are you a law abiding citizen?
08-11-11 | 02:55 AM
#51
Senior Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 9,352
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From: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997
08-11-11 | 05:03 AM
#52
Je pose, donc je suis.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,898
Likes: 6
From: Back. Here.
I obey all traffic lights and other laws.
The thing I do NOT do is make a complete stop at stop signs especially and right-on-red turns. I have 6 stop signs on my commute. I put my foot down at 2 every time. 1 when there is traffic. The other three I usually blast through since I can see pretty far at those spots.
The thing I do NOT do is make a complete stop at stop signs especially and right-on-red turns. I have 6 stop signs on my commute. I put my foot down at 2 every time. 1 when there is traffic. The other three I usually blast through since I can see pretty far at those spots.
As for me, I roll stop signs all the time. I run reds that I know aren't going to trigger for me (legally, I have to wait two minutes, but I only have patience for 15 seconds if no cars are coming to trip the sensor for me). I'll gently roll a right-on-red.
08-11-11 | 05:07 AM
#53
Je pose, donc je suis.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,898
Likes: 6
From: Back. Here.
Educate yourself on how to trip stop lights. It's actually pretty easy. No need for cars.
08-11-11 | 06:44 AM
#54
Senior Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 8,896
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From: Raleigh, NC
Bikes: Waterford RST-22, Bob Jackson World Tour, Ritchey Breakaway Cross, Soma Saga, De Bernardi SL, Specialized Sequoia
Educate yourself on how to trip stop lights. It's actually pretty easy. No need for cars.
BTW, back to the original post, I try to abide by traffic laws, but will run traffic lights that do not trip. I also treat many stop signs as yield signs, after looking both ways twice. However, there are a couple of intersections on my route where I always wait for the light to turn green. They are too large, busy and dangerous to cross without a green light, and the sensors actually work at these signals.
Last edited by tarwheel; 08-11-11 at 06:47 AM.
08-11-11 | 08:29 AM
#55
Mad bike riding scientist
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 29,155
Likes: 6,211
From: Denver, CO
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
I'm guessing that not all traffic lights can be tripped by bicycles and/or motorcycles. That's why my state just enacted a "dead red" law.
I have two lights on my daily commute that I can not trip. And yes, I did the dead red thing even before the law. I also treat stop signs as yield signs when there is no other traffic present.
I have two lights on my daily commute that I can not trip. And yes, I did the dead red thing even before the law. I also treat stop signs as yield signs when there is no other traffic present.
Hahahaha .... good one! You obviously have not ridden the streets in Raleigh, NC. I know how to trip a traffic signal in theory. In practice, there are several on my route that will not trip for a bicycle, period. It doesn't matter how I position my bike or how long I wait. The light won't change unless a car comes along and trips it.
For single loop detectors, you have to follow one of the long legs for it's entire length.
Granted, you have to be able to actually determine where the detector is. That's not always possible but if I can see the wires (sometimes it's just a long linear depression in the pavement), I can trip them. Not just here in Colorado, either. If you want a list, I've ridden in 35 of the 50 states and haven't had a state yet where I couldn't trip the lights.
__________________
Stuart Black
Dreamin' of Bemidji Down the Mississippi (in part)
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Dreamin' of Bemidji Down the Mississippi (in part)
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
08-11-11 | 08:47 AM
#56
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 909
Likes: 2
From: The Path to Fredvana
Bikes: Long Haul Trucker 2010 , Felt Z90 2008, Rans Rocket 2001, Specialized Hardrock 1989
For me, it's not really about being in a hurry to get to my destination. I'd just rather be riding than standing at a light, especially when there is no traffic. In some cases, when there is traffic approaching from behind but the side streets are clear, it actually seems safer to carefully proceed through a red light or stop sign. Being passed by vehicles as you negotiate an intersection, or feeling their impatience if you choose to take the lane (my usual strategy), makes me nervous. I wish we had signals that allowed cyclist to have a short head start to clear the intersection, like I've seen in Denmark.
Another point is that in some cases I'll choose a side street that parallels one of the major connectors in town to stay away from traffic. These streets have stop signs virtually every block, which is why cars don't use them to get across town. I'd rather take my chances on the busy thoroughfare than come to a complete stop every block, but being on that street annoys drivers far more than rolling stop signs on the parallel street, so I use the side street and roll cautiously through stop signs.
