question about "taking the lane"
 

when you say "taking the lane" you literally mean popping into the traffic lane and riding as if you were a car? middle of the lane? I'm new to cycling and I did this today. I did it especially when I came to an intersection in which the cars traveling in the lane with me have the option to go straight, right or left. I signal which way I'm going with my hand. I felt really exposed out there, waiting for the light to change with a car in front of me and a car behind me.

When I'm not approaching an intersection, I generally ride about 5 feet from the sidewalk, technically in "the lane", but cars can get around me with minimal effort.

So is that what ya mean by "taking the lane?" Pardon my ignorance, I just want to avoid ending up as the subject of a sad post in the advocacy and safety forum

Taking the lane:

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...els/horse2.jpg

Riding in the middle of the lane as if you were a car. If you are more in the middle of the lane, drivers won't have the (completely mistaken) idea that they can just squeeze in between you and traffic in the other lanes - they will realize "wow, he's so far out there I have to actually change lanes to pass." Which they will do and not think about again, as it's not really a big deal for them to do. The fact of the matter is that when you check clearances and such, even if you're right by the sidewalk, cars still will have to go into the opposite lane to pass you by a bit - that creates a hazard, and they'll tend to pass you unsafely close to try to get away with it. If you "take the lane" and ride far enough toward the center that it's very obvious that there will be no such squeezing, they will have to treat you like a slow moving car and thus, make sure there isn't anything in the lane they will have to pass by going into.

If you're riding decently fast, cars generally won't give it a second thought when you're doing that; if you're slow they'll be more irritable, but you'll still be safer than if they were squeezing past you or turning in front of you with you off the road.

OK thanks! but what about one lane roads? and this is another topic entirely but aren't you guys worried about those idiots that are texting and driving? I guess a driving looking at his/her phone is equally as likely to hit a car OR a cyclist though...

I just don't want to be taken out by Sarah so and so because she was texting Candice about how that dirtbag Ryan was cheating on Cassandra, o...m...g

If by one lane roads you mean one lane in each direction, it's the same. In this case the driver will have to slow down behind you if the oncoming lane is occupied.

Even texters have to come up for air every few seconds. When they do they will see you as relevant to their line of travel and take more care, probably stop texting until they pass. Wear bright colors and use a mirror.

Honestly, being clipped by a motorist who thinks they can "squeeze by" when there is not really enough room is more likely than one running into a rider who is clearly in their path.

ah, thanks for the info everyone. think I'll feel a bit more confident out there tomorrow

This mirror helps when in the lane.

http://www.messengermirror.com/

I'm willing to bet that the cyclist in the picture is in the traffic lane temporarily until he is past the equestrians at which point he will move back over the fog strip. Stopped at a light waiting to turn left isn't the best example I don't think. In such a situation I move over so I am out of the direct path of a collision between two cars. At a light waiting to turn left that would be on the drivers side. YMMV but I have not found it a problem in many years of doing so, to ride as far to the right as possible when being overtaken. Most drivers in my area will still pull over the centerline. Most. Not all. However, even the ones who don't haven't hit me or clipped me with a mirror. Driving lanes are a lot wider than many of you act like they are. Getting in the lane and forcing them to pass you "properly" will only infuriate most drivers and IMO that is when cyclists get clipped. Make it easy for them to pass you and they will do it in a manner that endangers no one.

H

Where in these United States is that ever the case? Seriously, I'm not being a smartarse. I have yet to see the road that isn't wide enough for a car and bicycle to fit. Obviously a motorist isn't going to mow down a bicycle directly in his path but he will want to. I find it interesting that the same cyclists who won't run stop lights or stop signs because it "upsets" motorists want to treat said motorists to extended viewings of their backsides until they feel safe enough to pull off and let them by. Guess which behavior riles them more.

H

Hi

I take the lane as per the 10 Wheels photo when riding multiple lane roads or where I feel it is necessary, e.g., slow point. I recently recorded some videos on my experience of doing this. The related blog posting can be found here.

Regards
Andrew

I generally stay in the right tire path. If I get too far right cars do try to squeeze through. If it is absolutely unsafe for them to pass me, like on a couple of hills they can see over till we top them, I get over to the left a little more so they dont try. I try to stay as far to the right as is safe. That does not mean riding in the right turn lane with the intention of going straight at an intersection or something. And it can mean merging left accorss several lanes of traffic. I just stay as far right as is safe, but not too far right.

