(NY) State Senator Jeff Klein curses the wrong cyclist
#26
Ride the Road

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,058
Likes: 5
From: Columbus, Ohio
Bikes: Surly Cross-Check; hard tail MTB
Sometimes, it really is the cyclist's fault. By saying that the car "just drifted into him," it looks like the cyclist was either cruising just to the car's right or passing on the right. Either way, that's dangerous and stupid, and the cyclist was at least partially, if not entirely, at fault.
If Transportation Alternatives really takes up this idiot's case, it will be an embarrassment to all cyclists. Colin Beavan needs to learn how to ride in traffic correctly before he starts lecturing others.
If Transportation Alternatives really takes up this idiot's case, it will be an embarrassment to all cyclists. Colin Beavan needs to learn how to ride in traffic correctly before he starts lecturing others.
#27
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 201
Likes: 0
From: Isla Vista (Santa Barbara) and Berkeley
Bikes: 1979 Motobecane Nomade Sprint, homegrown fixie
so, if i am holding a constant speed, on the right side of the lane near the parked cars, and someone hits me with their car it will be partly my fault and an embarrassment to all cyclists if a group trying to improve the urban biking experience decides my accident was enough to get them to do something more?
i am not totally sure that i follow you there.
in fact i quite definitely don't follow your logic on that one.
i am not totally sure that i follow you there.
in fact i quite definitely don't follow your logic on that one.
#28
Senior Member

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,225
Likes: 0
Sometimes, it really is the cyclist's fault. By saying that the car "just drifted into him," it looks like the cyclist was either cruising just to the car's right or passing on the right. Either way, that's dangerous and stupid, and the cyclist was at least partially, if not entirely, at fault.
If Transportation Alternatives really takes up this idiot's case, it will be an embarrassment to all cyclists. Colin Beavan needs to learn how to ride in traffic correctly before he starts lecturing others.
If Transportation Alternatives really takes up this idiot's case, it will be an embarrassment to all cyclists. Colin Beavan needs to learn how to ride in traffic correctly before he starts lecturing others.
#29
Ride the Road

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,058
Likes: 5
From: Columbus, Ohio
Bikes: Surly Cross-Check; hard tail MTB
Traffic was moving rather slowly and you were heading in the downtown direction, as was I. You were in the far left lane and I was riding on the curbside of that lane, near your rear passenger door. Suddenly, you began to veer your Mercedes to the left, potentially crushing me between your car and the cars parked on the side of the road.
Plus there's no rule that drivers need to check blind spots before moving from one part of a lane to another.
#30
His post is unclear as to which side he was on:
He makes a really weak case by not explaining who was passing whom. If he was passing the driver, it was his fault.
Plus there's no rule that drivers need to check blind spots before moving from one part of a lane to another.
Traffic was moving rather slowly and you were heading in the downtown direction, as was I. You were in the far left lane and I was riding on the curbside of that lane, near your rear passenger door. Suddenly, you began to veer your Mercedes to the left, potentially crushing me between your car and the cars parked on the side of the road.
Plus there's no rule that drivers need to check blind spots before moving from one part of a lane to another.
If the driver were moving left, either to turn or to negotiate some upcoming obstacle it would be more than prudent but almost essential to not only check his mirrors but look back over his shoulder especially when driving in Manhattan.
It also seems the major complaint of the cyclist, which seems to me to be a legitimate one, is the driver's response to being told he almost crushed someone with his car. One might think that the appropriate response might be "Sorry, but I really didn't see you." NOT "Get your f***** hands off my car!"
#31
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
I'm pretty sure that when you take the driving exam in NY you lose points for not checking blind spots. Plus, it's in the driver's manual that they give to people who plan on getting their license.
#32
Senior Member

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,452
Likes: 0
EVERYONE who drives should do this. I see morons on the road who just check their side mirrors and cut over, not realizing that there's another car right next to them, in their blind spots. That's how accidents happen.
I'm just curious, other drivers out there, do you check your blind spots?
#33
Ride the Road

