New Cross Check Build (yawn)...
12-29-10 | 12:15 AM
#51
Velocommuter Commando
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,683
Likes: 38
From: Houston, Texas
Bikes: '88 Specialized Sirrus, '89 Alpine Monitor Pass, two '70 Raligh Twenties, '07 Schwinn Town & Country Trike, '07 Specialized Sirrus Hybrid
The bike should be disc ready, with the retrofit and the new disc specific fork, in a week. I'm thinking about a few things on which I would appreciate an educated opinion.
1. I don't know of many disc specific 700c wheelsets for commuting and light off roading (part of commute), do you? I've thought about Mavic Speedcity's or Velocity Elvs rims, anyone used these? Any other recs for a wheelset.
2. I'm stuck between Sram Rival or the new black Shimano 105 5700 for a group. Also, I think I'll go compact with a 50/34 up front. Any reason not to?
3. Several people that have had matte black bikes have personally told me that they are very hard to keep clean (even for fingerprints.) I've started to think about a rich cream color (gloss) with black decals, or possibly army green? I know this is personal preference, but I thought you might want to throw your two cents in. Any thoughts?
4. Between a rock and a hard place on the Brooks B17. I have an opportunity to buy a new one for $60-$80 on Craigslist, but I am used to the Fizik Aliante. The bike will be set up with drop bars and a road group, mainly for a 40 mile commute a couple of times per week, with some weekend training use as well. Brooks or no Brooks?
1. I don't know of many disc specific 700c wheelsets for commuting and light off roading (part of commute), do you? I've thought about Mavic Speedcity's or Velocity Elvs rims, anyone used these? Any other recs for a wheelset.
2. I'm stuck between Sram Rival or the new black Shimano 105 5700 for a group. Also, I think I'll go compact with a 50/34 up front. Any reason not to?
3. Several people that have had matte black bikes have personally told me that they are very hard to keep clean (even for fingerprints.) I've started to think about a rich cream color (gloss) with black decals, or possibly army green? I know this is personal preference, but I thought you might want to throw your two cents in. Any thoughts?
4. Between a rock and a hard place on the Brooks B17. I have an opportunity to buy a new one for $60-$80 on Craigslist, but I am used to the Fizik Aliante. The bike will be set up with drop bars and a road group, mainly for a 40 mile commute a couple of times per week, with some weekend training use as well. Brooks or no Brooks?
Can't answer for the first three; however, I believe you answered 4 on you own. If you use a Fizik Aliante and it works for you then don't mess with success. If you want to make the jump to a Brooks then buy it from someplace with a liberal return policy and try it. If it doesn't pan out then put the Fizik back on and send the Brooks back.
12-29-10 | 02:08 AM
#52
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 15,105
Likes: 4,754
From: Beaverton, OR
Bikes: Yes
Regarding the wheelset, you don't need anything road-specific for the Cross Check. That is, it'll take 135mm hubs, which opens your options a lot.
I built a set of wheels with SRAM X.9 hubs and Salsa Delgado Cross rims. I'd definitely recommend the hubs -- after around 1000 miles of use split between rainy commuting and off-road riding, they're still spinning as smoothly as the day they came out of the box. The rims, I'm not so sure about. The seam has become quite visible. It's possible they weren't up to the stress of disc braking (which would be understandable since they're not a disc-specific rim). If I were to do it again, I'd probably spring for Mavic TN719 rims. Go with DT Swiss Competition 2.0/1.7/2.0 spokes and brass nipples.
I built a set of wheels with SRAM X.9 hubs and Salsa Delgado Cross rims. I'd definitely recommend the hubs -- after around 1000 miles of use split between rainy commuting and off-road riding, they're still spinning as smoothly as the day they came out of the box. The rims, I'm not so sure about. The seam has become quite visible. It's possible they weren't up to the stress of disc braking (which would be understandable since they're not a disc-specific rim). If I were to do it again, I'd probably spring for Mavic TN719 rims. Go with DT Swiss Competition 2.0/1.7/2.0 spokes and brass nipples.
