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Old 05-28-10 | 09:30 PM
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might quit commuting

Two people were recently killed here in Tempe while riding their bikes. One lived in my neighborhood and was killed in an intersection I used to cross all the time; he left behind a wife and small daughter.( https://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region...d-for-daughter ) For some reason this really got to me, more than any other story like this, and has made me re-evaluate my commitment to bike commuting. My wife can't work due to illness, and I am the sole breadwinner right now. If something happens to me, she's screwed. Thinking about getting my exercise another way. people need me; I can't risk getting mowed down by an SUV. they're setting up a ghost bike there tomorrow.
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Old 05-28-10 | 09:32 PM
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I have had 4 friends killed in car crashes, and one in an airplne crash.
Best to stay at home.
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Old 05-28-10 | 09:33 PM
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Are you safer in the car from SUV drivers?
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Old 05-28-10 | 09:40 PM
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Old 05-28-10 | 09:41 PM
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If you would never forgive yourself having an accident on the bicycle... then you should stop. Irregardless of what is objectively safer.
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Old 05-28-10 | 09:45 PM
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Take a break for a while, and evaluate it for yourself.
 
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Old 05-28-10 | 09:49 PM
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Yep time for a break man. Don't beat yourself up over it either your family is more important.
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Old 05-28-10 | 09:59 PM
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Yes, take a break. It's best to think it over. I know what you mean, news like that can really rattle your nerves.
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Old 05-28-10 | 10:28 PM
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Thanks, guys. it really shook me up.
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Old 05-28-10 | 10:49 PM
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I know start collecting vintage guitars. Then when you feel like you need to take a break from that send them to me for safekeeping. Just tryin to help ya know.
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Old 05-28-10 | 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by 10 Wheels
I have had 4 friends killed in car crashes, and one in an airplne crash.
Best to stay at home.

With the windows and doors locked, all the electrical appliances unplugged, and no hot food at all, just MREs. It's a dangerous wold out there after all! All kidding aside, I'll second the follow-your-gut answer. If you don't feel right on the road then hang it up for a while and take a breather. If you force youself to ride then you will indeed run the risk of having an accident from riding tense.
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Old 05-28-10 | 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by electrik
If you would never forgive yourself having an accident on the bicycle... then you should stop. Irregardless of what is objectively safer.
That makes no sense. If the idea is to avoid (to the greatest possible extent) a life or career-ending injury, than whichever one is safer absolutely MUST be regarded. Which one it is I don't know, but geez. It actually does matter.
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Old 05-28-10 | 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by grolby
That makes no sense. If the idea is to avoid (to the greatest possible extent) a life or career-ending injury, than whichever one is safer absolutely MUST be regarded. Which one it is I don't know, but geez. It actually does matter.
But the point is self-forgiveness. We can forgive ourselves for decisions that are irrational, and we can feel guilty about decisions that are rational. We can't help our feelings; electrik's point is sound.
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Old 05-28-10 | 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by electrik
Are you safer in the car from SUV drivers?
um...yes.
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Old 05-28-10 | 11:43 PM
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My wife can't work due to illness, and I am the sole breadwinner right now. If something happens to me, she's screwed.
First, get some life insurance. Like right now.

Second, nothing is risk-free. Not biking, not driving, not walking, not even staying in your house. There are risks everywhere, but you have to go on living your life.

Third, just because misfortune happens to someone, it doesn't mean you're next.

In the end, though, it comes down to what you feel is best. If cycling is worrying you (or your family), maybe it's time for a break. You can always get back into it later if you want.
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Old 05-28-10 | 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by yarb
But the point is self-forgiveness. We can forgive ourselves for decisions that are irrational, and we can feel guilty about decisions that are rational. We can't help our feelings; electrik's point is sound.
I thought the point was not getting killed, but apparently I wasn't reading between the lines.

Seriously, the OP is talking about being around for his family's future. That has not one rip to do with "self-forgiveness." If safety is the priority and it is safer to drive, that's the right move. If safety is the priority and it's safer to ride, that's the right move. Feeling guilty isn't the point; if the idea at the genesis of the decision is to be safer, and the safer option involves feeling guilty, then feeling guilty for irrational reasons is something to address and correct, not a reason to take the less rational route.
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Old 05-29-10 | 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by electrik
If you would never forgive yourself having an accident on the bicycle... then you should stop. Irregardless of what is objectively safer.
Originally Posted by grolby
I thought the point was not getting killed, but apparently I wasn't reading between the lines.

Seriously, the OP is talking about being around for his family's future. That has not one rip to do with "self-forgiveness."
Sorry - I was putting electrik's words into the OP's gob. But I do think electrik has a point. Self-forgiveness is a good measure of what risk we (i.e. most of us, not the Spocks) are willing to accept. If I could forgive myself (or my ghost could) for taking the risk, then that's a risk I'm going to take. Of course, rando may see it differently, as you do. But it's very hard to assess these risks with specific reference to our own circumstances.
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Old 05-29-10 | 12:01 AM
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I've lost a couple of close friends in cycling accidents and it really threw me for a loop, too. It didn't stop me from riding though. But it did make me much more careful. I'm also far less confident in all that "cycling is relatively safe" stuff- it definitely has it's risks. Statistics change their meaning when someone close to you is suddenly one of the statistics.

