for cars is all the safety features, - air bags, crumple zones, etc. A bike is a total antithesis to this.

It's not for lack of a specialized "commuter bike" that keep people in their cars. Creature comforts aside, I'd bet if you could create a nice bike path that lead straight from every person's garage to their place of work magically negating the need to ride in traffic or through "bad" neighborhoods, you would get more commuters than if you gave everyone the most expensive, well equipped "commuter" bike for free.

It's not about the bikes.

I'm not saying that equipment doesn't matter at all, I'm just saying that by the time someone starts worrying about equipment, they've probably already overcome the major barriers to bicycle commuting.

Sweet... I'll see your magical bike path, and raise you a fairy godmother. She could just float along beside the bike and keep you company.

I'd bet that my fairy godmother would get more commuters than your magical bike path...


:rolleyes:

I already have a fairy godmother that I talk to on my commutes. Thanks anyway.

My point is that I don't believe that marketing the right bike is what will get more people to commute.

In my years of commuting, I've gotten many questions from people who are curious, just think I'm nuts, or maybe contemplating commuting themselves. The most common questions/comments:

1. How far do you ride?
2. Don't you get cold?
3. Don't you get sweaty?
4. I'd be afraid to drive in traffic.
5. What route do you take?
6. What do you do when it's snowy?

I've had some summer commuters ask me about clothing, tires, and lighting when winter started to roll around. Nobody has ever asked me what kind of bike I ride or what kind of bike I think they should get. I don't think that's the hangup for most people. I hardly gave it a thought when I first started commuting. I just started riding what I had.

Did I mention that the magical path is running through a climate controlled forcefield?

It's not the bikes.

I don't either, but I do think that marketing the right bike will get people who have already decided to commute to spend more money - which is all they really care about right?

I just saw a 8 speed retro white walled beach crusier, complete with a rear rack and fenders for $90. it was pretty cool......but so ins my 7.5FX

In my business there are people who more focused on the mission, and there are people who are more focused on the bottom line. Both see one as aiding the other to different degrees. I imagine it's the same for those involved in the making and selling of cycling goods.

So I would guess that there are those who really care about making a good bike for commuting. And I would guess that there are those who just want to make something that sells.

Please furnish a program so I won't have to guess who those caring marketeers are who are making the "good bike for commuting" and who is making the commuting bike that sells but is no good?

I believe that's what the OP attempted to do. At least he listed what he feels the good choices are.

Is there an overriding point to your posts, or do you just like to be contrary?

It's OK either way. Sometimes I just like the debate too.

Thanks very much for pointing this out, I appreciate it very much. I made 2 corrections and will check with Schwinn to find out what the actual brake spec is on the Coffee/Cream.

Oh yeah, I do like to debate with the Group Thinkers mired in their own Conventional Wisdom about Real Commuting and Serious Cyclists. Unfortunately they prefer to ignore the argument and instead seek only discussion that is the equivalent of electronic group hugging.

I think I made the point that a far less expensive bike than the very nice bikes suggested by the OP would be just as suitable for the typical short distance commuter or utility cyclist. These bikes (simple one and 3 speeds with fenders, chainguards and kickstands) were at every bike retailer until the 70's when they were dropped like hot potatos for the latest marketing fad. Reintroduction and promotion at the department store outlets of those old fashioned low tech bikes that I previously mentioned would greatly expand the availability of bikes that were seen as practical for the intended purpose to the vast majority of the public (who choose never to set foot in an LBS.) Or have set foot inside an LBS and saw nothing that seemed to be worth their money for their intended purpose and everything they could desire if the intended purpose of a bike purchase was to ride in a peloton on the next club century ride.

I don't think the bikes you get from Target or Walmart today are as good as the bikes that Sears sold 30 or 40 years ago. We used to buy cheap bikes for our kids figuring they'd only use them for a year or two before they out grew them, but no more. It's not like the frames are going to suddenly disintegrate or anything but the assembly is so shoddy that we've had things come loose or come off both of my son's first bikes while he was riding them. I've seen bikes on display at Target with their forks on backwards. I've seen neighbor kid bikes with their forks on backwards.

