Five months with no posts!! Time to resurrect one of my favorite threads!

I just picked up yet another (and maybe my closest yet) Poor Man's Rivendell. It's a 1989 Univega Range Rover ES. I grabbed it really cheap at a pawn shop, primarily because old, name-brand MTB's don't pop up very often around here. After I bought it, I started looking at the geometry and it's quite a strange bird for an MTB. In fact, it would make a good Poor Man's Atlantis. The frame is all Tange cro-mo and the fork is cro-mo. I think I'll overhaul it this Spring and spend some time riding it.


Geometry Atlantis Univega

Seat tube 56cm 56.9cm
ETT 57cm 56.9cm
Seat angle 72 degrees 72 degrees
Head angle 72 degrees 71 degrees
Chainstays 44cm* 43.6cm
BB drop 48mm 45mm
Rake 40mm 50mm
Trail 64mm 60mm (with 44mm tires)

*It's my understanding that the newer versions of the Atlantis have 46cm chainstays.

These photos are a good representation of just how big Big Apple tires are. The tire on the rear is a 1.75" and the front is a 2.15" Big Apple. Huge difference for just a 1/3" difference. Unfortunately, the 2.15" Big Apple won't fit on the back of this bike, at least not with the 30mm wide rim that came on it.

Any pre 1990 Schwinn Voyaguer.

After coming across this thread about a year ago, I was inspired to create my own version. I started with a cheap 54cm Retrospec Amok ($370 at the time on Amazon). It's Cross-Check-ish, with horizontal dropouts + derailleur hanger. The only thing I kept was the frame, wheels, seat-post and crank. Here's the parts list for the rest of the build:

Mongoose paver steel handlebar and 105mm 25deg Bontrager stem from local bike coop ($10)

Ergon GC1 swept bar grids $22

Tektro CR720 Brakes $35

Race Face Wide-Narrow 40t 130mm BCD chainring $55

Kool Stop Salmon Brake Pads Dura 2 2x$7

Greenfield Rear-mount Stabilizer Kickstand Black $15

Sunrace CMS99 9-Speed Cassette 11-36T $22

Shimano SP-18-T Bottom Bracket Cable Guide $4

KMC X9.93 Chain $16

Odyssey Twisted PC pedals $16

Planet Bike Cascadia Fenders Hybrid 45mm Silver $33

Shimano CS50 Housing Stops for 1-1/8" Down Tube, Pair $12

SRAM X7 short-cage 9 speed rear derailleur $43

Sun Race MTB right friction shift lever $7

Wald 137 Front Basket with Adjustable Leg: Gloss Black $14

Sunlite Gold Tec Front Rack Black $12

WTB SST saddle $25 (used, Craigslist)

Banjo Brothers Waterproof Saddle Trunk Black $36


total cost ~$700




I love the bike. The only complaints I have with the frame are the heavy fork (which barely has clearance for 35mm tires + fenders) and the thin dropouts (which get bent have to be re-aligned every time the gusty Boulder winds blow the bike over). The handling of the original bike was quite twitchy, with a fair bit of high-speed shimmy. Weighing down the front end with heavy steel handlebars and a front basked actually improved the handling quite a bit.

This is my commuter. I think it fits the poorman's rivendall. $50 at a swap meet. It is a lugged Free Spirit Greendale. It appeared to have hung in a garage since 1980.

Its pretty easy to make a poor man's rivendale.
Instead of spending $4,000+ on a Roadeo, I bought a mint lugged chromolly Specialized Allez from '94 for $250. I'm running 28 and 32mm tires on it now. It is a great sporty commuter and my new goto bike for daily commuting (20lbs, 20mph, fast and smooth).

I also build something like the Clem:
Clem Presale

Bought a $30 lugged chromoly Bianchi advantage hybrid frame and built it up. I llike what Rivendale is doing, but craigs list can be your friend with a little patience.

Here's one. 1991 KHS Montana Pro. Ritchey Logic Tubing. Shimano Deore DX. Ritchey hoops.
SKS Longboards. Schwalbe Marathon 26 x 2. Brooks B17. Powder coat.
Rides great.

Nice. My KHS Montana is a few tweaks away from being Rivendell worthy, I think. Gotta switch the flat bars to either something swept back a little, or my first option is to rig up some dirt drops. I'm still a long way away from needing bars higher than my saddle, though. I hope.

I don't feel like this is a poor man's Rivendell...I feel like this is what Rivendell wishes it could be (but no lugs, unfortunately).

