da07079

I run Ultra Gatorskins -- and carry two spare tubes, patch kit, CO2 and a pump. (I'll worry about the weight in the panniers when I've gotten rid of the extra weight on the rider.)

My commute through the lovely streets of Newark NJ takes me over enough crap that I get a flat every couple of months, even with the tires inflated to 120. Glass usually isn't a problem -- it's the needle-like pieces of steel (from the steel belts of shredded tires, I think).

Kojak

If we're talking about the Marathon Plus tires; they can be a bear to mount. It really depends on the rim that the tire is being married to. Some people say they mount them without tools..... I'm not going to get into a thumb wrestling match with any of these people. The sidewalls are pretty stiff, and the puncture protection system that's built into the carcass makes manipulating the tire as you mount it fairly difficult. However, if you want a tire that's as close to flat-proof as you can get (that is in fact a pneumatic tire) the Marathon Plus is unsurpassed. It's heavy, and it's not sexy looking, but it's a very puncture resistant tire.
I have nothing against the Gatorskins, I've used them myself and had very good luck with them, but they are not nearly as puncture resistant as the Marathon Plus.

This is the testimonial from the posts on our website that I like best:

my bike was vandalized today -
i think they tried to steal parts but were unable - so they just kicked in my wheel
lost a few spokes —- still rolls fairly true
get this - they tried to slash the tire with a knife —- fail. that is nuts.
nice tires - would have meant a fairly long walk
very nice investment —- although i may need to patch it up —-
any ideas on … fixing a knife cut ?

dwr1961

I live in extreme goathead country... Thus I have extensive experience in flat repair (mine that of and other riders'). From my empirical research I have made the following findings:

Most goathead resistant tire: Schwalbe Marathon Plus
Best tire liner: Spinskins (only moderately effective)
Worst tire liner: Slime liners (just a thick piece of plastic - save your money)
Best patches: Rema (conventional) Park GP-2 (gluelss - btw, the ONLY decent glueless type)
Best pump for high pressure: Lezyne Micro Floor Drive HP
Best mini pump: Lezyne Alloy Drive

I'm not trying to start an argument; just sharing what has worked the best for me.

I always carry a spare tube, patch kit, levers and pump...

Johan13

I use armidillos. I carry a pump and a spare tube. Havent had a flat yet, probably travelled 2k kms on my bike.

CliftonGK1

Gatorskins on one bike, Randonneur-Cross on the other. Both 700 x 28, and I carry 2 tubes, Park GP2 patches, steel levers, and a Road Morph G pump. Getting stranded 100k from a finish line, in the middle of the night, would suck

froze

Depends on how far you ride. If your only riding within a mile or two from home then why carry a bunch of crap when you can easily walk home, and by the time you fixed the flat you would be home anyways!

But if your a serious rider riding serious distances then you need to take serious precautions. I use to live in the Palmdale, Lancaster and Bakersfield California area where thorns and espescially goatheads would make even the Gatorskin flinch and flat...though the Armadillos did not flinch. Even with using the Armadillos I still carried a new ultralight racing tube in it's box, a ultralight racing tire tightly folded, 6 glueless patches, and a tire boot. Why did I carry all that stuff? Because in remote areas where I rode cell phones didn't work, and your 25 miles or more from home thus a walk would be a daunting task not alone combating the intense heat of those desert areas. Even though I'm married, my wife is not my mother, so I make sure that I can repair most common problems. I've only had to call her twice in the 29 years we've been married, once for severe diarrhea (even the Amonia AD I carried didn't help!), and the other was I was in the hospital after an accident.

I always tried to repair any flat first before going to the new tube. The spare tire is there because I've experience total destruction of a tire; and the tire boot is in case of a small partial destruction of the tire, then I would try to fix it first before using the new tire. Worst comes to worst you can always stuff a tire without the tube with leaves and weeds but I've never had to go to that extreme.