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,058
Likes: 5
From: Columbus, Ohio
Bikes: Surly Cross-Check; hard tail MTB
Are you serious? When you're driving, and want to switch lanes, what do you do? I personally check my rear view for a split second, then my side mirror then a quick head check for blind spot.
EVERYONE who drives should do this. I see morons on the road who just check their side mirrors and cut over, not realizing that there's another car right next to them, in their blind spots. That's how accidents happen.
I'm just curious, other drivers out there, do you check your blind spots?
EVERYONE who drives should do this. I see morons on the road who just check their side mirrors and cut over, not realizing that there's another car right next to them, in their blind spots. That's how accidents happen.
I'm just curious, other drivers out there, do you check your blind spots?
I concede that this would be the motorist's fault if he had just passed the cyclist. But a cyclist that is trying to squeeze by a slower moving car in the same lane as that slower moving car is riding dangerously.
The more I read about this, the more I think that, at best for the cyclist, this is a case of an accident almost caused by two stupid, oblivious, pigheaded people. Neither the motorist nor the cyclist has the right to be indignant. They should have both apologized and moved on, being embarrassed by what their own stupidity could have caused.
#34
It's easy being green.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 932
Likes: 0
From: in the desert
Bikes: Trek Beach Cruiser, Sun X-2 AX (bent)
The more I read about this, the more I think that, at best for the cyclist, this is a case of an accident almost caused by two stupid, oblivious, pigheaded people. Neither the motorist nor the cyclist has the right to be indignant. They should have both apologized and moved on, being embarrassed by what their own stupidity could have caused.
#35
Are you serious? When you're driving, and want to switch lanes, what do you do? I personally check my rear view for a split second, then my side mirror then a quick head check for blind spot.
EVERYONE who drives should do this. I see morons on the road who just check their side mirrors and cut over, not realizing that there's another car right next to them, in their blind spots. That's how accidents happen.
I'm just curious, other drivers out there, do you check your blind spots?
EVERYONE who drives should do this. I see morons on the road who just check their side mirrors and cut over, not realizing that there's another car right next to them, in their blind spots. That's how accidents happen.
I'm just curious, other drivers out there, do you check your blind spots?
#36
"Florida Man"



Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,668
Likes: 2,599
From: East Florida
Bikes: '16 Bob Jackson rando, '66 Raleigh Superbe, 80 Nishiki Maxima, 07 Gary Fisher Utopia, 09 Surly LHT
The more I read about this, the more I think that, at best for the cyclist, this is a case of an accident almost caused by two stupid, oblivious, pigheaded people. Neither the motorist nor the cyclist has the right to be indignant. They should have both apologized and moved on, being embarrassed by what their own stupidity could have caused.
They both look bad--the Senator, for his boorish response(if true), and the biker, for his rambling letter. If the cyclist had a valid point, it could have been made concisely, skillfully, with less emotion for greater impact. I don't want either of these guys representing me, as a Senator or a cycling advocate.
#37
Prefers Cicero