I dont belive most the lanes on any road I ride to work on are wide enough for both me and a car. If they are dumb enough to try to squeeze though, they are too dumb for me to want to share a lane with them. The times I have the most trouble getting buzzed is when I am too far right.

That white hatchback seemed to cut it pretty close in overtaking you. Other than that, most drivers in Aussieland seem to play pretty nice...at least in your neck of the woods.

Wish I could ride that fast! :D

When I take the lane on a higher speed road, i'm usually in the right tire track. I'll only use the actual center if I'm stopped at a light, or in a turn lane.

Maybe because the issue is whether the lane is wide enough for a car and a bike to share safely, not the entire road. If the lane is wide enough to share, share it - if not, own it.

If you haven't seen lanes that are not wide enough for a car and a bike to safely share, you may need to travel a bit more.

I stay in the right tire path most of the time, but not so close to the edge that I am riding in the debris line that collects on the side of the road. According to NC state law, cyclists are supposed to ride as far to the right as reasonably possible. That is the law, and I assume that a cyclist could be ticketed for blocking an entire lane -- plus, I think it needlessly ticks off motorists and slows traffic. I will take more of the lane when prudent for safety reasons, such as passing parked cars (where someone might door me) or riding through intersections (so someone won't right-hook me).

Much of the reason for taking the lane is to increase visibility. This can be accomplished better by other means -- wearing bright jerseys, using bright tail-lights all the time.

Glad you mentioned that. I have had a few right hook incidents lately, not real close but I had noticed the increase in them. One was with a motorcycel sitting right by me and car from the right lane and others I seen coming. What I was doing wrong that I will immediately fix is I have been stopping at lights real close to the curbs so I dont extend my calf so far, I just put my foot down on the curb. When it is really hot my calfs tend to cramp up, I drink lots of water but it still happens. Before I just stayed in the tire trail like normal. Goodness it is so easy to screw up.

[QUOTE=tarwheel;13032483]I will take more of the lane when prudent for safety reasons, such as passing parked cars (where someone might door me) or riding through intersections (so someone won't right-hook me).

QUOTE]

Using the full lane can sometimes be the most courteous course of action and actually relieve motorist and cyclist stress in some situations. Consider the following scenario which I have seen on numerous occasions. Narrow two lane road with oncoming and overtaking cars approaching a cyclist at about the same time. This cyclist, trying not to upset the motorists, is riding the far right edge of the road. When seeing him up ahead, the overtaking motorist continues on at speed because it looks like there may be enough space for him to pass. Only when he is just about to overtake the cyclist (with an oncoming car in the opposite lane) does he realize that there is not enough room. He then jams on the brakes and gets all upset.

When the cyclist is clearly taking up more space in the lane, it becomes apparent to drivers behind him much earlier that they will have to change lanes or slow down, giving them plenty of time to make adjustments in a safer and less stressful manner.

A lot of driver complaints are that cyclists are unpredictable, and / or that they fear hitting us, which of course none of them want to do. As cyclists it is our duty to be predictable and do everything we can to make it easier for everyone to share the road safely. Sometimes this means taking the lane, and sometimes it means motorists may have to wait for a few seconds. If this makes them overly upset they should not be on the road.

I tend to ride out in the lane on a two-lane road like that. I have a mirror so I know what's coming up behind me. When traffic approaches from behind, if the shoulder is clear of debris and other traffic, I will move over to the shoulder to give a car more room to pass. If the shoulder is not safe or clear, I remain in the lane. Around here, cars will generally just cross the double yellow center line to pass in the oncoming lane (even though it's technically illegal).

The default, though, is to take the lane so the motor traffic sees me out there. When it makes sense, I concede the lane to allow traffic to pass. It's a process of give and take. The way I see it, it's better to be out in the lane then move to the shoulder, than it is to ride on the shoulder and pop out to the lane occasionally due to debris, rough pavement, etc., because when I'm in the lane, approaching traffic more actively has to think about my presence.