Also carry a mini tool like the Park MTB3, a small cheap folding pair of pliers, and obviously carry tire irons. Those tools are essentials. I carry other stuff but only because I want to for peace of mind.

imi

This goathead thing... Someone posted a picture of them in another thread... They look like nasty stuff the military dream about... so... I'm going to be touring up and down CA (up inland, down the coast LA to LA), next winter, spending a lot of time in the national parks (Joshua Tree, Death Valley)... This is goathead country right?


EDIT: oops sorry, thought I was in the touring forum :/ question ok 'though?
BTW I won't be commuting for 3 months as I'll be on vacation then (just thought I'd share

froze

All those areas you mentioned including a vast area that surrounds them, yep, goathead city. There are two ways you can prevent flat hassles. If your going to riding a mtb type of tire with low air pressure (below 65psi) then Slime tubes could work and and invest in a set of tough smooth mtb tires (smooth if your staying on the road, less rolling resistence). However with high pressure road tires Slime doesn't hold, the pressure just blows the sealant out so fast your flat; you could pump up to 60 psi and it will hold but then your subject to snake bite flats. With road bike doing the kind of riding your going to do, the Armadillo is the best insurance. If your going to be using a bigger touring tire, the Conti Top Touring and the Schwalbe Marathon or Marathon Plus are excellent tough tires.

I also had goatheads penetrate Mr Toughies, so I am not a big fan of those. And as I said before Conti Gatorskins were no match for Goatheads.

Wanderer

Surely, you jest!

In our area, a flat repair kit, and a spare tube, are a requirement. Going to Schwalbe Marathon Supremes, with ultra flat protection, is the best move I ever made, as I used to average a flat every 2.5 days, or, every 100 miles.... I never use anything but my fingers to mount, and didn't have a problem.

That being said, nothing makes me more happy, than to know the "cement" in my patch kit is drying out.

But, I can buy more! A patch kit is small, don't tempt Mrs Fate!

daven1986

With my armadillos 700x23 I have had no flats in over 1000miles, with my armadillo nimbus 700x35 I have had no flats in over 2000miles. I carry a spare tube but no patch kit.

I find them to grip well, but ride harshly however I don't think I'd use any other tyre.

dwr1961

Froze is preaching the Gospel here... Must have spent some time out west.

Take notes, because he is exactly right. You WILL run into those nasty thorns, and they CAN penetrate almost anything. Being unprepared - especially in the high desert (where I lived for 17 years) - will lead to some real tests of character (and vocabulary).

Slime is very effective at lower pressures, and Marathon Plus tires have such a thick belt that goatheads simply can't penetrate to the tube. Armadillos will lessen - but not eliminate - thorn-induced flats.

Goathead country cyclists who choose to run different setups get very good at flat repair (I'm VERY good at fixing flats). Enjoy the beauty of the desert - and may you be flat-free!

imi

Thank you froze and dwr61! Any reason not to go for Conti Touring Plus 32s on my 700 wheels (they're available in my LBS here in sweden)... Anything else? tougher tubes? I reckon a foldable lighter spare would make sense in case of total tire ripout to get me to a bike shop... suggestions (I'd pick this up in LA). Metal tyre levers, puncture kit, good pump of course...

sorry for the hijack, but maybe this goathead info is relevant to the thread as a whole...

stringbreaker

If we lived in a perfect world where there was no debris of any kind on the road I'd say heck yeah don't carry a patch kit or spare tube but we don't so, do. I carry two spare tubes and a patch kit. Not only for me but in case I happen upon you or some other unfortunate soul on the road I can help you out when (and I do mean when) you get a flat. I have a pump too so you are all set.

destikon

I just got some new tires, the armadillo. To deal the the harsh ride that everyone talks about I jumped up a size to 700X35. They ride great. Very comfortable and deal with road incidentals well. I do feel just a tad bit of rolling resistance compared to my old tires though (bontrager nebula 700X32). But the nebula's were CRAP.