12-29-10 | 08:31 AM
#53
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 963
Likes: 2
From: Orange County CA
Bikes: Surly CC, Raleigh Team Pro, Specialized Rockhopper with an xtracycle
Did you switch to the CR720s up front because of noise issues or some other reason? I replaced the Tektro Oryx Cantis on my CC since they were squeaky as hell. A set of Paul Touring Cantis were far more solid and quiet as a mouse (even w/koolstop Salmon pads). Spendy but made in USA. The CR720s are a solid middle ground I understand.
4. Between a rock and a hard place on the Brooks B17. I have an opportunity to buy a new one for $60-$80 on Craigslist, but I am used to the Fizik Aliante. The bike will be set up with drop bars and a road group, mainly for a 40 mile commute a couple of times per week, with some weekend training use as well. Brooks or no Brooks?
New build on a new Cross Check. Parts off a IRO ss cx bike that I'd built up and used as a commuter for 5k+ mi. Built this up with expanded gearing and now have to find a way to pay for frame building class in March... so uber commuter will probably go before I have a chance to use it in its current guise.
12-29-10 | 12:15 PM
#54
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Here is my Robin's Egg Blue Cross check set up for commuting.
https://www.houghfamilyblog.com/?p=3263
https://www.houghfamilyblog.com/?p=3263
12-29-10 | 01:14 PM
#55
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,552
Likes: 135
The bike should be disc ready, with the retrofit and the new disc specific fork, in a week. I'm thinking about a few things on which I would appreciate an educated opinion.
1. I don't know of many disc specific 700c wheelsets for commuting and light off roading (part of commute), do you? I've thought about Mavic Speedcity's or Velocity Elvs rims, anyone used these? Any other recs for a wheelset.
2. I'm stuck between Sram Rival or the new black Shimano 105 5700 for a group. Also, I think I'll go compact with a 50/34 up front. Any reason not to?
3. Several people that have had matte black bikes have personally told me that they are very hard to keep clean (even for fingerprints.) I've started to think about a rich cream color (gloss) with black decals, or possibly army green? I know this is personal preference, but I thought you might want to throw your two cents in. Any thoughts?
4. Between a rock and a hard place on the Brooks B17. I have an opportunity to buy a new one for $60-$80 on Craigslist, but I am used to the Fizik Aliante. The bike will be set up with drop bars and a road group, mainly for a 40 mile commute a couple of times per week, with some weekend training use as well. Brooks or no Brooks?
1. I don't know of many disc specific 700c wheelsets for commuting and light off roading (part of commute), do you? I've thought about Mavic Speedcity's or Velocity Elvs rims, anyone used these? Any other recs for a wheelset.
2. I'm stuck between Sram Rival or the new black Shimano 105 5700 for a group. Also, I think I'll go compact with a 50/34 up front. Any reason not to?
3. Several people that have had matte black bikes have personally told me that they are very hard to keep clean (even for fingerprints.) I've started to think about a rich cream color (gloss) with black decals, or possibly army green? I know this is personal preference, but I thought you might want to throw your two cents in. Any thoughts?
4. Between a rock and a hard place on the Brooks B17. I have an opportunity to buy a new one for $60-$80 on Craigslist, but I am used to the Fizik Aliante. The bike will be set up with drop bars and a road group, mainly for a 40 mile commute a couple of times per week, with some weekend training use as well. Brooks or no Brooks?
Take a ride on both a Rival equipped bike and one with 105 and figure out which one you like better. Different shifting action between them, quality is about on par. Personally, I don't think you can go too wrong with either. The 105 looks a bit more refined, especially the new stuff.
Matte black will definitely show dirt a lot easier than just about any other color. Cream will also not be the cleanest looking without at least semi-regular cleaning. Go army green if you want decent looks without washing the bike all the time. But either of the other colors look better. Gloss is way easier to clean than matte...
Have you tried a brooks before? If not, might as well give it a shot since you can get the saddle at a decent price. You won't know if you like them or not til you try one out...