That's probably a pretty accurate sentiment. Great bike, too.
I think the difference is that Rivendell will admit that, it's just that most easy to find bike brands pretty much did away with awesome bikes like that in favor of racing road bikes, racing mountain bikes, etc... So they filled a niche that was being neglected. Though they're certainly not the first, or only, shop to do that. I myself would much rather find a sweet old bike and customize it to something like that, over buying an overpriced rivendell with no real vintage charm behind it.

Thanks! That biek is only 3 commuting days old for me....and a year younger than I am...and I love it. That's exactly how I feel, too. I would rather spend hundreds on a very nice C&V bike than thousands on a new one. I'll give them that their bikes are super pretty, and not many people are doing what they are, but I could never justify the pricetag when there are a lot of great classics out there just waiting for someone to ride them. And only at ~5% of the cost of an Atlantis, there is nothing that bike could do that mine can't. Now, if I were to be given a R-dell....well you wouldn't hear any complaints from me

This is censored?

Yes, but look on the bright side, you can click on junk advertisements like Club Med then get a shcit load of junk mail not only from Club Med but companies galore that you never heard of...all completely uncensored.

If you've never ridden a Rivendell you really shouldn't bash them. I know. Not that I ever bashed them but at some point I certainly felt I could duplicate the ride quality restoring/converting older frames. Back in '96 I bought a brand spanking new rigid mtb (Trek 950) with the intention of using it for my commute. I'd never heard of Rivendell, and for that matter, they maybe didn't even yet exist. But I'd been commuting 45 miles a day 5 days a week since the late '80's and knew what I wanted. Nobody made it. So I invested the dollars and converted a mtb. After a while life's time constraints changed a bit a forced me to resurrect the '83 Nishiki Sport-Touring bike. This was the bike the Trek 950 replaced. I invested the dollars and converted the Nishiki into a poor man's Rivendell; or so I thought. Than, around 2010 I found an '86 Bianchi Squadra (,sp?) on CL. Almost mint condition. Been hanging in a garage and they wanted it out! I paid $100 and invested another 4 to $500, at least, converting it. This bike was fun and fast. The only problem was that I could not fit a rack, but I got a backpack and adapted. I thought I was set. However, whenever I got a chance I would test ride bikes at shops looking for that perfect fit. Mostly out of town bike shops following my kids on the competitive USA swimming circuit. I rode countless Surly's, Salsa's, Bianchi's, Trek's, Specialized, whatever. After a while I came to the conclusion if I ever got a new bike it would have to be a custom. Than ... my wife decided she wanted a bike and she wanted a Rivendell mixte. So we took a couple trips to Walnut Creek, CA to ride their bikes. The first time was a bit rushed and we decided we needed to come back again at a latter date. We both were impressed, but I don't do anything impulsive anymore. Several months later we came back and they sent us out for a lengthy test ride. Close, if not over 4 hours of mixed terrain. The first time I was there I rode the A. Homer Hilsen and the second time a Sam Hillborne. To make a long story short we came home with two frame sets and a couple huge smiles; (1) a Betty Foy and (2) a Sam Hillborne. I was not even in the market. I thought I was happy with what I had! But after riding that Sam Hillborne I was sold. 12,000 miles latter this bike still puts a smile on my face every time I ride it. I'm so happy I've converted the Trek 950 back to MTB duty. The Nishiki hasn't been ridden since, and the Bianchi once. So until you've ridden a Rivendell you really shouldn't pass judgement. I'm not saying they are for everyone, and you should be happy with what you have, but it turned out to be a decent value for me. In fact, I would have been money ahead if I could have bought it first. If they existed. I bought my Sam Hillborne frame set and built it with quality new parts for $2,200. That's not small money but I was a a point in my life where I could afford it. So if you were to ask me what's the poor man's Rivendell? I'd have to say my Sam Hillborne. Not all their bikes cost $4,000

Just sayin.

Matt

What you're just sayin is correct, the Rivendell line of bikes are fantastic bikes except for the Soma which I've heard are flexy. I considered getting a Atlantis quite seriously but ended up with a Mercian due to the ability to get all sorts of frame add on's and different lugs with better components for about the same cost. But money wise the Sam Hillborne is indeed a great bike for the money.

Not sure if I would classify that Hillborne bike though as a poor mans Rivendell, I guess it's all in the interpretation of the person, but there are far less expensive brand new touring bikes like the Fuji Tourer and the Kona Sutra that both sell for less than $1800 completely loaded with racks and fenders but those aren't lugged steel; but I was more thinking along the lines of something like my 85 Schwinn Le Tour Luxe that I only paid $100 used, thats in near new condition that I use as my main touring bike.

