Originally Posted by neotheone

I thought about buying panniers, but instead I just bungee corded a Milk crate to my rack.

Originally Posted by giskard

Well the Bug arrived and I fitted it on the rack, it's a slightly better fit than the Ortlieb Vario as the lower securing hook is attached to a more flexible bungee rather than the stiff rubber strap used by the Vario (which just didn't work to secure to lower part of the bag). However, with the Bug mounted as far back as possible on the rack, I've found that the bag does move forward about 1cm which is enough for heel-strike to occur. I'll try wrapping some insulating tape around part of the rack to prevent the movement but the Arkel's cam-lock fixing system doesn't strike me as being as durable or as secure as the Ortlieb systems. I did try to pull the Bug off the rack but it stayed put, but after years of use I wouldn't be surprised if the spring-loaded cam-lock mechanism became weaker, but only time would tell I guess.

For me though, the Bug is a bit disappointing given the price - it has no inner pocket or organiser which is essential for a commuter bag; granted you can buy a separate laptop bag with mesh pockets but this adds an extra £26 to an already expensive bag. The addition of a mesh organiser pocket inside the outer zippered compartment would be a great improvement to the Bug.

But it does seem that convertible pannier/backpacks all seem to suffer from the same problem, that the lower securing system is always a hook on an elasticated strap and unless that hook can be fixed directly below on the rack then the bag will move as it's pulled forward by the elastic strap. Unless your rack has horizontal dog-legs long emough to allow the elasticated hook to be attached vertically with the bag mounted at the furthest rear position on the rack, then you're more likely to encounter problems - I think a rack like the Tortec Expedition would work well in this case so maybe I should have bought one of those instead of the RackTime AddIt, but I didn't want a full-on touring rack for my commuting bike.

For bikes with short chainstays (435mm on my bike) and for riders with large feet, the elastic strap is more likely to be an issue, as I've found, so I'm starting to think that I'm better off just getting giving up on the convertible backpack/pannier and just plump for the Ortlieb panniers with their rigid QuickLock adjustable lower fixing system which would (I think) alleviate the issue with the pannier moving forward.

If The Ortlieb Vario and Arkel Bug dispensed with the elastic lower securing strap/hook and used a moveable plastic clip to secure the lower part of the bag, there'd be none of the issues I've encountered.

Originally Posted by JohnJ80

I also find the Bug virtually impossible to move on the Addit rack when the cams are engaged. It's locked on there.

Also, have you adjusted the position of the hooks, You should be able to adjust the hooks so that it's almost an extreme mount with the bag hanging off the back of the rack.

So I'm thinking something isn't quite right or it is attached incorrectly. Are you sure you have the cams set up properly? Is the release strap properly attached to the cams (if it isn't, the cams won't operate properly). Also, did you adjust the hooks to sit the bag aft on the rack?

Originally Posted by JohnJ80

I cannot conceive of how a bug with the maximum load you could reasonably put in it, could even move if the cams are properly locked on the rack.

Originally Posted by Ziemas

It's sad that when someone points out that you are clearly not doing something correctly, and offers advice based on long term experience with an item you take it as an insult.

Originally Posted by Ziemas

Saying that something is faulty becasue you can't figure out how to properly install it (How many racks and panniers haven't you been able to use? How many did you buy and return?) doesn't help anyone.

Originally Posted by Ziemas

There is no logical reason aside from user error why neither of these panniers will work for you

Originally Posted by Ziemas

Oh, and I wasn't talking about the mesh pockets; I was talking about the three zippered pockets on outside the Bug. Maybe you should spend a little quality time with your Bug and get to know it before you post your internet reviews. Urgh.

Originally Posted by Jimi77

LOL, thanks for Pendantic thread. I'm looking for a rack too and this saved me from starting my own Pendantic thread.

I'll probably go with the Topeak rack. I have a GT and unfortunately the funky frame looks like may present a challenge, but I won't know until I have the rack in hand. Good luck with the rack and panniers.

Originally Posted by giskard

I appreciate the advice and feedback I've received in this thread and you mentioned the RackTime Addit and the German vendor from who I ordered my Addit. I found your response saying that I should "Go find someone to teach you how to properly set up your panniers" patronising, rude and given that you know very little about me, ignorant.


Are you actually reading and understanding my posts? I've never said anything was faulty nor have I been unable to properly install it, but what I did say was that the Vario and Bug the bags I tried didn't work for me, not because I'm unable to fit them properly, but because there are heel strike problems because the bags move on the rack when I attach the lower securing hook.


How about the size of my feet? That's a logical reason and obviously one you've failed to consider.


The Bug 2011 doesn't have the zippered pockets you mention, just mesh pockets either side and nothing at the front other than the helmet holder and a small open pocket behind that. Arkel have changed the Bug since you bought yours years ago but you obviously didn't consider that before posting your patronising response.

Major user error.

Originally Posted by giskard

The bag is loaded with a change of clothes and a few odds and ends so the load is pretty light. If your Bug is empty, does it move along the rack when clipped on?

Originally Posted by Ziemas

BTW, there is no need to be a dick when someone is giving you advice, even if you don't like that advice.

Originally Posted by JohnJ80

BTW, there is no need to be a dick when offering advice either.

J.

Originally Posted by Ziemas

As it is, you have two panniers and can't seem to mount either of them on your rack

Originally Posted by JohnJ80

Do your cams look exactly like this and are they in the proper position (not upside down) when locked to the rack?

Originally Posted by Ziemas

I tried giving good advice and got a nasty response becasue it wasn't what the OP wanted to hear. Too bad for him.

Originally Posted by giskard

Yes, they do and they are. Referring to the image you posted, when I pull the handle up the cams end up oriented facing from the outer sides of the hook, releasing the handle allows to springs to move the cams back towards their resting position and lock against the rack tubing. If you're saying that in that position the bag shouldn't move at all, even when applying some force to the side of the bag, then maybe the springs aren't applying enough force to the cams to lock the bag in place?

I might take this up with Arkel directly, just in case my Bug is faulty, though I'm pretty sure it isn't. There's no problem mounting it on the rack, just that it moves forward with the bungee hook attached.

Thanks for your ongoing help and patience.

Originally Posted by giskard

How on earth do you come to that conclusion?? Have you actually read my posts? All of your responses indicate that you're not processing and understanding what I've said previously and that's your problem, not mine, so I'd rather not waste any more of my time.

Originally Posted by giskard

Well, I've fitted the RackTime Addit to my bike, clipped on an Ortlieb Vario to see how well it fitted, and was disappointed. Whilst I can fit the bag further back on the rack to minimize heel-strike, I couldn't secure the lower part of the bag because the elasticated hook (not a bungee, just a rubber strap) can't be positioned at an angle to hook on to the rack. I tried a number of adjustments of the mounting system but to no avail, so the Vario is going back to the shop. I've also ordered an Arkel Bug so I'll see how that goes, hoping it'll work better than the Vario so I'll be able to use it on my daily commute.

Originally Posted by giskard

Well the Bug arrived and I fitted it on the rack, it's a slightly better fit than the Ortlieb Vario as the lower securing hook is attached to a more flexible bungee rather than the stiff rubber strap used by the Vario (which just didn't work to secure to lower part of the bag). However, with the Bug mounted as far back as possible on the rack, I've found that the bag does move forward about 1cm which is enough for heel-strike to occur. I'll try wrapping some insulating tape around part of the rack to prevent the movement but the Arkel's cam-lock fixing system doesn't strike me as being as durable or as secure as the Ortlieb systems. I did try to pull the Bug off the rack but it stayed put, but after years of use I wouldn't be surprised if the spring-loaded cam-lock mechanism became weaker, but only time would tell I guess.

Originally Posted by JohnJ80

It's easy to get the webbing that ties into the cams messed up if you use the release handle as a carrying handle. Then the cams don't operate correctly.

J.

Originally Posted by Ziemas

These two posts lead me to the conclusion that you have two different panniers, neither that you know how to properly mount on your rack. Hopefully with trial and error you'll be able to get one to work. Remember that the further forward the hooks are on a pannier the further back it sits on your rack. Heel strike shouldn't be a problem.

Originally Posted by magohn

I love the Topeak system on my Trek Fx 7.3 Disc. Why? Because when I arrive at my destination, its literally a press of the quick-release mounting and the whole bag slides off the rail and I can take it with me in 2 seconds. The panniers also fold up into the main compartment. The extra bottle carrier doesnt hurt either. Great engineering!

Originally Posted by JohnJ80

I'd love to see a picture of that on your rack.

J.