01-04-11 | 09:35 PM
#56
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 403
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From: Texas
Bikes: '06 Litespeed Siena
Thank you for the feedback, lots of good tips. I'm now playing with the idea of an IGH, probably an Alfine 11 Speed with a belt drive. I did ride the SRAM and I like the Rival better than the 105. Any thoughts for or against an IGH with a belt drive for commuting, light off roading, and some road training and city riding? I do have a road and mtb, and this would not replace those, but would be used on shorter training rides, etc. on the road.
01-04-11 | 10:36 PM
#57
Born Again Pagan
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,241
Likes: 2
From: Southwestern Ontario
Bikes: Schwinn hybrid, Raleigh MTB
Thank you for the feedback, lots of good tips. I'm now playing with the idea of an IGH, probably an Alfine 11 Speed with a belt drive. I did ride the SRAM and I like the Rival better than the 105. Any thoughts for or against an IGH with a belt drive for commuting, light off roading, and some road training and city riding? I do have a road and mtb, and this would not replace those, but would be used on shorter training rides, etc. on the road.
Your frame would require a split of some sort in the drive-side rear triangle for the belt drive to work. I see that the frame has semi-horizontal dropouts, so proper tension could be achieved, but alignment would take some figuring (but wouldn't be impossible). I think it would be a shame to cut up such a pretty frame, but if you're planning to change the paint scheme anyway I'm sure you could add a coupler of some kind to the seatstay.
01-05-11 | 06:37 AM
#58
afraid of whales
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,306
Likes: 6
From: Front Range, CO
If you're changing the dropouts (as stated earlier) this is a good time to use a dropout that allows you to split the rear stays for belt drive. The Alfine 11 should be a good choice for a road/trail bike, the steps are even, eveyone that has a belt drive learns to use it and then loves it. JTEK is coming out with a barend shifter so drops will be easy to combine with Afine 11. I have a drop bar IGH bike for the road, I'm thinking about changing the frame to a Vaya so I can have a Thudbuster and rear disc:
01-05-11 | 06:47 AM
#59
afraid of whales
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,306
Likes: 6
From: Front Range, CO
re: fork and dropout change on Surly CC for disc brakes
I saw some pictures of a Surly CC with disc tabs added, stock fork and stock dropouts left in place:
- Front fork had disc tab added to front right fork blade, compensates for rear facing dropouts
- Left chainstay had disc tab added to top to chainstay, stock dropouts left in place, allows standard rear rack.
I looked at my frame (Schwinn Sports Tourer in picture above) and I could add a disc tab to the chainstay, I might have to loosen one of the caliber bolts to remove the rear wheel. Would allow me to use my large collection of regular rear racks too.
I saw some pictures of a Surly CC with disc tabs added, stock fork and stock dropouts left in place:
- Front fork had disc tab added to front right fork blade, compensates for rear facing dropouts
- Left chainstay had disc tab added to top to chainstay, stock dropouts left in place, allows standard rear rack.
I looked at my frame (Schwinn Sports Tourer in picture above) and I could add a disc tab to the chainstay, I might have to loosen one of the caliber bolts to remove the rear wheel. Would allow me to use my large collection of regular rear racks too.
01-06-11 | 08:31 PM
#60
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 403
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From: Texas
Bikes: '06 Litespeed Siena
Thanks for the feedback Mr IGH. I didn't realize that I would have to change my dropouts. I really don't want to do that. I think I saw the same CC as you, but that owner used a CC fork and added tabs. I am using a disc specific fork (dimension) and having disc tabs retrofitted to the rear stays, along with cable guides on the rear stay. I think I'll leave the dropouts alone in the event I want to use it as a fixie or something else in the future. Again, thanks for the feedback, I had not considered having to change the dropouts for an IGH.
