I am looking for a fast all-rounder STEEL frameset for commuting and city riding. I would like something quick and responsive but not too race oriented. I need something stable enough for occasionally carrying a light load but zippy enough to zoom around corners and in and out of traffic. Two framesets I have been checking out are the Surly Pacer and Soma Smoothie ES. I want to keep the price below $650.00 for the frame and fork. One last note ; If you are going to suggest the surly cross-check and LHT, and Soma double cross, or salso casseroll, I have already marked these OFF the list because of fit and style.

What about the fit and style turns you off of these frames?

How about the Salsa La Raza?

I am 6'1 and my measurement are quite unique. I have a long inseam (35.5) and a short torso and arm length reach. This makes finding the right frame fit challenging. With the frames I have marked off my list, the top tubes in comparison to the seat tubes that are my size are too long and leave me way too stretched out over the bike. The usual suggestion are just to use a short stem, but I would have to shorten to the point of affecting the steering. The other would be size down the seat tube length and add spacers to the steerer to get the right height. Well doing this would require more spacers than I would like or put me at an awkward over aggresive angle.

Jamis Codas are steel and would do what you ask if you'd be willing to go with off the rack.

That's definitely on the right track. The geometry leans more to my dimensions.

Excellent line of bikes, but I am actually selling 2006 Jamis Coda Sport frameset on Ebay right now. I used this bike for 6 months and realized the top tube was too way too long for me and also I wanted a more traditional road oriented frame with drop bars.

Definitely more expensive than your budget but I thought I'd throw it out there nonetheless:

Gunnar Sport

EDIT: I have the same issue as you. I'm 6'4" and have a slightly shorter torso than the average 'tall guy'. The only option that was truly satisfactory to me was a custom-sized bike, a decision I will never regret.

I just got a new one built (waiting on my new crank arm from Ritchey)...so naturally I recommend them to everyone!

Kogswell P/R

viva la raza!

I know that you're looking for a new frame, but you will find that MANY of the 80's steel sport touring frames had relatively short top tubes in the taller sizes. I once had a 23" Schwinn Traveler, 25" Schwinn Traveler, 25" Schwinn Voyageur, and 26" Raleigh something-or-other all with matching 57cm top tubes. The Schwinns were 4130 steel (just like Surly).

These types of frames aren't as easy to snag cheaply from eBay as they used to be, but it might be worth looking. Some folks consider the 1" threaded headsets to be a drawback, but otherwise they'll fit just about any modern components.

As for modern frames, I bought a Surly Karate Monkey that's a little long in the top tube for my reach. Nashbar's Trekking bars seem to give me a nice, closer position. Not quite a "fast road position", but it works for me.

Tom

PS - I apologize for mixing measurement units but the frame sizes are based on the manufacturer's sizing and the top tube is based on my own measurement.

Planet-x Kaffenback ...... not a bad overall ride

[QUOTE=gulfcoast;6205929]I am looking for a fast all-rounder STEEL frameset for commuting and city riding.

You can get a custom frame, fork and headset from Marinoni for about 750$. The Fango is a great all around bike.

surly xcheck or other road frame and a nitto albatross bar?

The TT on the Xcheck is not any longer than any other bike I've ridden that has decent handling. Most road style frames are square-ish in geometry (ST vs TT). If you used the albatross bar you would move the hand position back without having to use a very-short stem.

Look at the two pics below of a traditional road bar vs albatross bar

I'm puzzled how a short stem can be a handling problem (as alluded to by the OP) if Albatross bars handle fine. They seem to - people love them.

Seems to me the albatross is functionally identical to a short stem, in that the same mechanical effect would be had with a bar shaped like an I and zero-length stem. It's kind of irrelevant that there is stem and bar out forward, when all that counts mechanically is the hand position relative to the pivot.

I have an albatross coming and I'm itching to get it - since my position on a straight bar is too low and forward right now... I'll see what the handling difference is.

These are the fit characteristics of frames designed for female riders, who are typically longer in the leg and shorter in the torso -- and thus are uncomfortably stretched forward on a frame designed for the prototypical male build. Men tend to be relatively long in the torso for their corresponding leg length, and hence when you put a woman on a man's bike that fits her inseam, the top tube is way too long for her upper body. As you note, the typical response of the bike industry (at least until Georgina Terry came along) has been to prescribe a short stem and/or saddles shoved forward on the rails. You may only truly find satisfaction on a well-designed custom frame. Short of that, you may have to live with the short stem solution or maybe look at a frame designed for a tall woman -- or go with a hybrid or mountain frame that is designed with that short cockpit length to achieve an upright riding position. (btw - I certainly mean no offense in making the comparison).

Thanks for the suggestions.

Bianchi volpe?

One thing about the Gunnar; they will do custom sizing. So getting a good
fit would not be an issue.

A road oriented hybrid converted to drop bars may be a cheaper solution to custom. I am in the same boat. I think that I would benefit from a 58 cm seat tube and 56 cm top tube. I really hesitate to buy a custom bike to find out.

+1
I love my La Raza. It's been a fantastic frameset.

I am getting SO itchy for spring now that I stripped the old Bianchi to build up the La Raza. (I got other bikes for the snow, salt and muck of winter!) Just got to get the replacement crank arm and either cut the steerer tube or reswizzle the spacers...and then I'll REALLY be jonesing!

^^^
You know I was going to leave you my La Raza in my will.
Guess you are out of luck and I'm off your hit list.

I've got a Jamis Nova, and it's a great steel all-rounder. Not sure if they just sell the frameset, but it's worth looking into. As of 2008, what used to be the Jamis Nova is now sold, with some modifications, as the Jamis Aurora Elite.

You could also consider Steelwool. Their Tweed is a really nice-looking frameset — I like the eccentric bottom bracket.