KimPossible

A lot of good responses and questions.

I have worked at my company for 13 years and so the dangers I speak of are not media induced stereotypes. Our production manager was carjacked in front of our building, the gang unit has real presence in our area. There are two bars 2 blocks over and in the last year there as been 4 shootings all resulting in death. So as far as imagined vs real, I'd say it's real. Now, having said that, most of this crime is gang related and obviously I'm not in a gang. Also, the presence of the gang unit, officer patrol and community invovlement has greatly reduced the crime in this area. But even with all it's bad, I still love this area. It's a very eclectic mix.

To be honest, I agree with harrnjos. The path that I ride, especially with winter coming on worries me more than the streets. It is very secluded and there are very long stretches before you come to a trail head. Which do you pick? The safety of no traffic or the safety of being seen.

After I read back over this post, it may have seemed like I was overly worried and that really isn't the case. There is nothing I hate more than that whole "damsel in distress" attitude. I didn't mean to convey myself in that manner. I just found it odd that the majority of posters seemed to think that women do not ride because of vanity, laziness, ect. I really feel that most women are more worried about safety; personal, traffic, ect. I was also shocked at myself for not thinking more about my habits and how I my actions could be a contributing factor to a possible bad situation. Shame on me.

Indie

I have never heard it put that well from a man or a woman. It's not that we don't appreciate input from men, but it can be a bit insulting to have someone telling you there's no danger just because he hasn't experienced the danger. It's no skin off your nose to just acknowledge that some people face trouble that you don't, just because of something arbitrary like sex or race or orientation, and that it's not easy to fix.

Back to the topic: I take the same precautions on my bike that I do as a pedestrian -- stay in well-lit areas and preferably well-populated ones, and be aware of where people are so that I can see if anyone's approaching me (which I hope everyone's doing on a bike anyways!). In a park I could probably make a point of riding more than a hockey-stick's-length away from thick shrubbery that I can't see into.

I don't carry any kind of weapon. I suspect that pulling out a gun or a can of pepper spray would waste a lot of time that I could be using to get away, at least when I'm on a bike. I have taken martial arts lessons and I think I'd feel more confident with my hands free than fumbling with a weapon, but that's just me.

Indie

A damsel in distress sits around and waits for a man to come save her. You're asking for advice on how to keep that from happening, and not leaving it all up to someone else. You're the farthest thing from a damsel in distress.

JusticeZero

I do practice martial arts, I have taken some hits, and i'd like to note this fact that women don't seem to grasp: A hit to the groin really doesn't have any major effect for maybe twenty, thirty seconds, possibly more. If you're relaxed then sure, it's pretty immediate, but any attacker is not relaxed. Under those circumstances, all you feel is a dull, minor ache for about half of a minute with the knowledge that you really need to finish whatever mayhem you were doing before it actually starts to hurt.
It's also a difficult target to hit. It's behind legs, and any stepping is probably going to close it. All you have to do is turn your front toe inward and it might as well be behind your rib cage.
Confidence and the knowledge that one is capable of fighting back are more important than false theories of where to throw a dainty kick, probably before falling down in apology for hurting them. If you don't act like a victim, you don't look like a good target, and they'll look for someone else who isn't a risk.

Catgrrl70

"...Based on this, I would like to ask the readers out there who live in large metropolitan areas or have to ride in less than safe areas, how they go about protecting themselves. What is your plan if something happened?

Do you carry pepper spray?
A firearm?
Are you trained in martial arts?
Do you think you could just out ride someone chasing you?"

I ride in a busy metro area, daily, all year. I have never felt personally vulnerable and worry more about vehicles and jaywalking peds all the time. I don't have a plan, but carry a cell phone and stay very aware of my surroundings. There's only one part of my commute where less than savoury characters can be encountered, but I'm aware of that and my "escape" routes if anything should happen. Luckily, no part of my commute is without a highly trafficked roadway, pretty much at all hours.