01-07-11 | 12:38 AM
#61
Born Again Pagan
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,241
Likes: 2
From: Southwestern Ontario
Bikes: Schwinn hybrid, Raleigh MTB
01-07-11 | 08:30 AM
#62
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 403
Likes: 0
From: Texas
Bikes: '06 Litespeed Siena
Oh, ok. I get it now. That's why someone recommended a coupler on the stay. I might be able to pick up a new Force crank/bb, Rival shifters/derailleurs/chain, and Force brakes (which I will re-sell) all for about $500. Although I don't need Force, that's a pretty good deal I think. And I wouldn't have to modify the frame any more than is already being done.
My fear is that I am already modifying the left stay for the disc, so I'm not sure I want to cut on the rear of the frame any more than that.
Thanks guys, I'm slowly receiving an education on this stuff. Another stupid question, are clamps interchangeable on a front derailleur? The one this guy is selling has a 35mm, and I would need a smaller clamp.
My fear is that I am already modifying the left stay for the disc, so I'm not sure I want to cut on the rear of the frame any more than that.
Thanks guys, I'm slowly receiving an education on this stuff. Another stupid question, are clamps interchangeable on a front derailleur? The one this guy is selling has a 35mm, and I would need a smaller clamp.
01-07-11 | 10:43 AM
#63
Giftless Amateur
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,329
Likes: 846
From: MD / metro DC
Bikes: Cross-Check/Nexus commuter. Several others for various forms of play.
If you're going all stealth matte black, I highly recommend the black Alfine (8 or 11) and a black crank (e.g. Sugino).
Consider building your own wheels and adding a dash of color using anodized nipples.
This bike is clearly not something that is being driven by any sense of normalcy, sheer practicality, economy, etc. So go over the top and bump up the freak factor. Plus, build your own wheels so you know you did whenever you ride it. I did on my similar labor of love a few years ago -- CC, Brooks, IGH (Nexus 8 red band then), disc front (BB7), etc.
I'm glad Mr. IGH clued you in on the frame break requirement for the belt. And the IGH is all good even without the belt.
If you haven't done the rear disc mod already, then I would recommend you think it over again and maybe go with canti rear (perhaps get the brake bridge mod, though not needed) and disc front. It's really a good thing. But if you are going to go all over the top, consider sliding dropouts ICW your disc mod to let you belt up. At some point, this thing stops being a CrossCheck, but your call what that point is, Dr. Frankenstein. Happy project and many happy miles once you nail it.
Consider building your own wheels and adding a dash of color using anodized nipples.
This bike is clearly not something that is being driven by any sense of normalcy, sheer practicality, economy, etc. So go over the top and bump up the freak factor. Plus, build your own wheels so you know you did whenever you ride it. I did on my similar labor of love a few years ago -- CC, Brooks, IGH (Nexus 8 red band then), disc front (BB7), etc.
I'm glad Mr. IGH clued you in on the frame break requirement for the belt. And the IGH is all good even without the belt.
If you haven't done the rear disc mod already, then I would recommend you think it over again and maybe go with canti rear (perhaps get the brake bridge mod, though not needed) and disc front. It's really a good thing. But if you are going to go all over the top, consider sliding dropouts ICW your disc mod to let you belt up. At some point, this thing stops being a CrossCheck, but your call what that point is, Dr. Frankenstein. Happy project and many happy miles once you nail it.
01-07-11 | 10:56 AM
#64
Older than dirt
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,342
Likes: 3
From: Winchester, VA
Bikes: Too darn many.. latest count is 11
Ummmm.. My Vaya has vertical drops. You mean the CC has horizontal and the Soma and Vaya don't, right?
To the OP..
I have a matte black bike. What you've been told about keeping clean is true. Plus if they get scuffed, it's actually shiny.. and you can't easily get the matte back
And I just put the 5700 Shimano on the Vaya build. It's nice stuff. The SRAM is nothing to sneeze at, if you're looking at equal product lines then the SRAM equivalent of 105 is actually Apex.
To the OP..
I have a matte black bike. What you've been told about keeping clean is true. Plus if they get scuffed, it's actually shiny.. and you can't easily get the matte back
And I just put the 5700 Shimano on the Vaya build. It's nice stuff. The SRAM is nothing to sneeze at, if you're looking at equal product lines then the SRAM equivalent of 105 is actually Apex.
