That makes more sense than anything else said on the subject, but I bet you very few people get it.

The benefit to that..is that Mr. Segal...is defensive weapon only, based on akido (look at the movies, he never starts...but he sure finishes :) )

I feel more can go wrong and someone or the wrong one may get killed.

I agree with the consensus to map out an alternate route and/or carry pepper spray.

Question
 

Does anyone here know is pepper spray only effective if it gets into the eyes or just contact with the skin breathing it in enough. I've seen police footage on tv where guys were sprayed but to keep on resisting long after.

...It doesn't incapacitate them or anything, it is just painful.

If you feel confident in your ability to draw, fire, and hit your target under stress then go ahead and carry. A smaller pistol will be better, of course. I carry a pistol sometimes, and you definitely want to use an on-the-body carry method. There are concealed carry fanny packs on the market. Get one of those---the one that has a quick draw flap. There are some that unzip just like a regular fanny pack. Those are too slow. You want the one where you pull down on the pack and the velcro comes apart, providing access to your handgun.

Well, it closes their eyes and makes them pour snot. It's pretty incapacitating. People can't fight if they can't see or breathe.

My commute isn't through a war zone, so I can't help.

Sorry.

I have cycled for many years in a couple poor areas of Montreal. The worse that ever happened is getting shot with a BB gun from a moving car at 1 AM after coming back from work. I was cycling at 30 km/h, no guns ( I am Canadian, no weapons for us), they missed me.
Would carrying a gun made a difference? Probably not.

Gun and spandex... do you think Lance Armstrong should pack a Glock for the next Tour de France? Maybe he could avoid getting attacked by a deranged French man if they knew he had a gun in his jersey.

No. Lance should pack a 1911 45 ACP, just like when my Dad travelled through France some 60 something years ago. Which was where the whole "duty to retreat" concept was put into action? :)

The only weapon I carry with me is my common sense. There's a 2 mile stretch of my morning commute through a very poorly lit neighborhood, means no street lights what so ever. I always take the middle of the road in these parts to give me some reaction time if anyone ever decides to jump me from the side.

Unfortunately for us cyclists it is very easy for someone someone to knock us down who has intention to do so. The only way your 9 mm can make a difference is if you have it out and already pointed at the general direction of your attacker. A senario that is very unlikely to happen.

In WA defense of property is not a legal defense to homicide. In other words, you can kill someone to protect a person, but not to protect property.

^^^ I couldn't have said it better myself. You have a vehicle, albeit a human powered vehicle. You can circumvent the "bad area" or at least avoid as much of it as possible.

Ride a beater and stick to well lit, well traveled roads and leave the gun at home, Charles Bronson. :thumb:

I am politically pro-freedom, which means pro-gun, but I find this entire thread highly disturbing. The whole idea of someone, anyone, intentionally passing through an area where they are expecting trouble is utterly idiotic. Just because it is the most direct route does not mean it is the only route. Plan an alternate path, or find an alternate means of transportation. Your life isn't worth riding your bike.

If you do decide to begin carrying a firearm, you need to do a lot more than just obtain a concealed weapons permit. You need to search your own soul for what you think you are truly made of. You just don't know until it happens. If you pull draw your weapon, you better be prepared to use it. If you are not prepared to use it, don't bother packing it.

Of course, the irony in all this is that you won't really know until it happens, and then it is too late. If you tell yourself you can do it, and you find out you can't, you are going to sustain serious injury or get killed when you may have only gotten smacked around a little and robbed in the first place. If you are going to pose as someone who resists with deadly force, you need to be willing to show your cards when a street-wise assailant reads the fear in your eyes and calls your bluff.

For what it is worth, most people freeze up the first time they are put in a situation like this, and that is after hours of training. It is extremely unlikely you would keep your composure and retaliate with any illusion of smooth execution. More likely you will be laying on the ground pissing yourself.

Without taking a stance in here on what is "right", as this is a very personal decision, I will note that there are some real presumptions going on here that I just can't support.

1) that there's always a detour available down Leave It To Beaver Lane

2) that the whole point of any defense is to defend the bike, rather than your own skull / life

So make your own mind up based on your own situation, which includes a variety of personal risk management decisions and ethics. Just don't get all holier than thou on someone else, until you get their whole picture.

How about a taser gun?

"For what it is worth, most people freeze up the first time they are put in a situation like this, and that is after hours of training. It is extremely unlikely you would keep your composure and retaliate with any illusion of smooth execution. More likely you will be laying on the ground pissing yourself. "

Yep, you can't possibly defend yourself, much less survive. It's best to just lay down and piss yourself right this minute. Don't even leave the house first. Geez.