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,860
Likes: 146
From: Toronto
Bikes: 1984 Trek 520; 2007 Bike Friday NWT; misc others
Agree. The letter was unintelligible.
Last edited by cooker; 09-20-08 at 08:58 AM.
#38
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,819
Likes: 0
From: Ohio
The more I read about this, the more I think that, at best for the cyclist, this is a case of an accident almost caused by two stupid, oblivious, pigheaded people. Neither the motorist nor the cyclist has the right to be indignant. They should have both apologized and moved on, being embarrassed by what their own stupidity could have caused.
#39
genec
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 27,072
Likes: 4,533
From: West Coast
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Well this goes to show that even here in BF an analysis can be made that is not positive for the cyclist. Good show. An honest evaluation if I ever saw one.
Now regarding the driver... if those were his words, he needs a serious head check.
As for the cyclist, he needs to learn how to take a lane.
As for the whole issue... sadly it does point to the problem of cycling in America... the road hog / vehicle obsessed motorist, and the timid cyclist "trying to stay out of the way" due to societal pressure to not take a lane.
All this is evidence of a much larger problem... something that does have to be worked out. Cyclists have to be seen as part of the over all transportation picture, not as some second class leech borrowing limited space on motorists' roads. This is not going to happen until cycling is acknowledged at the highest levels as a legitimate form of transit. The Transportation Secretary for instance cannot berate "park riding cyclists" for the lack of funds for maintaining infrastructure that all vehicles need.
And it is high time that Cycling Paths become the domain of the Department of Transportation vice The Parks Department.
Now regarding the driver... if those were his words, he needs a serious head check.
As for the cyclist, he needs to learn how to take a lane.
As for the whole issue... sadly it does point to the problem of cycling in America... the road hog / vehicle obsessed motorist, and the timid cyclist "trying to stay out of the way" due to societal pressure to not take a lane.
All this is evidence of a much larger problem... something that does have to be worked out. Cyclists have to be seen as part of the over all transportation picture, not as some second class leech borrowing limited space on motorists' roads. This is not going to happen until cycling is acknowledged at the highest levels as a legitimate form of transit. The Transportation Secretary for instance cannot berate "park riding cyclists" for the lack of funds for maintaining infrastructure that all vehicles need.
And it is high time that Cycling Paths become the domain of the Department of Transportation vice The Parks Department.
Last edited by genec; 09-20-08 at 10:01 AM.
#40
Prefers Cicero

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,860
Likes: 146
From: Toronto
Bikes: 1984 Trek 520; 2007 Bike Friday NWT; misc others
New York State law:
Section 1234. Riding on roadways, shoulders, bicycle lanes and bicycle paths.
(a) Upon all roadways, any bicycle shall be driven either on a usable bicycle lane or, if a usable bicycle lane has not been provided, near the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway or upon a usable right- hand shoulder in such a manner as to prevent undue interference with the flow of traffic except when preparing for a left turn
Section 1234. Riding on roadways, shoulders, bicycle lanes and bicycle paths.
(a) Upon all roadways, any bicycle shall be driven either on a usable bicycle lane or, if a usable bicycle lane has not been provided, near the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway or upon a usable right- hand shoulder in such a manner as to prevent undue interference with the flow of traffic except when preparing for a left turn
#41
Senior Member

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,452
Likes: 0
But in the city, I would normally do a head check if I want to pull closer to the left of my own lane (to take an empty parking spot for example) because I've had close calls with cyclists, moped riders, razor scooter riders, electrical moped riders, etc.)....especially when I'm driving under 20mph when all these things can be right next to me.
I tried doing that, but it's just so hard to get used to!!! I know it's ********, but I like to see a very very tiny portion of the side of my car in the side mirrors. Your way is the "elite" way of doing it, but I just can't get used to it. I don't know if anyone else does this for blind spots...older folks may not want to twist their heads back in a swift motion. You can easily look at your side mirrors, and then LEAN FORWARD a foot or two and you'll see your blind spot that way. But that takes longer than a head check.
#42
Bike ≠ Car ≠ Ped.