Last edited by CCrew; 01-07-11 at 11:03 AM.
01-07-11 | 11:05 AM
#65
Older than dirt
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,342
Likes: 3
From: Winchester, VA
Bikes: Too darn many.. latest count is 11
Depends on the derailleur but usually no. Some however come in 34.9 with spacers for the other sizes smaller that go inside the clamp. You could also go to an adapter clamp that allows you to go to a braze on derailleur and then clamp size only pertains to the adapter
01-07-11 | 11:33 AM
#66
sniffin' glue
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,177
Likes: 0
From: Seattle
Bikes: Surly crosscheck ssfg, Custom vintage french racing bike, Bruce Gordon Rock & Road
01-07-11 | 06:19 PM
#67
Born Again Pagan
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,241
Likes: 2
From: Southwestern Ontario
Bikes: Schwinn hybrid, Raleigh MTB
There come in both chain and belt versions, and complement the hub perfectly. I have had zero issues with mine (although I have the silver crank and black hub).
01-07-11 | 07:49 PM
#68
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 403
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From: Texas
Bikes: '06 Litespeed Siena
Figured you guys would be tired of reading this already, but thanks so much for the notes. A couple of things..I'm back to thinking about a group. I may buy the Force/Rival group as listed above, but I learned today that I can't just change out the chain rings to compact rings because of the bolt pattern spacing. So, I might buy it anyway (it's such a good deal) and sell the crank on ebay, and buy a compact crank...hopefully come out even.
But now the front d adds another issue with the clamp. So I'll have to think this one out. As I mentioned before, I'm rethinking the matte black. Thinking about army green or a cream or khaki color with all black components on either one.
Man that Alfine crank is sweet looking. I'll take a little more time to think about the groupo and wheels.
The frame is actually being worked on this weekend. Jeremy (www.galluscycles.com) is adding the disc tab and stabilizing the rear stay, and also removing the cable stops on the top tube and adding more 'disc friendly' stops. Should be done sometime next week. I'll take some pics of his work before I send everything to the paint shop. This is kind of fun.
But now the front d adds another issue with the clamp. So I'll have to think this one out. As I mentioned before, I'm rethinking the matte black. Thinking about army green or a cream or khaki color with all black components on either one.
Man that Alfine crank is sweet looking. I'll take a little more time to think about the groupo and wheels.
The frame is actually being worked on this weekend. Jeremy (www.galluscycles.com) is adding the disc tab and stabilizing the rear stay, and also removing the cable stops on the top tube and adding more 'disc friendly' stops. Should be done sometime next week. I'll take some pics of his work before I send everything to the paint shop. This is kind of fun.
01-08-11 | 12:17 AM
#69
Born Again Pagan
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,241
Likes: 2
From: Southwestern Ontario
Bikes: Schwinn hybrid, Raleigh MTB
01-09-11 | 10:32 PM
#70
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 403
Likes: 0
From: Texas
Bikes: '06 Litespeed Siena
Sweet looking bike, irclean. I went ahead and emailed the frame builder to see what a coupler on the stay would cost, and whether he would recommend it given that we are already adding the disc tab and stabilizer, don't want too much stress on the rear triangle. We'll see what he says.
Given this guy's experience (linked below), the belt drive tensioning, etc., will work with the CC dropouts (just not with frozen ice and snow.) I live in Texas and won't be riding in the elements. https://mnbicyclecommuter.blogspot.co...elt-drive.html
Edit: irclean, if you have a rear flat, how hard is it to get the tensioning back on the belt after changing the tire?
Given this guy's experience (linked below), the belt drive tensioning, etc., will work with the CC dropouts (just not with frozen ice and snow.) I live in Texas and won't be riding in the elements. https://mnbicyclecommuter.blogspot.co...elt-drive.html
Edit: irclean, if you have a rear flat, how hard is it to get the tensioning back on the belt after changing the tire?
Last edited by crdean1; 01-09-11 at 10:45 PM.
01-10-11 | 12:25 AM
#71
Born Again Pagan
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,241
Likes: 2
From: Southwestern Ontario
Bikes: Schwinn hybrid, Raleigh MTB
Sweet looking bike, irclean. I went ahead and emailed the frame builder to see what a coupler on the stay would cost, and whether he would recommend it given that we are already adding the disc tab and stabilizer, don't want too much stress on the rear triangle. We'll see what he says.
Given this guy's experience (linked below), the belt drive tensioning, etc., will work with the CC dropouts (just not with frozen ice and snow.) I live in Texas and won't be riding in the elements. https://mnbicyclecommuter.blogspot.co...elt-drive.html
Edit: irclean, if you have a rear flat, how hard is it to get the tensioning back on the belt after changing the tire?
Given this guy's experience (linked below), the belt drive tensioning, etc., will work with the CC dropouts (just not with frozen ice and snow.) I live in Texas and won't be riding in the elements. https://mnbicyclecommuter.blogspot.co...elt-drive.html
Edit: irclean, if you have a rear flat, how hard is it to get the tensioning back on the belt after changing the tire?
The best way to tension the Carbon Drive belt is to use our tension gauge. If you don’t have a gauge, you can use the “force/deflection” method. Press down in the center of the belt span. The belt should move approximately ˝ inch with 5-10 lbs of force.
The first time I had to check I placed a 7-pound weight on the belt and looked for a half-inch of deflection. Since then I have become comfortable with checking it by feel. I would buy the tool, but I can't justify the 45 bucks when my bike seems to be working just fine. It would be a nice luxury to have in my toolbox, though.
You'll find a lot of good information on the Gates Carbon Drive website: https://www.carbondrivesystems.com/index.php?lang=us
Last edited by irclean; 01-21-11 at 12:48 AM.
01-13-11 | 09:22 PM
#72
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 403
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From: Texas
Bikes: '06 Litespeed Siena
What up? So I figured out a group. I bought a bike tonight for the group and wheel set, and I may end up keeping the frame, it's pretty sweet. It's a 2009 Salsa La Cruz (pics below). The bike was built up with full Rival compact, Mavic rims, Avid BB7's, XT disc hubs, etc.
So I'm going to use the Rival group and components for the CC, then decide to keep or sell the Salsa frame. Anyway, this will give me something to commute on until the frame is finished. I'm also adding a frame split on the stay so I will have the option in the future to run a belt drive and IGH. The frame won't be done for another couple of weeks.
Anyway, here are the pics of the bike I am 'using' in the mean time, that I bought for the group. I'm sure she'll feel cheated when I strip her and move on. Or, I might just fall in love and keep her around. I'm a sucker for orange.
So I'm going to use the Rival group and components for the CC, then decide to keep or sell the Salsa frame. Anyway, this will give me something to commute on until the frame is finished. I'm also adding a frame split on the stay so I will have the option in the future to run a belt drive and IGH. The frame won't be done for another couple of weeks.
Anyway, here are the pics of the bike I am 'using' in the mean time, that I bought for the group. I'm sure she'll feel cheated when I strip her and move on. Or, I might just fall in love and keep her around. I'm a sucker for orange.
01-14-11 | 06:32 AM
#73
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,552
Likes: 135
Rack: Bontrager (Trek) Backrack I
Yes, eyelets on the fork for front rack.
Now sold *sob*, you might see it around the Dallas TX area.
01-20-11 | 08:27 PM
#75
Senior Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 333
Likes: 0
From: Rocklin, CA
Bikes: Trek Domane, Soma Smoothie, Surly Big Dummy/Pacer/KM/Ogre, and a revolving collection of vintage stuff
I have 105 on my Crosscheck with Avid Shorty brakes, Open Pro rims/Ultegra hubs, and an FSA Energy crankset. I have a Surly Pacer for a commuter bike, and it's got a Tiagra group with downtube shifters and Tiagra brake levers (this is also where my Brooks went). These are great frames. Not the fastest, but they'll get you where you need to go without issue.