No, I do not carry a weapon of any sort, nor do I have martial arts training. Yes, if that person was on foot I could out race them, and if it's one of the referenced unsavoury characters, yes, I can outride them too. I've seen the bikes they use and the poor physical shape they are in. I am not concerned about fellow bike commuters.

I have female and male friends who could easily bike to work if they wanted to (they have good bikes and are physically active). Their #1 reason for not doing so is safety. #2 is pure laziness. And they will admit this.

JusticeZero

I don't worry at all. I stay OFF the paths and ON the road where people can see me; i'm honestly more worried about being attacked by wild animals than by human beings when moving. A moving bicycle isn't exactly easy to size up and then attack.

genec

OK, I just jumped into this thread... I have not read the entire thread at all... it was just this comment I am addressing. I just returned from Fort Worth where I was raised... I still have family there and go back from time to time to visit.

One big item of talk was regarding home break-ins and why you should have a gun. I thought this was quite interesting. There was an article in the local paper about a home invasion and how the home owner wrestled the shotgun from the intruder and managed to shoot him. There were other articles in the paper about other home invasions. Apparently this sort of thing happens often enough so that Texans are paranoid... and many carry guns.

Now not to turn this into a gun discussion, but I couldn't help but wonder if that gun toting mentality was perhaps the reason so many guns are involved in crimes there.

I also speculated that air conditioning played a part. The climate is such that everyone keeps their houses closed up, with blinds drawn and the AC on high... that means you are not likely to hear or see traffic on the streets or someone breaking into the neighbor's house. I couldn't help but wonder if that "isolation" contributed to the potential for home invasions.

The last aspect is isolation... distances between homes, or between towns can be quite great in Texas... it is a big state. The corner store may be a mile away. That real isolation can lead to a situation where a stranger sees an advantage in being able to "do no good" without witnesses.

So there could be several reasons for "Texas Paranoia..." and indeed there was a certain sense of "I'm gonna protect mine" that seemed common place. Whether this is justified or not, I really don't know.

JayTee705

The way the OP poses the her query raises a number of interesting issues, but, for now, I'd like to ask: What have you done to ensure your safety for the past 13 years when 1) driving in the area and 2) when walking in the area? (I'm presuming the "sketchy" area is near your place of work?)

To be sure, driving, biking and walking are all different in terms of personal safety issues, but the strategies one needs to employ aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

Cheers,

JT

P.S. As for the TKD guy who says getting kicked in the nuts doesn't hurt immediately, may I humbly suggest that that's because a TKD guy was doing the kicking? (...just a little martial arts smack talk.:>) ...but seriously, if you kick hard enough, there are a lot of targets that will buy you useful time during an attack, but theory and practice aren't always the same thing...)

KimPossible

I know what you mean about the animals. The Trinity Trail system here covers a lot of miles. On one of my regular routes, there is a cattle ranch that runs along the edge. On occasion they get loose. I was raised around cattle and they're not nearly as dangerous as they are stupid. So every time they get out we have to get off and walk through them so they don't walk out in front of us. We also have a family of skunks. I have a feeling my days are numbered with that bunch!

Rosie8

KimPossible, I've been a lifelong walker (my mom didn't drive & dad was in the Air Force away from home a lot). While walking, I have had a car load of guys stop & demand I get in or they would shoot me. I gracefully declined and said "You'll just have to shoot." I walked away with no consequences. I have also been tapped on the shoulder while walking and asked for the time. When I turned around it was a guy dressed as a vampire - not Halloween either. The list goes on. There is always danger. I usually laugh it off and go my merry way, but stay alert.

I was stopped while riding my bike by a guy in a van asking directions. I immediately went around to the middle of the street & rode by saying - "Don't know." I felt danger so hightailed it out of there. Trust your instincts. I don't carry a weapon but tend to run/ride fast if I feel creeped out.