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 13,863
Likes: 6
From: Washington, DC
Bikes: Some bikes. Hell, they're all the same, ain't they?
I have my car's mirrors set up so that I have no blind spots -- that is, there is no gap in coverage that's so big that a CAR can hide without being seen either through a mirror or by direct line-of-sight. BUT... that doesn't mean that a cyclist can't ride "in formation" next to my rear fender and still be seen.
Given a busy street with limited options for maneuvering, I'm more concerned with what I'm about to hit in front of me, and basically hoping that I'm not going to get hit from behind as well. The immediate priority, really, is dangers to the front.
+1, + spot on, etc.
I posted a comment saying much the same on his blog entry, but in a lighter tone ("I hope that lessons were learned by both sides").
Given a busy street with limited options for maneuvering, I'm more concerned with what I'm about to hit in front of me, and basically hoping that I'm not going to get hit from behind as well. The immediate priority, really, is dangers to the front.
The more I read about this, the more I think that, at best for the cyclist, this is a case of an accident almost caused by two stupid, oblivious, pigheaded people. Neither the motorist nor the cyclist has the right to be indignant. They should have both apologized and moved on, being embarrassed by what their own stupidity could have caused.
#43
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 401
Likes: 0
From: Sacramento, CA
Bikes: Cannondale Road Warrior
Well, I googled Senator Klein and found that on 9/19/2008, he had agreed to meet with Colin Beavan, No Impact Man:
https://noimpactman.typepad.com/blog/...en-letter.html
https://noimpactman.typepad.com/blog/...en-letter.html
#44
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 401
Likes: 0
From: Sacramento, CA
Bikes: Cannondale Road Warrior
When I took Driver's Ed, I learned the acronym SMOG for changing lanes...Signal, Mirror, Over-the-shoulder, Go. Not many people S, M, or O...but they always GO! (One of my pet peeves!)
#45
Bike ≠ Car ≠ Ped.

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 13,863
Likes: 6
From: Washington, DC
Bikes: Some bikes. Hell, they're all the same, ain't they?
I tried doing that, but it's just so hard to get used to!!! I know it's ********, but I like to see a very very tiny portion of the side of my car in the side mirrors. Your way is the "elite" way of doing it, but I just can't get used to it. I don't know if anyone else does this for blind spots...older folks may not want to twist their heads back in a swift motion. You can easily look at your side mirrors, and then LEAN FORWARD a foot or two and you'll see your blind spot that way. But that takes longer than a head check.
Turning your head too far can make you swerve (just like cyclists often do when we turn to look back); leaning forward and turning to look is even worse since you're tugging on the steering wheel, which is the primary control device for the car.When you need to look along the side of your car via the side mirror, tilt your head towards the window.
Go here:
https://www.police.york.on.ca/erase/Video.htm
Watch the two videos for mirrors. Heck, watch them all, and spread the link -- this stuff is better than anything I remember from my own driver's testing.
#46
Bike ≠ Car ≠ Ped.

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 13,863
Likes: 6
From: Washington, DC
Bikes: Some bikes. Hell, they're all the same, ain't they?
To me, they're both more indicative of an even bigger societal problem I'd scientifically describe as, "It's not my fault."
#47
Senior Member

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,452
Likes: 0
Go here:
https://www.police.york.on.ca/erase/Video.htm
Watch the two videos for mirrors. Heck, watch them all, and spread the link -- this stuff is better than anything I remember from my own driver's testing.
https://www.police.york.on.ca/erase/Video.htm
Watch the two videos for mirrors. Heck, watch them all, and spread the link -- this stuff is better than anything I remember from my own driver's testing.
#48
Bike ≠ Car ≠ Ped.

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 13,863
Likes: 6
From: Washington, DC
Bikes: Some bikes. Hell, they're all the same, ain't they?

Maybe one day... But for now, my headchecks work fine for me.
#49
Seņior Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 13,748
Likes: 10
From: Michigan
Bikes: Windsor Fens, Giant Seek 0 (2014, Alfine 8 + discs)
I set my mirrors up for no blind spot too. You don't need to see the side of the car. It's just what you're used to. Most people have been taught the wrong way to do it and have been doing it that way their whole lives. In a passenger car, there's no need for a blind spot, but most people set their mirrors wrong.
__________________
Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.
Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.
#50
He sits in the MB's blind spot and just waits for something to happen. I think he was trying to setup Jeff Klein.
__________________
www.marrow.org
www.marrow.org