GreenRiver

I've been running armadillos's for about 3 years and have had 2 flats; in both cases small piece of narrow gauge wire was the culprit. I carry my repair kit in a wedge pack.

dwr1961

I hope our commuting brethren will forgive the mild hijack...

I would strongly recommend the Marathon Plus tires -even if you have to order them from elsewhere or get some in Los Angeles when you arrive. They are just plain "thicker" in the belt area than anything else - and that's why they stop goatheads. No other reason. No other tire that I am aware of offers nearly the same protection. On the negative side, you might really need those metal tire levers - MP can be a tough tire to mount depending on your rim.

Goatheads are needle-sharp and strong. They will even penetrate Kevlar. That's why 'Spinskins" don't work as advertised. If you ever step on one while barefoot, it will get your attention.

Sounds like you will have a great tour. Remember it DOES actually rain in California (mostly December through March), so bring your wet weather gear.

froze

I used the Armadillo All Conditon 700x26 in the desert areas of California and went for about 12,000 miles without a flat...I didn't go 12,000 miles on the same tires, they lasted about 3,000 to 3,500 miles; I think a combination of extreme pavement heat and rougher then normal pavement shortened the wear life of these tires, because some on this forum got about 6,000 miles. In fact the first flat I had was when one of the tires wore to the cord! Also those Armadillos have the best sidewall penetration protection as well; I personally tested the sidewalls ruggedness when the one went flat I rode it flat for 5 miles slowly and they never scrubbed away like others would have nor damaged the rim.

If your going to be touring, you need to make sure you carry a spare tire, I have a ultralight folding tire AND a spare tube in its box (you probably should carry two tubes + a tire) along with 6 glueless patches and a boot patch. I like riding into remote areas but one needs to be prepared when your a lot more then 25 miles from home and in an area where cell phones don't work. I always try to fix stuff first before replacing with the backups. You should also carry two air pumps in case one breaks.

And DWR1961 is correct about the kevlar tires and SpinSkins. That stuff is just selling propaganda. Goatheads just seperate the fibers and penetrate that stuff like butter; thats why kevlar bullet proof vest won't stop a arrow. Oh yes I stepped on those buggers barefoot too and it ain't fun! Needless to say don't walk barefoot.

Being stuck in the desert this time of the year could result in severe hear exhaustion and death, then the high desert gets real cold at night and hyperthermia becomes a death issue as well. So you can have 100 degree weather during the day and low 40's at night and sometimes even 30's; people go hiking prepared for the heat but not the cold and die out there. So make sure you pack clothes that can keep you warm in case your out there after daylight ends. And don't forget the water or in my case diluted Gatorade!!! I carried 3 24oz Polar bottles and a 70oz Camelback for 4 to 6 hour day rides. If your interested in how to keep the water cool post back.

froze

If your touring you'll need to go to any fast food place and just fill the bottles and the Camelbak with ice and water, ask permission first I've never had any problem, then add some powdered Gatorade and shake. From the house you can frige a pitcher of 50% diluted Gatorade overnight, at the same time fill 1 24oz Polar bottle with 50% diluted Gatorade and place it in the freezer (leave about 1 inches for expansion), a couple of minutes before the ride you fill one Polar bottle with ice cubes then add the chilled liquid; then fill your Camelbak with ice cubes and add the drink. As you ride you drink first from the non iced bottle, this will stay cool in 90 degree weather for about 45 min to 1 hour which by that time your finished with it anyway, then you drink from the ice cubed bottle which will remain cold for about 2 to 2 1/2 hours into the ride, then you drink from the bottle that was frozen solid and that one will be cold for about 3 to 3 1/2 hours into the ride, then drink from the Camelbak.

