Wow. Looks like most of the thread responses are pretty much what I would have said about Rivendell and Surly

I like the Rivendell philosophy myself, but the bikes from them are too expensive. I bought a Long Haul Trucker instead, and it certainly rides like a Cadillac

My bike doesn't like it when I try to push it to the limit, though, and it doesn't take corners well Now I want an agile speedster on top.

Here is what *I* like about Surly's bikes/frames:

-Steel frames. I tend to accidentally abuse my bikes a bit more than I'd like to (drops, crashes, etc.), so I would be uncomfortable with carbon fiber. As for aluminum, the bikes I've test ridden (and I've test ridden quite a lot of alu-bikes) have all felt "dead" to me. Yes, steel can be heavier than most other materials, but as someone who's 60-70 lbs. overweight, I don't see the point in getting a lightweight frame. Excess weight should be taken off of the rider before the bike. My LHT has already taken quite a few spills due to my inattentiveness, but the frame and fork still look good as new. As for the saddle, shifters, brake levers...well...
-Wide Tire Clearance. I like riding on wider tires than most people so that I don't feel all the bumps, cracks, and potholes in the road. 700x28's are plenty narrow enough for me, thanks. This also has to do with my weight, as I mentioned above.
-Relatively inexpensive frames (when you compare them with framesets from other companies...)

It really has nothing to do with a "cult" or anything for me. I am sure there are other people who like Surly bikes for the same reasons I do.

futuregrace, there's no need to follow trends or cults. Just pick the bike you like riding the most. The point is to find a bike that's so fun that you want to ride it all the time, instead of something that just has a cult following, or is super-practical. I sort of made that mistake with my Surly, ya know I think I should have gotten a Cross-Check or a Redline 925 instead. Those were way more fun on the test ride, but I wanted my touring bike, dang it.

Reasonably priced for what they are, but they are still pretty darned expensive. There's the statement that Surly is the poor man's Rivendell. Honestly, I see both companies as elitist vintage bikes. Personally I'd rather just get the real thing: an older vintage bike. It might be that once my sons are out of the house and supporting themselves (like that will ever happen) I might be more interested in getting one of those elitist bikes. But I'm happy with my old junk for now.

I could have gotten an A Homer Hilsen frame for $500 from a friend. I turned him down and he ended up selling it for more than twice that on CL. Yeah, it was a nice frame, but I'd rather have a bike I can unobtrusively lock up outside the store or the bar or whatever, confident that no one is really going to covet it while I'm in there.

Surly is a division of one of the biggest bike companies in North America - Quality Bicycle Parts. QBP is the biggest distributor of bike parts in the U.S. They also make/import Salsa, Civia, Dimension, and probably some other stuff as well.

They've done a great job putting good bikes on the market, and also marketing themselves as a "cult," when they actually are run by a "conglomerate."

Don't know much about the Cult following of either the Jamis or Surly. However I am a proud owner of a Jamis exile and Surly LHT. Both steel bikes, however ones a hardtail and the other is a touring bike.

I like Jamis, and when I was shopping for a touring bike the Aurora was on the top of the list to look at. There were just some things about it that made the LHT the smarter choice for me (and color/scheme was definetly one of the deciding factors as well as maybe novelty).

Just get the bike that is the smarter choice for you based on your riding. And if you can't decide get the one with the prettier color(s).

Does Huffy make chairs? Am I missing something here?

While we are picking on CCrew. Using Buick as a analogy for being slow is not a good choice. Buick has produced some incredibly fast cars actually. And as far as being modern some of the new models looks an awful lot like european car styles to me.

Like a Caddilacs eh? So the Surly waffles along and has vague feel to it?

I much prefer the feel of BMWs myself, sharp, precise and teutonic.

I have to say, each time I ride my new Surly Cross Check the more I like it. It is so smooth and stable, handles great and has built in versatility missing from other makes. I guess I am a new member of the Surly Cult.

I've got two Surly's, a Cross Check and a Big Dummy but I don't consider these to be my cult bicycles. My cult bicycles are my Alex Moultons. My latest is a New Series Double Pylon which currently retails for £14,000 and there is over a one year waiting list to get one. Now that is a cult bicycle.