Big_e

First of all, I have to say that the way you train is the way you will react. A plan is better than none at all. Don't plan to stand and fight. Make your plan be to get away. MY friends may call me Big_E but at 5'7 I'm really not that big. I'd rather run than stand and fight.
Carry a can of HALT. It works on people just as good as animals. The cans are cheap so you can go in your backyard and spray a can at a post or rock just to see how to use it, just go ahead and waste a can.
Keep a can clipped to your bike or backpack strap and practice whipping it out and aiming it. I do this twice before I had off to work each mornings but I prepare for those darned dogs that chase every mornings.
Casually watch your surroundings as you ride. Avoid riding too close to groups of guys, especially if they appear to be up to no good. As a bicyclist you'll be in better shape than most assailants so just use your common sense and see whats around you at stops signs and stop lights.
Keep a cellphone on your person. My cellphone is almost a part of me.
Thats all for now.

ZombieButcher

Apparently You have never been kicked by me. And in honest truth he was probably wearing a cup, but when the adrenaline gets going you can forgo the pain for a bit.

Lizzylou

I don't know that there are fewer female bike commuters for any particular reason other than there are fewer female cyclists in general!

I go out on a group ride every Saturday morning. Many weeks I'll be the only woman there among 15 or 16 guys. And I think the lack of female cyclists in general would be the best explanation for the lack of female commuters. And you can't say that any of the discussed factors would relate when looking at a Saturday morning social ride.

And look at the selection of cycling clothing... there is a reason that there is 4x as much selection in men's jerseys.

KimPossible

1) driving in the area
When driving our shop is only is 2 blocks off the access road and all of that area is industrial except for the few bars I mentioned. From that direction, I am not accessing the seedy edge of downtown.

2) when walking in the area?
We have another shop that is exactly one block away. We all walk or ride back and forth. We have a couple of old hoopity bikes that sit on the dock. Other than that, don't really walk too much in this area.

(I'm presuming the "sketchy" area is near your place of work?)
Yes. I'd say it's about a 2 mile area and there's really not a straight shot out it either. You pretty much have to ride the streets near the county hospital, night shelters, bars, ect. In fact last week they busted one of the drive through beer barns for being a drive through crack house. Geez...

-=(8)=-

Im a ruff tuff he-male and Ive been in a defensive situation 3 times,
one time would have been an unprovoked attack if I didnt ride off
before he could get me. In my house, an angry drunk guy walks in
while we are moving stuff and flips over his girlfriend that is 'sposed to
be in the house. Pulling a shotgun out to urge him out of the house was
what was needed to get him to leave. I am/was a peaceful, stuck in the
summer of luv hippy previous to moving to this savage wasteland known
as South Florida. If you laff at this, how much stuff would it take to convince
you a weapon would give you some comfort ?

macteacher

I don't get it...but where the heck are you people riding? Downtown Baghdad? South Central LA? Are you out late at night? Is it on bike paths/trails? Like someone else said, my only fear are the motorists.. who the heck in broad daylight is going to jump a cyclist? especially if your on the road.

-=(8)=-

Here is where they would:

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/localne...s/gangmap.html

Counting the MINUTES until Im out of here.............

JayTee705

OK, now that I understand the scenario better my opinion is this: I think you need to find a way to end the bicycle portion of your commute at the end of the nice bike path near TCU and take other, suitable transportation to work. (Or find an alternate route in.)

Yes, this may make you "multi-modal" rather than a pure bike commuter, but I think it's unrealistic to think that training, weapons, alertness, etc., will always carry the day if you're traveling in a bad enough area often enough. At some point, the odds may catch up with you.

I say this as someone who has training, weapons and alertness (after enough coffee). Still, I will do what I can to avoid areas when they appear dodgy. Bad guys tend to be lazy in that they target people they think they 1) outnumber, 2) outgun, 3) will surprise. They may be mistaken, but if they're mostly right, things can go south with surprising brutality and speed.

I realize this doesn't seem right or fair, but it is what it is. To be sure, I'd consider all the advice about training, awareness, self-defense tools, etc., but the advice I'd consider the most is the need to avoid dangerous encounters.