If you're mechanically inclined and give a 'Mart bike a good going over before anyone rides it, they'e probably workable, but I'd hesitate to recommend one who expects a problem free ride into work several times a week.

The next step up from a 'Mart is a sporting goods store and that might be a good compromise between LBS and 'Mart except that I only see MTBs and Hybrids sold in those places.

I do agree that a 27 or 30 speed bike is probably overkill for a short commute and may be undesirable for anyone who doesn't really get bicycle gearing which I suspect is at least 70% of the public. A nice 1X8 would work well for them. Personally I don't think a 3 speed offers enough gear selection to be very helpful.

[QUOTE=tjspiel;6111712]I don't think the bikes you get from Target or Walmart today are as good as the bikes that Sears sold 30 or 40 years ago. We used to buy cheap bikes for our kids figuring they'd only use them for a year or two before they out grew them, but no more. It's not like the frames are going to suddenly disintegrate or anything but the assembly is so shoddy that we've had things come loose or come off both of my son's first bikes while he was riding them. I've seen bikes on display at Target with their forks on backwards. I've seen neighbor kid bikes with their forks on backwards.

snipQUOTE]

I don't think that's what ILTB-2 was saying.

The quality might be worse, but it's the features that make a bike useful for transportation. If Wally World offered bikes with appropriate features, I agree that others like LBS's would follow suit. It's flat out amazing that they offer such inexpensive bikes up for mountain biking, which have lots of features for that. I bet they could offer up a decently equipped transportation bike for $100 if they wanted. Even a single speed would be nice, if it came with fenders, a rack, kickstand, and bell. It would be useful for students. But they don't.

They're fake features though, put there for show.

My biggest problem with this conversation is the idea that people are hoping for walmart to solve the problem. And the refusal to admit the low-quality, disposable nature of their products.

Yes, they could make and sell anything they want to. They choose not to though, which is exactly the reason I do not go there.

And just so ILTBeanelitist doesn't have to say it... yes, I AM too good to shop at walmart, and take pride in the fact that I refuse to support them.

And the LBS' are full of bikes made to order for you (and your similar thinking comrades); just not for the majority of the public who might be interested in a simple, relatively inexpensive bike for typical bicycle commuting/utility activity. But that's OK, your needs are taken care of, eh?

Target at least does sell cruisers with fenders and chain guards. It looks like they have eyelets for racks. I've also seen them at bike shops.

My impression from ILTB-2's postings is that he's not terribly concerned with what's sold an LBS because most folks don't get their bikes there anyway.

To me reliability is key to anything used for transportation as opposed to an occasional ride in the park. That's what worries me about 'Mart bikes.

FWIW, here's the "commuting" lineup from the LBS I usually get my parts from:

http://thehubbikecoop.org/itemlist.c...=63&startRow=1

Adjusting for inflation, the Bianchi Milano would have cost about $80 in 1970

Most people don't shop at LBS for good reason, the products available on the showroom floor and promoted by the sales staff don't meet their needs. I would like very much if LBS offered bikes similar to what could have been found until the 70's at any LBS in the US and still is found in Europe. But the LBS retailers have abandoned the market for bikes that they are not interested in selling, just like US manufacturers abandoned the market for small economical cars (even high priced luxury models) to the Aisian companies. At least the US car retailers don't push their potential customers in the market for "undesirable" small cars to Walmart or the department stores; the US branded dealer offer the small cars by partnering/buying the franchises for the small car manufacturers and don't let the customer leave without showing some kind of product of interest.