I've also found that Bike Forums can contribute to a warped perspective around cycling. The endless helmet debates, the post-mortems of every bike crash in the country, in the world even, and every time one of us gets cut off, almost doored, right hooked, left hooked, buzzed- even if there was no injury or the slightest actual impact it gets written about in here. It can wear one down.

By all means follow your gut and if you need a break take one to assess. Do keep in mind that millions of cyclists all over the world are pedaling millions of miles just as you're reading this and all without incident. Hey, maybe it's not the safest thing in the world but neither is taking a bath.

Sorry such a needless tragedy struck so close to home.
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Old 05-29-10 | 12:18 AM
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Old 05-29-10 | 07:03 AM
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You can get killed doing anything.
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Old 05-29-10 | 07:18 AM
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Good replies so far. In the end, it is a personal decision. But remember that cycling is not just for commuting, it is also for your general health. You have to weigh the accident risk against the health risk. What are you going to replace it with?

buzzman makes a good point about the risks being warped. I rode motorcycles before I came here. Sure enough, every time a motorcyclist was taken out by a cager, the story was posted on the motorcycle forum. There are members all over the country, and in our case, quite a few international cyclists too.

I crashed the motorcycle in November and broke the heck out of my leg. Decided to give it up before I killed myself. It was a logical to me, because the crash was my own fault, and if I were on a bicycle, it wouldn't have happened. However, I might have been hit by a car instead. Cars are safer than either by a huge margin, not only because people are mentally set up to look for cars, but also because of the protective cage. But I think your quality of life will go way down if you walk or drive everywhere. You have to weigh that against the risk of getting hit while biking.

Now forgive me for touching a delicate subject. It may or may not matter, but maybe there is something to be learned. Was your friend wearing a helmet? Did it have any influence over the outcome?

To your point about being the breadwinner and another poster's response, I can confirm that there is more to it than money. If you have great life insurance, your wife & kid will grown up without a husband and father. That is much worse than any lack of money. I have over $300k worth of life insurance, and I used to kid my wife that she will be rich if I bite the dust, but she didn't find it funny at all.

Now that I bike instead of ride motorcycles, I doubt it is any safer. If I crash due to my own fault, I'll probably be better off due to lower speeds, but I'm putting my life in other motorists' hands a lot more often. If I'm driving, I'll die of heart disease from being out of shape.

I think the answer is to cycle carefully, and just as a back-up, make sure you have good life insurance.
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Old 05-29-10 | 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by rando
Thanks, guys. it really shook me up.
Sorry buddy, you gotta do what you think is best for you, but I can't pat you on the back and say "there, there" and tell you that you are doing the right thing. Things happen to people all the time doing all kinds of activities. Yeah, some might hit pretty close to home, if not right at home, and it's ok to take a step back and say "whoa"...but then we move on and don't let shoulda, woulda, coulda, what-ifs dictate how we live our lives.
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Old 05-29-10 | 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by grolby
That makes no sense. If the idea is to avoid (to the greatest possible extent) a life or career-ending injury, than whichever one is safer absolutely MUST be regarded. Which one it is I don't know, but geez. It actually does matter.
Naw, you're not safe. Ever. Once you understand that the equation becomes different. Life your life how you wish.

I should explain further - for the OP if he wouldn't be able to mentally deal with some guilt of getting into an accident and losing his income then he should immediately take what ever "safe choice" he feels is going to be the right one. This really only appeases him on the surface as there are no guarantees, particularly when it comes to driving or cycling. Maybe the odds are better or different in the car, but those would just be the odds after the fact.

Last edited by electrik; 05-29-10 at 07:50 AM.
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Old 05-29-10 | 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by electrik
Naw, you're not safe. Ever.
Duh. That wasn't the point. It's still safer to (say) work in IT than fish for king crab. If running the odds out in your favor is the goal, finding out where those best odds are is necessary for meeting it. Doing that may not be possible. But that's the point.

The best advice in this thread so far was the post advising the OP to buy life insurance. No matter he goes with, that's a good idea.
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Old 05-29-10 | 08:02 AM
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From the linked report: (emphasis = mine)
"Jay was killed biking home from work more than a week ago in Tempe. Investigators said he was hit by a car as he rode through a crosswalk at McClintock and Alameda drives."

If he was riding through a crosswalk, does that mean he was riding the sidewalk?
Was he riding in direction of the flow of traffic? Contraflow (even on the sidewalk) puts you where drivers aren't looking...even when they are paying attention....just adds another layer of danger.
That being said, He may have been hit if he was a Pedestrian, too.
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