In the desert you need to keep your core body temp down, so if your touring just run into a fast food place and get ice whenever you can. I've done that lots of times and never was turned down, and besides usually by the time I needed a cold drink I also needed food so it worked out good. But any time I didn't need food and just wanted ice and water there was never a problem. They understand when they see you on a bike and it's hot outside.

Sun exposure could also be a problem if your skin is not use to it, so wear a good sunscreen with high UVA/B rating that won't sweat away, and reapply it about every 2 hours or so especially on the arms and legs. My skin didn't really need sunscreen because I lived in that region and grew accustomed to the sun, and I have olive skin which doesn't burn as rapidly as most white people, and besides I found sunscreen made my skin feel hotter.

Also up in the high desert you get a wind from the west that starts to kick up around 2pm. Sometimes it can get real intense and sandstorms will get ripping...hunker down in those because riding will impossible; fortunately those occur only about once or twice a year so the chances are you won't encounter one. But you might encounter a dust devil, don't cross paths with one because some can be strong enough to blow you off the road. AND speaking of off the road, DON'T let your bike go off the road because the sand, even at the edge of the road, is so soft and loose your bike will carve deep into it and flip you. Cars even flip in that stuff if the person over corrects, or they just get stuck! Even my mtb with wide knobby tires was no match for that sand and even my 4 wheel drive I had then could get stuck if I didn't keep my speed up. Last 10 years or so they've been spraying the sand on the side of some of the roads with oil? but it doesn't work real well.

dwr1961

Wow, Froze... I almost miss the High Desert after that post.

For you future desert travelers, I have another tip for you: Ride early. And I mean very early. Due to being at the easternmost part of the Pacific time zone, the Mojave Desert begins to see daylight as early as 4:30a.m. at this time of the year (June). From dawn through mid-morning there is generally NO wind and the temps range from 40F at daybreak to 80F by 10 or 11a.m. That is the awesome, magical time to ride. The sky is generally a crystal, clear blue and visibility is good from first light. Have a good pair of sunglasses - preferably polarized - because the light is intense and can really reflect off the pavement.

Final tip: Don't forget your sunblock.

Hey, Froze - Thanks for the memories!

rumrunn6

about cold water - I've read that drinking cold water can be counterproductive because the body will try to equalize the temperature (warm it up) and in so doing expend energy and calories doing so. really, it's a watse of time and energy to keep water cold and to drink cold water when you are so hot. you would be better served by simple hydration methods including concuming correct electrolytes and other important minerals with all the water you will be streaming through your system

I did a quick search for proper hydration for extended exercise in the desert:

https://books.google.com/books?id=L1o...esult&resnum=1

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science...fd02bb12836f2e

maddyfish

Gatorskins here, I carry a tube, flat kit and pump. And have used them more than once.

froze

Not sure what those two web sites were trying to say but they had nothing on cold vs warm liquids.

Your normal core temperture is about 98.6 but during excercise it can go to 102 and more during hot days, you need to reduce this somewhat by drinking cold or cool liquids.

https://www.gatorteams.com.au/visitor.../hotsummer.asp

Read the above web sites tip box on the right, it talks about it being cool but not icey cold, however by doing what I said earlier in preparing the drinks, by the time you get to the bottles the drink is cool. My definition of cold was not freezing but refrig cold which corresponds to the tip box.

Also read this: https://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadin...orn/camel.html Very good test on this matter.

curbtender

Well, had a flat on my Armadillo today. A piece of glass about 1cm shaped like an arrowhead punctured all the way through and was still stuck in the tube when I dismounted the tire. I booted the tire and replaced the tube. The tire is a gone-er.

unixpro

Of course I do. I also carry a pretty reasonable tool kit, a bunch of zip-ties, and a roll of duct tape. Seriously. I've had occasion to use all of them at one time or another. Oh, and in addition to the Armadillos I use tire liners.

There's a big, big difference between flat-resistant and flat-proof.

hairnet

carry all your stuff in a saddle wedge and you never have to think about flat tires ever again.