Background info:
I bought my 1972 Raleigh Sports 3 speed at a Philadelphia LBS new for $82; bought a new 1976 Raleigh Superbe 3 speed from another Phila LBS for $142. Obviously they would be cost more in 2007 $$ but much less than the product displayed in the OP and with no sacrifice in quality. I bought ( in 2000 or 2001) my current commute bike at a German department store for DM 286 (the equivalent of $135 at the time) equipped with Sachs/SRAM seven speed, coaster hub, front hand brake, full fenders, chainguard, kickstand dynamo lights, bell, and rear rack. I now have over 25,000 all weather miles on it. Commuting bikes do not HAVE to be high priced to be GOOD and Reliable for commuting. The last bike I commuted on in Germany (for 3 1/2 years) is similar to my current bike but equipped with a Sachs Torpedo 3 speed rather than 7 speed cost DM400 ($215) in 1999 at the local Opel Dealership which had a small bike sales shop inside. Still use that one for around town, still an excellent bike for around town. Seems every German commuter, cycling in the city, of all ages and sizes, rode similar bikes. On the weekends the club riders would make their appearances on more flashy rigs outside of town.

I too have noticed and ranted about LBSs in America verses say Oulu, Finland... where the latter carried a nice range of bikes including Trek and Marin, but the floor was full of daily rider bikes that were built to be ridden daily and take the abuse... AND they came ready equipped for day to day rigors... having built in headlights, fenders, locks and baskets... the most expensive of which was 485 US dollars... and it had every bell and whistle.

BTW there was not a bit of lycra available in the shop... Helmets they did have. So often today in American LBSs, the first thing you confront is a huge clothing line, and behind that, "plastic" bikes.

There are quite a few desirable commuting bikes on that web site, and priced right too. Is there a good selection of those models on the floor of the shop? Unfortunately I think your LBS is a rare breed. I have read of a few other LBS that actuall ypromote the sale of such bikes, but not many. Hopefully they are not all special order at your LBS with a long wait time and used as bait to sell available product that the salesmen are really interested in.

Perhaps our wise Forum members can inform us if their LBS also have a similar selection of reasonably priced full fender, bikes designed for city commuting actually on the floor ready for sale?

Well... I'm an unwise idiot. Here is my two cents.
The answer is....
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.
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no.

I frequent a few fairly large LBSs in the Denver metro area.
It does not bother me since I prefer to add my own accessories. For others I think it would be a nice if they did stock a few affordable models outfitted like a commuter. Whether they would sell or not is the real question.

To be honest I haven't noticed because it's not the type of bike I drool over. I go there for parts and to see what's in their "salvage yard". I'm curious now and I'll stop by sometime this week to see. It wouldn't surprise me if they did have those models on the floor because the place is run by, and caters to, people who live on their bikes as opposed to weekend warriors. That's why I like it. Pretty much the first thing you see when you walk in is a wall filled with racks and bags.

Even so, I suspect not many people buy the "commuter" bikes. There are two people in our neighborhood that own cruisers. Both were purchased for reasons of fashion and image rather than utility. One of the folks bought a pink and white one with white sidewalls because she likes the retro look. The other person likes the Euro look of his and rides it wearing a twead jacket and flat cap.

Neither bike is ridden much more than a few times a season from what I can tell.

Cycling is a popular in Minneapolis and there are LBSes all over the place. This one and a couple of others are geared more towards the transportational cyclist. Others have their own niche markets. If a city has a healthy number of commuters, there's more likely to be an LBS set up to serve them.

On their main page is a "news" section talking about a new line of commuter bikes coming this spring. There's a couple of links and one of them takes you here. The smaller pictures of the bike in action are taken in an area that happens to be along my commute.

I think I would like that shop too.

How much do you think those models, especially the Rohloff equipped one, will cost?

That route hardly looks like the kind of route that justifies that kind of high tech (presumably high priced)bike except for the bonus poseur points and bragging rights for upscale choosy commuters like some of our pals on BF. I have an old Columbia 3 speed that I picked up for $5 at a garage sale (with good tires no less) that would be ideal if theft was a consideration along that route. ;) My wife's $5 1960 AMF Hercules 3 speed should also handle a route like that quite well.