Another point is that in some cases I'll choose a side street that parallels one of the major connectors in town to stay away from traffic. These streets have stop signs virtually every block, which is why cars don't use them to get across town. I'd rather take my chances on the busy thoroughfare than come to a complete stop every block, but being on that street annoys drivers far more than rolling stop signs on the parallel street, so I use the side street and roll cautiously through stop signs.
I take pride in my trackstands!
08-11-11 | 10:31 AM
#58
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2011
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Likes: 2,642
From: CID
Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)
Overall, I try to be law-abiding and considerate, but it's situational for me. There is one large intersection in particular where the green light is rarely in my direction, and I would have to zigzag across three lanes to use the pedestrian signal, so I usually go when the coast is clear. And it's uphill on the way back. 
I'll have to play around with the sensor thing.
I'll have to play around with the sensor thing.
08-11-11 | 11:32 AM
#59
Senior Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 9,352
Likes: 4
From: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997
It really does work. I have a traffic light not far from where I live. If I position myself in the center of the loop nothing happens. If I position myself on either the left or right side of the loop I can trip it.
08-11-11 | 11:32 AM
#60
Je pose, donc je suis.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,898
Likes: 6
From: Back. Here.
08-11-11 | 11:39 AM
#62
Senior Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 9,352
Likes: 4
From: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997
I follow the traffic laws as best as I can manage when driving either my car or my bike. I do this for safety and to set a good example, as well as to protect my integrity in the eyes of the police, city employees, and students I've worked with on cycling safety and enforcement issues.
I've had no traffic tickets for decades now (last one was at age 18 or so). I've never been in a car-car or a car-bike crash.
I'm lucky that the traffic laws here don't discriminate against me in a way that would require me to break them for my own safety. The law here allows me to ride in the middle of the travel lane or ride outside a striped bike lane whenever I see fit to. If the law prohibited me from using the center of the lane I would probably violate it frequently and hope I didn't get stopped.
Group rides have been a source of frustration for me, however, when they roll through stop signs at speed. If I find myself in the middle of a pack on a large group ride, I create a hazard if I stop and nobody else does (and they don't). I try to get out of the pack so I can stop, but this is often difficult. On rides that I lead, I stop at stop signs, and encourage other participants to do so, with mixed results - some cyclists won't stop after gentle encouragement and I don't want to be heavy-handed or start arguments. Fortunately, the vast majority of my cycling miles are solo or with my kids.
I've had no traffic tickets for decades now (last one was at age 18 or so). I've never been in a car-car or a car-bike crash.
I'm lucky that the traffic laws here don't discriminate against me in a way that would require me to break them for my own safety. The law here allows me to ride in the middle of the travel lane or ride outside a striped bike lane whenever I see fit to. If the law prohibited me from using the center of the lane I would probably violate it frequently and hope I didn't get stopped.
Group rides have been a source of frustration for me, however, when they roll through stop signs at speed. If I find myself in the middle of a pack on a large group ride, I create a hazard if I stop and nobody else does (and they don't). I try to get out of the pack so I can stop, but this is often difficult. On rides that I lead, I stop at stop signs, and encourage other participants to do so, with mixed results - some cyclists won't stop after gentle encouragement and I don't want to be heavy-handed or start arguments. Fortunately, the vast majority of my cycling miles are solo or with my kids.
My question is would the organizer be willing to pay either the hospital bills, or fine if a cyclist is either hit by a car while running a light/stop sign or if they're stopped and ticketed by a LEO?
08-11-11 | 11:47 AM
#63
Senior Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 9,352
Likes: 4
From: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997
Then repeat with county level laws on up.
08-11-11 | 12:53 PM
#64
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,077
Likes: 4
From: Cary, NC
Bikes: 1983 Trek 500, 2002 Lemond Zurich, 2023 Litespeed Watia
Hahahaha .... good one! You obviously have not ridden the streets in Raleigh, NC. I know how to trip a traffic signal in theory. In practice, there are several on my route that will not trip for a bicycle, period. It doesn't matter how I position my bike or how long I wait. The light won't change unless a car comes along and trips it.
FYI Here's an example of a calibration rig I built for adjusting signals to detect bikes:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...19e6c7d&type=1
And a good article from FHWA on the subject: https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications...s/08may/02.cfm
08-11-11 | 01:57 PM
#65
No one carries the DogBoy
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,320
Likes: 2
From: Upper Midwest USA
Bikes: Roubaix Expert Di2, Jamis Renegade, Surly Disc Trucker, Cervelo P2, CoMotion Tandem
I run stop signs technically, since I tend to do rolling stops if nothing is coming. I will also run an uninterrupted lane at a T crossing with a light. When driving I tend to also do rolling stops and I tend to do about 5ish mph over the limit always. I'd say I'm a mild offender both in car and on bike.