The only way to satisfactorily answer this question is to buy one of each. Otherwise, you will be forever tormented. You don't want that.

Youve obviously not watch any auto racing lately . Caddilacs have been winning alot of road races.

I don't think that "cult" means expensive or hard to get, it simply means the brand has a fanatical or passionate following and I would say that is the case with many Surly owners if not yourself.

You are a genius! Thank you. :-)

There's also the issue that Surly and Rivendell make damn fine frames that their owners enjoy riding. If you make a good product, it's easier to build a "Cult" following: people who know what the hell they're doing, or others who want to imitate them. If Surly or Rivendell market a bike at someone, tourer, commuter, crosser, roadie, they have done their homework, every last little detail has been worked out, and QC is above par. You are paying for reliability and small details done right... this is called "quality," and this is a feature worth paying for. You will almost be guaranteed to enjoy your bike from the start, even if it's slower, more expensive and doesn't have as many bells or whistles as other bikes in the same segment. (Riv and Surly aren't the only guys to get this right, either... quite a few cults worth exploring hereabouts.)

I look for the enthusiasts, and listen to what they say about their favorite stuff: Tacoma pickups, Panasonic DSLRs, Koss headphones, Motorola Droid, Apple iMacs, Pilot G2 pens - these are cult items, well out of the mainstream. Fewer features, more expensive, but the small details are done right, and the big picture, quality, makes their owners immune from buyer's remorse.

Unlike, say, an impulse-buy pedal forward cruiser on clearance (Oh, once I swap out the fork, wheels and derailleurs and paint it matte black with stove paint, I'll go back to loving it. The winter was not kind on the cheapo factory running gear or paint.)

Yes. So do Toyota and Honda. Your point?

so much about the Surly LHT, I'm kinda partial to the Trek 520. Both excellent tour bikes.

Hang out with my friends, and then say there's no cult... Four of us own Auroras, and at least one has described it as his "favourite physical possession." I also love my Aurora, but have not tested the Surly for comparison.

Surly is very successful at marketing, and do make good bikes. They're quite specialised and make only a small number of models (6 complete models, 10 frames), all of them excellent for their function. Jamis also makes good bikes, but has wider selection and - most importantly - also builds some down-market bikes. Not department store level, but they do make bikes that are cheap by proper bike shop standards. That affects the brand's reputation and so it's unlikely a company like Jamis would get the cult following, something that's generally reserved for companies serving a narrower market.

Frankly, I am not sure if Surly is even a division. I always thought they were just a brand, just like Tide is a P&G brand.

Paul

Well, that's an awfully strange thing to say. Trek is wrong to want to sell as many Madones as possible?

Your implication that they are (dishonestly?) trying to sell Madones to everyone is misplaced, anyway. Last I checked, Trek had an extremely diverse line of bicycles, of which the Madone and other racing bicycles only made up a small part. That's an awfully strange strategy to pursue if your goal is to sell Madones to "the masses." When you realize, in fact, that this is NOT Trek's goal, it makes a lot more sense.

I used to work for a big company. There were divisions, subsidiaries, and things called business units. Some operated very independently and some even competed against each other to a certain extent. I'm not sure exactly how Surly fits inside of QBP but I know that there are about 9 Surly employees.

The Surly products originally started back in the mid to late 90's as pet projects of people who were into turning geared offroad bikes into single speeds. Some of these folks were currently working for QBP and others had previously worked for them. Eventually they convinced QBP to produce and sell the products.

I met one of the creators of the Crosscheck when I put an add on craigslist looking for a particular type of cyclocross handlebars. He sold me his and they now live on my winter bike.

Edit: According to this page on the QBP website, the Surly brand is one of their independent business units along with Salsa, Civia, and others.

Haha...thanks for setting me straight, champ.

Jamis makes great bikes but, like Fuji, doesn't get the buzz it deserves.

Alright, hoping I can shed some light from both sides. I sell both Surly and Jamis. I sell a ton of Long Haul Truckers and a ton of Jamis Aurora's. They are both basically the same frame material, chromoly steel. Surly buys one person's version and Jamis another person's version. Same steel properties though. Both cheap, but ride amazingly well.

Geometry is where it makes it's mark. The LHT has a lower bottom bracket and a longer wheelbase. This makes the bike more stable, but slower in handling. The ride of the Aurora feels the same, just with sportier abilities. It sits higher so can corner harder while pedaling. The Long Haul Trucker, on the other hand, cannot corner too fast while pedaling, but at the same time, feels like you couldn't tip the thing over even if you were trying to do so. It wants to stay upright and stable, that's what it's designed for.

The LHT feels great when cruising and not getting to the point of huffing and puffing. The Aurora feels a little better when you are giving it a little more.

As far as cult followings, I like them both. Both companies just enjoy riding their bikes, which is why Jamis still sells so many steel frames. Everyone knows Surly likes to have fun and ride, so do the people I have met from Jamis. Basically, after hanging out with the people from Jamis I would not think they would question me drinking wine while riding an Aurora on a tour any more than Surly. And we all know Surly wouldn't question it.

Personally, I ride a LHT, and this is the point where I will get passionate about why. I like the 26" wheels. Never have I been stopped by a gravel road anywhere, or even going through grass fields just to see whats at the top of the hill. A few days ago I was riding 20 mph on an unloaded LHT on a gravel road downhill and felt way too comfortable for my own good. From my rides on an Aurora, I wouldn't feel so stable sitting an inch higher with an inch less of wheelbase and a skinnier tire. While I could cruise a little faster, that is none of my concern. I want to go wherever, whenever, and try to run over turkeys only to learn that they can actually fly very well when they are scared.

As far as the Surly cult, I think their following has to do more with their emphasis on the fun of riding and nothing else. They design their bikes for as many uses as possible as long as that use doesn't include getting too serious about anything. Someone said that they are overpriced and I see that as ignorance. Their frames are $400, and I would pay that for the ride even they actually only cost $100 to manufacture. Surly has got something going for them and I would be willing to support their ideas and future influence on the cycling world. But their frames are worth every penny, just to be clear.

I think it is important to be proud of what you ride, and feel that you are using the product how the person who designed it intends. It is almost a way to feel like you are thanking them for their product, and if you ever run into the person who designed it, you want to know that they would be excited to know how you were using it. Like I already said, both Jamis and Surly would be happy that you were using it for however you wanted. The only other thing I will say about it is buying a Surly kind of gives you the feeling that you should have more fun riding than you used to, simply because we have seen all the things Surly themself does with them...you almost have the feeling of trying to live up to the expectations from the company. The Aurora can do the same things, there just aren't those expectations.

For commuting or group rides I would probably have chosen the Aurora. But for doing anything that I could possibly have, or want to do, albeit it a little slower, I chose the LHT.

Hope that helps. And it was fun to write anyway.

Maybe I'm the one that's confused here, and you can shed some light on the situation, but it's my understanding that the companies you named off function completely independently, but are distributed through QBP. I think of it in terms of the music industry. Subsidiary labels distribute through their big name major label parents to get their product more out there than they could themselves; just like DIY bands pay for their own recordings, but have their music distributed by independent labels, who can do a better job of getting their music heard. The smaller label and DIY bands don't have the time/means necessary to offer things to a large market, and that's where their labels come in. Just like Surly, Salsa, etc. Their focus is on their bicycles, not marketing, that's QBP's business. I don't read bicycle magazines or anything, but to be fair, I've never seen a Surly or Salsa ad before.

People saying that Surly has some crazy grass-roots, "anti-marketing," marketing philosophy are insane. All of the Surly praise I've heard has been word of mouth, not some huge three page spread in a bike magazine, or all over the internet. If their bikes were bad, they wouldn't be popular. Period. Surly makes steel bikes for a good price. You'd be hard-pressed to find an equal-quality, name branded/backed, steel frame anywhere for the same price.

Spoken like a true cult member Stannian I feel the same way about my LHT.