I think the definition of a poor mans Rivendell has gone off track here in my opinion, something lugged that someone paid less than $500 that can be used to do a loaded tour on.

Since you rode those bikes, whats the difference between the Sam Hillborne and the Homer Hilsen? They seem like the same bike with the same idea behind them.

I have a 1979 Trek 910 that I paid $300 (plus $60 shipping) for in 2011. A Rivendell can't be a better bike than it, in my opinion.
When I finally can figure out the hell to do it, I'll post a photo or two of the bike.

Is this a poor man's Rivendell? Seeing as it's actually a Rivendell:

Clem Smith Jr. Complete PRESALE

At ~$1500 it's not a poor man's anything, but it's a lot cheaper than any other Rivendell, so it's all relative. What do think of this bike?

But I will bash the company. From what I saw of the quality control of one that came into my clinic,coupled with their FUG marketing,I'll totally hammer them.

BTW,love my Dyna Super Glide Sport,but can't stand Willie G and what he's done with the company.

Appearance wise they are different. The Hilsen has the traditional horizontal top tube whereas the Hillborne has a 6 degree up sloping top tube. The ride is pretty similar, however, but I'd guess all things being equal the Hilsen is a little bit sportier. Simply because it is a bit lighter. The main difference is the tubing. The Hillborne is a built a bit more stout and falls directly between the Hilsen and the Atlantis in terms of weight carrying ability. Think of the Hilsen as a credit card tourer, the Hillborne as an overnight camper and the Atlantis as a tourer.

Matt

Are you sure your on the right list?

Matt

Nothing wrong with a 1979 Trek 910. That's for sure. But I'm guessing they are probably harder to find than a Rivendell. You say "A Rivendell can't be a better bike ..." I disagree. I'm not about to go into a bunch of research on '79 Trek 910's but I'll venture to say the Rivendell is better because it's designed for modern easy to find components. For example: 700c and 650B versus 27" wheels, 135mm rear axel versus whatever was used back in the day, Fatter tires (my Hillborne can take 40mm tire w/fenders), better brakes, a more realistic selection of drive train components, and the flexibility to get those handlebars up into a more upright position if and when needed. You can grow old with these bikes. I'm not saying these differences can't be dealt with from a frame built in 1979, but I know from experience these modifications can be costly to implement. And in the end, the frame geometry wasn't initially designed for the conversion and the overall ride quality suffers.

Please keep in mind that one of the biggest advantages to a Rivendell is the way it rides. And if I'm not mistaken, doesn't the Trek 910 have a low trail geometry? Rivendell's are not low trail. There isn't anything wrong with low trail but comparing a low trail bike to a Rivendell is like comparing apples to oranges in my opinion.

What is it that makes a poor man's Rivendell? I can assure you that it isn't simply using cotton handlebar tape, Brooks saddles, and sweptback handlebars.

RBW started out planning to sell the Clem as a frameset and maybe as a complete bike. They even pre-sold framesets for awhile and then they were going to offer framesets and complete bikes and now it's complete bikes, only. That's disappointing to me because I might have been interested in a frameset.

Check out this video on shifters and jump to about 1:10 and you'll see Grant walk over and wheel the 52cm 650B Clem prototype over to the table. The video of the bike is much more attractive than the photo on the website.

https://vimeo.com/126644183

I test rode one a few weeks ago (tge Clementine). It was a very speedy step-through. Nice ride, very cushy, way better than my Public Bike, though oddly it had a men's b17 saddle. That sucked.

I had my heart set on a mixte frame. I tried the Cheviot too. I was very impressed. And that was way out of budget. And Riv doesn't do internal gears. So my poor girl's cheviot is my Soma Buena Vista (still waiting for her lights and chain guard).

I've never rode one but it does look like another typical very artistically designed in the Rivendell fashion bike...in other words in the looks department a very nice looking bike. It does have lower end components but no where on earth are you going to find those kind of lugs for $1,400! You can always upgrade the components piece by piece as the need arises because that frame is highly worthy of upgrading unlike any frame you're going to find anywhere else for that money. I've never heard of anyone who bought any Rivendell bike to dislike the ride so it's a pretty good bet that that bike will also ride good.

Thanks for the report, that's good information to have for anyone considering a Rivendell bike.

Yes, the Trek 910 is low trail.
I wasn't referring to all the variable things that can be done with a Rivendell vs my Trek. I simply meant (and should have said) that the quality of the frame of my Trek is as good as a Rivendell. I also wasn't disparaging Rivendell. They are great looking and, no doubt, great quality bikes.