I'll never forget the video of the thugs in DC who murdered a guy for sport on the street corner, then videotaped themselves urinating on his face. (Yes, they eventually went to prison. He's still dead.)

No thanks -- if you want that you've gotta fight for it.

A Kel-Tec or Ruger .380 is ideal for bicycling -- very light, powerful enough, and super concealable. A titanium .38 revolver is another option. And by the way, there is no duty anywhere in the universe to retreat from someone who is advancing to murder you. Don't overthink the "duty to retreat" issue.

Where the hell does the OP live? I wouldn't suggest a gun. If you get in to a confrontation and the person takes the gun from you they might shoot you with it. I'd rather get beat up than shot.

Even highly trained people like police know that introducing a gun into a situation that may not have otherwise had one is more of a liability than a safety measure. That's the reason many prison guards, who often walk among inmates, do not carry sidearms, rather non-lethal weapons or none at all. Even if, by some statistical miracle, you were able to safely and effectively draw your weapon and shoot an assailant, without injury to bystanders or your self, you may still be vulnerable to a host of legal actions that would encumber you way beyond the [perceived] inconvenience of having simply taked a safer route. Some would respond with the notion that the criminals are always armed so why shouldn't you be equally armed? Well, rather than 1) taking a knife to a gunfight or, 2) taking a gun to a gunfight, I'd rather just not go to a gun fight at all. What about that? Seems to me that only the police or military would, knowingly, go into such a situation and, when they do, they do it with a wealth of training and resources that are unavailable to the rest of us--and it's still dangerous for them. Bottom line: don't go get yourself killed or in trouble by acting as a Constitutional warrior, do the smart thing and avoid that area: choose a better route and/or safer time of day for your new commute.

I think this is the key post of this thread so far.

I do carry a pistol on me every single day. HOWEVER, I still avoid trouble like it's the plague. I stay away from bad neighborhoods. Why? because I don't want to ever have to use it. If I ever pull that gun out, it'll be because someone put me in a situation that I cannot avoid, and cannot escape. Once that happens, I have no problem drawing and firing (which I train to do pretty frequently. I practice what are called Mozambique drills. Two to the chest, one to the head.)

I would not have any hesitation to use it if I had to, but I look for every opportunity to never have to. So far, in the 3 years that I have been carrying, I have never even had to consider the option of drawing. I'm sure that if I went around putting myself in bad neighborhoods at night and confronting shady people, I'd be telling you a different story.

Editing to add: A common saying on he gun forums where I also hang out, is that a gun is like a good insurance policy and a good doctor. They are good to have, but hope you never need them.
True. My every day carry when I ride is my Ruger LCP.

I like guns. I've carried guns when I've ridden (mountain biking in the mountains of Wyoming).

a) I always carried the gun on my person. (jersey pocket) It's useless anywhere else, unless you have a holster on your handlebars.

b) I wouldn't carry a gun in a high-crime area. Most likely, someone will get your bike AND your gun. They don't need more guns. Don't help build their arsenal.

c) While I think 99.7% of the population of Earth is unworthy of occupying MY planet, I also think blasting away at someone for stealing/trying to steal my bike might be just a little OTT. And illegal.

Actually, I can tell you that cops are NOT highly trained (other than SWAT and the like). When I go to the shooting range, cops are identifiable by how bad the groupings on their targets look. They tend to be the worse shots that the regular non-LEO's who practice regularly. Cops usually only practice when it's time for yearly qualifications. Yes this is a sweeping generalization, but it's usually true.

I would move.

Where exactly do you see those presumptions? With regard to 1), I see a number of people suggesting that there are likely alternatives to choosing to ride through an area that makes you feel so threatened that you're considering carrying a weapon. That doesn't equate to "a detour...down Leave It To Beaver Lane".

With regard to 2), I don't see that at all.

...and I'm really not seeing anyone "get[ting] all holier than thou". Sweep up the straw from your strawmen, please, there's enough of it in this forum as is.

I've been held at gun point and knife point in Moscow, been in some really scary area in the mountains in Serbia. Visited countless shady area in many countries, worked security on the graveyard shift in the drug dealing and prostitute area. I've never been attacked or robbed, I talked my way out of a lot of crazy situations and just avoided others.

Am I lucky? Maybe... I've shot guns and really like it, but I still don't see why somebody would carry a gun.

Now I live in Japan and I have never felt that safe in my whole life. You could leave your bike unlock anywhere for a couple of hours and it would be there untouched. I use to carry around a huge Kryptonite lock, now I use the dollar store one and feel ok about leaving my bike locked outside the mall.

It seems that if you mind your business, people leave you alone wherever you are. There has been some cases of attack on cyclist, but it's so random. You would have the same chance of getting mugged coming out of an ATM.