I commute daily through a bad part of town. But what I've observed on my particular commute is that Bad Guys like their beauty sleep and are virtually absent during my early ride in. I take the train home, though, as I found out one Friday that the scene is much different in the afternoon.

harrnjos

I really don't feel safe riding on a bike path or sidewalk anymore, both for bike safety and keep from being isolated. All the bike paths around here aren't really safe for cyclists. They have lots of joggers, walkers, kids just learning to ride, moms walking with young children, etc. My road bike, which can go 20+ mph, really doesn't belong in such a setting, ever. Bicycles are vehicles and are safest when defensively on the road, just like driving defensively.

urban rider

I ride my bike to work most days. On the days that I do not ride it is because I have business that does not allow me to ride my bike. Most errands I can do on my bike but on occassion I have to drive. Anyway, last year I rode through a rough area in the city. I work with people who have either an addiction, homeless or mentally ill. Many times it is a combination of all three. Anyway, I did not have a problem with riding. I have learned to change a flat in less than five minutes. During the winter, you really can not tell what my sex is because of the winter clothes I wear. I have several routes that I took to work. The earlist I have ridden in the streets has been 7:30 am and the latest has been 8:00 pm. I never had a problem. I am aware of my surroundings and I tend to ride at a faster pace in the jrough spots, i.e. 19-20 mph instead of 15-16 miles per hour. I have tried to get my co-workers to ride with me but they were not successful. Now, I commute to work into the suburbs, it is only four miles away and it is boring. I still ride alone. . . when I get the chance.

lil brown bat

Were you, by any chance, wearing a cup?

(and if not, why on earth not?)

Hetshup

I'm also female, and I had never thought of being worried about safety in the attacked and ***** sense until yesterday. Some guy drove really slowly by and made obscene comments the whole time. Eventually, my ignoring him made him leave. But!.... last night I did call a soccer player friend to have him teach me head butting. My theory is, I'm wearing a helmut, they are probably not (unless robbing a bank), the plan is to use my noggin, literally. I've also decided that I can't spend every min of every day worrying, so I don't.


PS I ride on streets mostly

Pezzle

Basically what it boils down to is just trust your instincts and keep your wits about you. Sticking to solid, populated and well lit routes (or cycling in numbers) should definitely minimize your ability to be victimized. Ride/walk with confidence, not with your head down. Making yourself appear as a victim/easily victimized also increases chance of attack. My experience, even though it did NOT result from a random attack just tends to make me extra-paranoid. 'Tis an experience nobody should ever have to go through.

As far as defending yourself goes, yeah I said eye gouge. That's only if you have the opening though. You have to feel each situation out as it goes, since I also said plans tend to fall apart once the situation has actually happened. Being on a bike most likely has its advantages in an attack situation. If they are in a car, you can squeeze into places they cannot. If they are on foot, you are faster, and bikes can HURT if necessary but I wouldn't recommend that unless it's a last-ditch effort to save your skin. Well.. I at least used to be able to tail-whip/wheel-whip people, but my balance for that has since disappeared with time, heh.

SSarah

I concur.

chephy

A woman here. I used to regularly commute through some of Toronto's roughest neighbourhoods at night. Yeah, I know, we're no Detroit, but we have our sketchy areas too.

Never felt threatened. Maintain your situational awareness, vary your routes, don't go into isolated alleys, don't ride an expensive bike wearing expensive bike superman costume... My worst "personal safety moment" came when there was a bunch of young hooligans who were standing around and completely blocking a small residential street, and didn't want to make any room for me as I was coming towards them. And it was in one of the more upscale neighbourhoods. And it didn't amount to anything... they didn't really want to stop me; just wanted to act too important to make space for a cyclist.

I don't mean to pretend the world is all rosy and care-free, but it appears to me that North America is pervaded by this entirely unhealthy paranoia. If you step outside you'll be ***** and kill; if you ride a bike you'll hit your head on the ground and die; if you go swimming, you'll drown; on and on and on it goes. Yes, it's good to take reasonable safety precautions. It's also good to estimate risks reasonably and not let fear ruin your life. Go live it instead of worrying of what might happen if you started to live it.