In terms of communication, taking the lane says to traffic approaching from behind, "You need to change lanes to pass me." Riding near the fog line or on the shoulder says, "It's okay to pass me without changing lanes." If you don't think it is safe for a car to pass you without changing the lane, you need to take the lane to clearly send that message to approaching traffic.

I ride the fog strip on roads like that. I would take the lane just as the rider in the picture did, to get around the horses and return the fog strip after doing so. Same procedure whenever I pass a parked car. I don't waste my time determining if someone is in it or not, I take the lane. When the fog strip goes away (Around intersections) I take the lane. On roads with no fog strips I take the lane. I avoid roads with no fog strips but can handle myself when I do ride them.

All that said, I commute from one suburb to another with virtually zero urban riding so I do not have the same experiences that a lot of other regular commuters here on the BF do.

One riding technique that works well in many cases is to take the lane but then move to the right as traffic approaches from the rear. This forces approaching drivers to see you and start moving left, but gives them plenty of passing space. Works best if you also use a mirror.

You're not really a cyclist ... are you? Or maybe you've never cycled on the open road?

Fog line riders drive me nuts when I'm riding with a group. I don't trust that the road is going to be maintained so that the fog line is always rideable (if that's a word). Far too often there's a spot where the fog line disappears into broken pavement or a pothole. Further, Capt. Murphy will make sure there's a car coming up behind me when I spot it, and the driver is planning to squeeze by me in the lane, meaning it's not safe to go straight, and it's not safe to move left. That happens whether or not there's oncoming traffic, so the cager could move over if he knew it was needed.

That's why I ride the right tire track, or the middle of the lane if the pavement's better there. Safer for me, safer for the approaching driver who can evaluate whether it's safe for her to pass by moving over, or whether she needs to slow and pass two seconds later.

Each to their own. Riders out in the lane when there is a 3' wide fog line drive me nuts when I am driving.
I know that we have the right to the lane. I'm just sayin.

The lane offers no promises to be better and (here in MN at least) the lane is often in worse condition than the fog line. Also in a 3' wide fog line it's pretty easy to dodge a pothole or small debris.

Your way works too. Personally I feel safer in the fog line unless there is a large object like a parked car or a horseback rider to avoid.

Cheers

NC law requires using the right hand through lane when traveling under the posted speed limit, and it isn't specific to bicyclists. If travel lanes are not marked, then the as far right as practicable language kicks in. All sworn officers in the city of Raleigh have received computer-based/online training on bicycling issues which include the information that the bicyclist has the right to operate in the center of a marked travel lane, and that bicyclists cannot be cited for impeding traffic in NC. This information was also on the online test that they were required to pass. If any officer in Raleigh hassles you about riding near the center of the lane, politely refer them to the 2011 In Service Training module titled "Bicyclist Safety and Law Enforcement - Raleigh Edition" which they can read on RPDNet.

This month, Cary Police are currently receiving similar training, which I adapted for Cary. Cary PD invited me to give the bicycling training in person, in the form of four one-hour classes with 25 officers at a time. The first class was this past Tuesday and went very well. The officers appear to have have no objection to the idea of cyclists using the full travel lane; most of the questions from the officers centered around sidewalk cycling-related drive-out crashes, which are the most common crash type in Cary, as well as passing on the right. For example, one of the officers had just investigated a crash where a driver stopped behind the stop line, then inched forward across the crosswalk to get a better view of trafffic before pulling out. The bicyclist rode off the sidewalk from the right, and rode out away from the crosswalk into the roadway in front of the motorist, just as the motorist accelerated into a right turn. We decided that since the motorist had stopped and yielded first, he was was probably lawfully in the intersection before the cyclist left the sidewalk and entered the crosswalk. They were also riding contra-flow in the roadway at the moment of collision, but the legal issues for this crash may have more to do with pedestrian law than bicycle law.

I am also currently working with staff in Durham to create a version of the training customized for Durham Police. There has also been interest from Charlotte, and I eventually hope to get to Apex, where police have been pulling over cyclists who where lawfully riding outside the door zone of parked cars.

What if you get taken out because they thought there was enough room to pass you at 45 mph, but they were mistaken? The question isn't why they hit you, it's whether they did.