08-11-11 | 06:44 PM
#66
Senior Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 9,352
Likes: 4
From: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997
To those who think that "no one" notices the actions of cyclists. You're wrong, today while on my ride which includes two laps around The Pier. As I'm heading down for my first lap, one of the security guards thanked me for stopping for the stop sign.
08-12-11 | 03:59 PM
#67
Banned.
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 501
Likes: 0
From: Jamis, WA
Bikes: Jamis Aurora Elite
This is just a matter of curiosity here.
Do you as a bicycle commuter Really abide all traffic laws? I mean as a cyclist one of the bright sides is being in that venn diagram between being in a car and being a pedestrian.
obviously i don't mean be reckless and weave in and out of traffic and endanger yourself. but for an example if you're at a red light, and there are no oncoming cars, will you run it?
Do you as a bicycle commuter Really abide all traffic laws? I mean as a cyclist one of the bright sides is being in that venn diagram between being in a car and being a pedestrian.
obviously i don't mean be reckless and weave in and out of traffic and endanger yourself. but for an example if you're at a red light, and there are no oncoming cars, will you run it?
In general I am a law abiding citizen for a couple reasons. The primary one is safety. The more closely I adhere to the traffic laws the less likely I'm going to be in an accident and there have been several accidents with bikes this year in Seattle with many bad outcomes. The second reason is I don't take an us-versus-them attitude with cars. If the law applies to them then it applies to me. I get no special treatment here. Having said all that, if I'm in the lazy suburbs or country -- yeah -- I'll bolt through that red after I've slowed considerably down and am sure it's safe to cross. I'm no saint but I'm much more likely to be saintly in the city as I feel my life depends on it.
08-12-11 | 04:45 PM
#69
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
The only traffic law I break regularly (while on a bike) is a no turn on red. Especially if the motorists waiting at the light are going straight, there's no reason for me to not split to the right and turn. At stop signs I'll usually make a very slow rolling stop, and at lights I usually stop. Even on my way to work in the morning I relax and follow most laws, because I'm not worried about time.
08-12-11 | 05:53 PM
#70
Kid A
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,778
Likes: 5
From: Alexandria, VA
There are an aweful lot of responses that read something like:
"Yeah, I follow all the rules....except when it doesn't make sense to do so".
Think about what you're saying people -- you either follow all the rules or you don't. I don't think that some of the rules that apply to cars should also apply to cyclists, but it is what it is. I break laws.
"Yeah, I follow all the rules....except when it doesn't make sense to do so".
Think about what you're saying people -- you either follow all the rules or you don't. I don't think that some of the rules that apply to cars should also apply to cyclists, but it is what it is. I break laws.
08-14-11 | 04:15 AM
#73
stupid after seven
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 135
Likes: 0
Another point is that in some cases I'll choose a side street that parallels one of the major connectors in town to stay away from traffic. These streets have stop signs virtually every block, which is why cars don't use them to get across town. I'd rather take my chances on the busy thoroughfare than come to a complete stop every block, but being on that street annoys drivers far more than rolling stop signs on the parallel street, so I use the side street and roll cautiously through stop signs.
I see traffic laws, perhaps, in the same ways I see grammar "laws" for authors: first know the rules, then you can know when it's okay to break them.
And, yeah, a little part of me grins whenever I roll through a stop sign, for I was a "Stop at Every Sign" rider before I started riding every day. Such a rebel now!
08-14-11 | 07:38 AM
#75
Mad bike riding scientist
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 29,155
Likes: 6,211
From: Denver, CO
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
There are an aweful lot of responses that read something like:
"Yeah, I follow all the rules....except when it doesn't make sense to do so".
Think about what you're saying people -- you either follow all the rules or you don't. I don't think that some of the rules that apply to cars should also apply to cyclists, but it is what it is. I break laws.
"Yeah, I follow all the rules....except when it doesn't make sense to do so".
Think about what you're saying people -- you either follow all the rules or you don't. I don't think that some of the rules that apply to cars should also apply to cyclists, but it is what it is. I break laws.
__________________
Stuart Black
Dreamin' of Bemidji Down the Mississippi (in part)
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Dreamin' of Bemidji Down the Mississippi (in part)
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!