Actually hands on my grips puts me in a position similar to where they would be while in the drops of a drop bar, not on the tops. The position I lack is the upright position that riding on the tops provide drop bar riders.

I would have wider bars, but I had to cut them down to ~19" when one end got crimped in a crash.

...and if you like to ride along lazily, there's nothing better than drop bars, I won't argue that point.

Not really. From a height standpoint maybe, that all depends on where people position their bars, - which varies quite a bit. Some might be higher, some might be lower.

With your hands on your flat bars where the shifters are, you tend to bend your elbows out to the sides, - which increases your frontal area and drag. The same is true when somebody is riding on the tops with drops. But on drop bars if you have your hands on the hoods or in the drops, your elbows bend downwards allowing your arms to stay tucked.

I should qualify the above to say that it's harder to keep your elbows bent downward vs outward when on the tops. It's certainly possible. I think what most people do when riding on tops or on flats is to not bend their elbows much at all, which makes them sit more upright.

I can only say that it's a problem for me, and for a few other people I know. There seems to be some nerves and...well I don't want to say arteries, but some sort of blood flow through the area between the thumb and fingers, and my hands often feel a little numb after a ride, regardless of how much I switch hand positions. Do note I said "a little numb" - it's not usually more than an annoyance, it's nothing "dangerous" or anything, just annoying.

I'm not actually entirely sure what you mean here - I can't imagine a position with drops where your whole palm is is contact with the bars while you haven't changed the wrist angle.

It takes some effort to keep your hands in the palms back position, but it also takes some effort to keep your back in the right position with curly bars as well, so I would often call that one a draw. Changing hand position for comfort is something regular people do all the time, supporting their body weight with their back is not.

As I said, I can only say that personally I can get a flat bar setup where I keep my hands in the right position and my hands never get numb, whereas I've never been able to get a dropbard setup that's 100% comfortable every ride...usually end up with some sort of ache in my hand on at the end of at least half the rides. It's not a huge deal, I just personally haven't found drops to be more comfortable.

This may be an issue caused by the shape of the hoods. I get a similar numbness from my Shimano levers (DA 7700 to be exact) but not with SRAM or Campy levers.

Hmm...that's interesting...maybe I'll have to try one of the others sometime here.

Yes really, and you've explained why quite succinctly in this quote.

It's all about reducing drag and as TT bikes prove, you can make a flat bar bike very aerodynamic. However, most flat bar bikes are hybrids and the geometry is all wrong to get good aerodynamics. A true flat bar road bike can be made as aerodynamic as a drop bar road bike if the handlebars are low enough, narrow enough, and far enough forward. How far you want to push it versus what's comfortable is up to you. Also, what % difference it makes will depend on your air speed. At low speeds, it doesn't make much difference. At high speeds, it makes a lot of difference. Way too many variables to quote accurate numbers. In your case, it could be 2% or it could be 20%. It depends.

On my way home tonight, I passed someone on a beautiful CF flat bar road bike. Turned out to be a Pinarello Prince with what appeared to be 58cm bars. It even had a bar end mirror on it. I have nothing against flat bar bikes, but that was like painting a mustache on the Mona Lisa. So sad...

Are you talking to me? How do you know where my elbows are when I ride!? The idea that flat bars force a rider to stick his elbows out is preposterous. Have you ever observed a mountain bike race?

The traffic, cars, and road don't change when you're riding a fancier bike vs a cheaper bike. So wanting to be able to see behind you doesn't change either.

I really wish huge handlebar mirrors were considered cool looking on a bike...I got a new car and the big side mirrors are *so* great for seeing behind me, wish I had them on my bike.

Stick your arms straight out in front of you with hands positioned like you're gripping your narrow flat bars. Then either pull your hands toward you or lean forward by bending your elbows downwards. Make sure your palms stay parallel to the floor. Not so easy is it? If you're like me, your thumbs will want to rotate upwards.

No try the same thing with your palms perpendicular to the floor like they would be in the hoods or the drops. See what I mean?

Mountain bikers don't have their hands straight in front of them, they're farther out to the sides because their bars are wider.

Good post

Didn't Warhol do that, mustache on the Mona Lisa, to great critical acclaim? I spotted this Lemond Ti road to hybrid conversion today. Be happy!

Just a clarification. I've never seen a TT bike with flat bars. They're a combination of bullhorns and aero bars.

As the OP on this thread, I'm thrilled to see so may responses. Some of y'all had the same question that looks to boil down to the same thing...how fast do I want to go?

The answer is that I want to go as fast as I can for the amount of strength and endurance I have at a comfortable riding angle. Why go 15mph when I could go 17mph?

The SUB40 is a great bike and pretty darn fast for the money. In fact, it's probably perfect for what I'm doing with it (a 10-mi commute and kid-trailer-pullin' duty). However, I have the opportunity to dream because "stock sucks" and somebody else is always faster

Thank all for your recommendations. I will look at every suggested bike.

Rob, sorry. I get carried away defending flat bars, it's a problem. I haven't used drop bars for a long time, I know they're much improved (integrated shifting).

You could build up a flat bar road like the titanium one above or a nice steel one, which is probably going to be faster than an off the shelf hybrid. Among the flat bar road bikes, I've heard Specialized Sirrus is worth a look. Trek FX are very popular. I have a Marin Mill Valley that's pretty fast.

You probably don't need a new bike though. That Scott looks pretty fast. Maybe you can change your stem to put you in a lower position. Light wheels is the easiest place to reduce the weight which helps a lot on hills.

Are my elbows sticking out?

Is that a flat bar?

Looks like bullhorns to me. Or flat bars with bar ends. In either case, his hands aren't positioned where they would be on your bars if you wanted to operate the brakes or the shifters. His palms are (mostly) perpendicular to the floor like they would be on the drops or on the hoods, not facing down like they would be on a flat bar or the tops of a drop bar.

That's why I'm contending that your flat bar position is more like the tops on a drop bar.

His stem is a lot taller and shorter than mine. I get a lot lower.

I contend that my flat bar is more like the drops because I positioned the grips where I would have put the hoods if I had installed drop bars. Sorry if I'm repeating myself. If my hands are level with the hoods, they are a bit lower than on the hoods and a bit higher than in the drops, not like the top of the bar. At least that is what I was trying to do.

I'm talking about the second position here (via sheldonbrown.com):



Really? For me there's maybe a 10 degree rotation difference between where my hands hang and how I hold them on the hoods -- less if I'm using a flared bar like the Salsa Bell Lap, which I often am.


If you're supporting your body weight with your back while riding a bike you're doing it wrong. That sounds like poor bike fit to me.


Given your personal testimony I can only fall back on my prior theory that your arms are attached wrong.

A bit. Much more so than this guy:



But not nearly as bad as this guy:

I've met Paul and I can say with full confidence that he is not misshapen in any significant way.

You're welcome Paul.

I'd recommend swapping the flat bars either for Nitto Albatross bars or moustache bars. Either will give you more hand positions and riding up right than with a conventional flat bar.

hahahahaha :-D

Instead of arguing among ourselves, we really ought to be harshing on hipsters putting BMX riser bars on track bikes.

I have to admit I did not think of that. I think "flat" bars still apply pressure more evenly, and across your whole palm rather than part of your palm there, but that is more than I was thinking was possible.

Though the issue with that is that your hands are no longer on the brakes.


I'm not sure how this applies to my assertion that it takes some effort to keep your back in the right position vs keeping your wrists in the right position.

This is the very reason why (some) people prefer a flat bar over curly bars - their experience that the curly bar bikes are harder on their back.

I've gone to 2 different, recommended and expensive, bike fitters. They both told me that I should work on my flexibility - specifically with my back - in order to be more comfortable on my bike...