Exactly this. I do the same kind of commute and this is the exact type of riding style I have adopted. Without any role models mind you. Most usually I am on the fog strip only when actually being overtaken. There isn't usually much hard road on the right side of the strip but when there is, that's where I am. I am a long time big city cyclist so I can do urban riding as well. Most of the take the lane advocates do it out of fear. No, it isn't pleasant to be overtaken by two, three or more 3/4 ton pick-ups. The one's pulling horse trailers really make my hair stand on end. But the proof as they say is in the pudding. I and the poster I quoted are proof that this technique can work. Speaking for myself (and knocking real hard on some wood) I have not met with any of the road mischief so widely reported in "Advocacy and Safety". BTW. Re: being right hooked. I always stop a bike length or two short of the actual corner if it is clear I am going to get there ahead of cars planning to turn right. They can turn right on red here and they won't if I'm at the corner so I hang back and leave them to it. If I am slowing for an intersection with a car on my left I make sure they see me before I pull ahead. I have never been wrong (yet) about whether they see me or not. Part of it is because I am riding in Oregon. It was worth moving here to take advantage of the overall bike aware (vs bike friendly) culture of motorists in the Portland Metro Area. I have, however, commuted for years between Brooklyn and Manhattan in NYC. I am not a cycling wimp. I know when to take a lane or defend my space on the road. That is probably my key departure with vehicular cyclists. They, IMO want to empower a dogmatic approach to road safety in the theoretical abstract of legality. It does not translate easily where the rubber meets the road. Nor are all of you cycling in Portland, OR or its suburbs. I think its fair to say, however, that outside of big city urban centers most suburban and rural road users behave similarly. Cars feel entitled to unimpeded access to the road ahead. Cyclists should and can as far as possible, without surrender, strive to facilitate the smooth flow of traffic around themselves. Because flow it must and flow it will.

H

Riding the fog line is an invitation to pass you without changing lanes. If your lanes are wide enough for that (14 ft or greater), no problem, but if they are narrower, you are inviting others to buzz you. In fact I would say even if they are greater than 14 foot wide, you should ride out in the lane and move over to allow cars to pass, just to make sure they see you and perk up and put their cell phone down.

There just isn't a large body of evidence showing that this is in fact how any cyclists are killed or injured. Just about all of you drive. How many times have you tried to pass something when "there wasn't enough room"? What you really mean to say is: "What if you get taken out because there was room enough to pass when they started to overtake but you choked and left your line and got whacked with a rear-view mirror." At least twice on the morning commute on the back-roads I am passed in a way that makes my blood pressure spike. Where you think... sheesh... if I had bobbled just a little bit when that @#$@%$ was blasting by... ... but then I realize... anyone who would pass a cyclist that is on the fog strip like that would have been even more discourteous if they had actually been forced into oncoming traffic. And don't think they wouldn't. The really big trucks around here always pull fully into the oncoming traffic lane when they pass a cyclist. Must be the law or something. Thing is they do it even when the double yellow is solid on their side! They would never try to pass a car like that but they imagine they can get around a cyclist and back in the lane.... my level ground speed is usually around 18mph.... they probably think its 8mph! I don't personally want to be responsible for a 45mph head on collision before breakfast. So I work on keeping my line and maintaining my road speed under duress. Works for me.

H

If there is a fog strip like the one shown in the horse picture, then I am in it. If the fog strip is nothing more than a 1' strip of asphalt on the edge of the road (Usually what the fog strip dwindles down to at intersections), then that is no fog strip at all and I get out & take the lane.

To further clarify my intersection behavior, if I intend to go straight I do not occupy the right turn lane - I get in with crossing traffic.

lf the fog strip is wide enough I don't feel squeezed when a car or truck goes by. To me at least that situation is no different than riding in a marked bike lane on a residential street - Motorists already intuitively know that they are supposed to stay to the left of the white line. Anyone who squeezes the fog strip enough to worry me are people that I need to already be watching out for in the first place, regardless of where I am riding. Personally I find the advice from an earlier poster to ride in the lane using the right tire track to be a bigger invitation for a squeeze - when I take the lane, I take the middle so that there is no question that I am claiming it.

Good discussion guys, I don't disagree with much of anything that has been said, just sharing my MO! :thumb: