Not tripping the sensor for service would be both the more logical and honest answer then the usual claim that it is for our own "safety."

Although one would have to think that considering that there are fewer fast food joints then there are sensor controlled intersections that it would/should be "cheaper" for fast food joints, banks, pharmacies, etc. to install video cameras so as to monitor their drive-thrus and know when there is and isn't a customer that needs service.

Also if they're only going to serve customers who are using a "motorized vehicle" then they need to have those signs clearly posted on the menu board and NOT at the window where one pays for or picks up their food. I mean what is the point of doing that?

I do recall some years ago seeing motorcycles and/or scooters, or mopeds inside various stores. Even today I see a number of motorcycles and/or scooters or mopeds being parked on the sidewalk instead of out in the parking lot.

I'm not saying that they're right or that they're wrong for doing what it is that they're doing. Only the people who do it as well as those who allow them to do so can say.

Also as I have said numerous times, in my case in most of the stores that I do business with I have had owners/managers come outside and tell me to bring my bike inside. So given that should I do what some here suggest and leave my bike outside or accept their hospitality and bring my bike inside and park it?

Are you serious? Yes it may be technically and legally private property, but it is private property which the public has been granted access to. And please explain to us how a customer coming inside a business and parking their bike inside while they conduct their business has somehow "abandoned" their bicycle?

Now if the person came into the store and brought their bike inside, conducted their business then somehow "forgot" that they had ridden their bicycle and left the store/business without their bicycle and didn't return until weeks/months later. Then you could make an argument that they'd "abandoned" their bicycle. But a person who is conducting their business at a store or other type of business after having brought their bicycle inside can hardly be accused of "abandoning" their bicycle. And I do not think that that would fly so well with the police or courts.

Particularly if the bike was stolen after the employee placed it outside or if either directly or indirectly because of the employees actions the bicycle was damaged in someway.

The same can and should be said about peoples cars. But as we've seen in other threads motorists see their car(s) as an "extension" of themselves. So do I think most cyclists see their bicycles/steeds as an "extension" of ourselves. So if drivers do NOT want their "precious" cars damaged by "slap happy" cyclists then they likewise need to respect other peoples bicycles as well and not touch them just because they happen to be someplace where they don't think that they belong.

Also in regards to the OP, how does the employee know that the owner/manager hasn't given the customer permission to bring their bicycle inside? It was wrong and presumptuous of the employee to remove the bicycle.

And just because people are apparently nice/nicer where you live. There are people in other areas such as NYC who take a VERY dim view of having their personal property manhandled by the help.

Again, why? The employee had no business whatsoever in touching the property of a customer. As I've pointed out for all the employee knew the customer in question might have had permission from the business owner/manager to bring their bicycle inside. If that was the case wouldn't the employee look worse then foolish for having removed the customer's bicycle?

Also as I have said, I have the permission of the owner(s)/manager(s) to bring my bicycle inside. That doesn't however mean that all of the employees "automatically" know this.

Actually, I think that you are wrong on that point. I remember seeing on one of those "People Court" spin-offs/clones where a woman who used either a wheelchair or motorized scooter (like a Hovaround) was banned from a local grocery store because she was unable to exercise reasonable care while in said store. She was constantly running into displays knocking them over breaking merchandise, running into people and injuring them, etc.

The "judge" hearing the case IF I remember correctly sided with the business owner in banning the woman from the store. So yes, whereas wheelchairs, etc. are generally "protected" under some sort fair access legislation. But IF the user of such a device cannot use reasonable/do care in the operation of said device(s) then a business owner/manager should be able to ban said person(s) from their business.

Likewise as I believe I've said in another thread, while I was in NYS taking care of my Grandmother I observed an employee from a "box store" approach a customer with a non-traditional service animal, telling them that they had to leave. When the customer informed them that the animal was a service animal the response from the employee was "but you're not blind."

Thus showing his ignorance to the fact that only dogs serve as service animals or that only the blind use service animals. After the employee walked away shaking his head (again IIRC) I went over to the customer and told them that if they wanted I'd be happy to be a witness for them. They thanked me and said that it wasn't necessary, but thanked me for the offer.

Agreed, when I take my bicycle inside I always look for somewhere where it won't be in the way to park it. And as I've said before on a number of occasions I have had the owner or manager of the business come outside and tell me to bring my bicycle inside.

So again to those who do not advocate our bringing our bicycles inside stores/businesses should I (or others who are also so lucky) ignore their instructions and leave my bicycle outside?

Huh?!? Unless there are signs posted both in and outside of the business instructing people not to bring their bicycles inside. How/why would the customer/owner of the bicycle be subject to arrest? That makes as much sense as the 65 yr old gentleman from a thread in the A&S forum being arrested for defending himself when he was jumped by 3 thugs.

There are members who think that the victim used excessive force by using his gun to defend himself. Despite the fact that the thugs had him outnumbered 3:1. Even "worse" there are members who think that he should have fired a "warning" shot first.

Which if one thinks about it, goes against just about everything one is taught about using a gun/firearm. As one is taught NEVER to pull their weapon, or to point it at anything that they do NOT intend to shoot. And to never shoot to wound, shoot to kill.

None of this would be a problem if a bike rack was available. Whats it cost to install a bike rack. Those store owner or managers don't realize that bikes are expensive and that cyclers are pretty educated and well-off. We don't chose to ride because we can't afford a car. We chose to ride for the love. Sometimes they don't realize that we don't need to go to thier store. Especially if they discriminate.

The whole thing about your property being moved sucks because your property is on their property. Its just like having a strangers car towed out your driveway/property. Do you have the right? Even if you disagree with their invisible policy.

Like I said ... please let us know how this works for you. :twitchy:

I'm not sure if you're serious, and I'd put the odds at 90 % that you're just trolling here. Nobody could possibly be as daft as you're pretending to be.

http://www.compliancesigns.com/media...-15703_300.gif

None of this would be a problem if yep202 hadn't left his bike unlocked and unattended. Did he ever say that there wasn't a bike rack?

And how do YOU know that the manager hasn't asked the "help" to bring the bike outside? Or created an overarching, zero-tolerance policy? You are being presumptuous here.

And what relevance does the politeness of people, dependent of region have in this conversation? Take a dim view if you want - beat the guy to pulp, see how that works out for you. Then you will be in the wrong twice.

Man this thread has some legs, considering the relative unimportance of it all. Bike was left unattended, store employee removed it. Lesson? Don't leave bike unattended. If store employee/managmement requests that you not bring bike in to the store, choose to abide and lock up your bike outside, ignore the request and continue shopping, or leave and shop elsewhere. What more needs to be said?

A good example of when a moderator should step in.

My two cents: lock your bike up where it is legal, safe, and not causing others a problem. It's a bike, so put a u-lock on it and lean it against a wall or tree or something.

Is that so hard to figure out?

Agreed, the sad thing is that some places don't see it as "discrimination." I also agree that it seems like too many people don't understand that for a lot of us that we ride for both the fun/love of it.

If a stranger parks their car on someone's property without permission, then yes, I would say that the property owner has the right to have it removed.

That is also what I'm saying in regards to people who use wheelchairs (motorized or otherwise) or motorized mobility scooters. If they pose a risk either to the merchandise of a store/business or their customers do AND should have the legal right to tell the person in the wheelchair, et al to leave their store/business. And they should be able to do so without fear that they'll have to face a lawsuit for violating the ADA.

That is a valid point. But hopefully if that is/was the case that the manager would also have ordered the employee to have an announcement regarding the bicycle before it was removed.

Just that in some area's people are ridiculously protective of their property. So much so that they'll resort to physical violence to defend it. Or sadly, there are also those who are ridiculously protective of their viewpoints and again will resort to physical violence to defend it.

Sadly, I have encountered some of those on my bike rides. They felt so strongly that I shouldn't be riding my bicycle on the road that they have actually stopped their cars, got out and actually challenged me to fight them. I of course have declined and have done my best to put as much ground as possible between me and them and to keep them from attempting to carry out their threats.

Again though as I have asked what about those who like myself who have been given permission to bring their bike inside? Do we ignore their generosity and park our bikes outside? Yes, I agree that one shouldn't assume that they can bring their bike into just any store/business. But any store/business that uses shopping carts/handtrucks, etc. or allow baby strollers and allow wheelchairs/motorized mobility scooters can't really cry over the potential "dirt," etc that might be tracked in on a bicycles wheels.

haha yeah I just saw that. I must have clicked on the wrong post my bad. But you get my point. Somewhere something got messed up. I just wanted to claify.

No, there is no bike rake. Only a bench where people go out and smoke on.

I dont think so. My bike is super clean. Thanks so post from people on bike fourms on how to clean your bike. Thanks to them.

Doohickie has the point..... If OP was worried about his bike he should have kept it with him or locked it somewhere secure.....

Well I would belive that with enough bikers or people wanting a certain idea to make there shopping exp. better then at some point a store would feel they should give in to there rules. they may even make a spot were you can bring your bike inside, lock it up and fell safe that your bike is inside out of the elements. I would ride out of my way for a bikers spot like that. heck add a camera faceing the bike rack to while your at it. why not add it to your adds that they spend so much money on. I mean comon would it be a big problem to put a bike rack inside. I bet if they would keep track of how my bikers use it they would more then likely make money from it. We got to start somewhere. Maybe starting with haveing a problem with shopping carts and other things isnt the best way to start. but like I said. We got to start somewhere. Those companys are not all bad. I belive sometime we will see something more for bikers as the number of bikers goes up. we can speed things up tho with the hard work.

Just a thought but what if you ran the idea of a bike rack to someone that could get that done. just the other day I ran that idea to my boss which he had no problem with but seeing as how I already have a place to lock it. He didnt see a need for it. but the idea is there and without it, he would have never thought of it. So with that being said I think with a lot of work and ideas and communication this would be possiable. We would like to park or bikes inside. If that would cut down on the number of cars in the parking lot in any place would seem like a good idea to me. Less spending on parking lots and more spending of "bike lots".

So what was the store manager's response when you called them and described what happened?

Unless the staff had permission from the owner of the bicycle to put it outside, they assume a duty of care when they move it -- that's why businesses have indoor "lost and found" departments rather than tossing things out in the parking lot.

The police typically won't arrest store staff for illegally moving or damaging customers' personal property, but the police report can be useful in civil claims against the business. (Good business insurance often includes bailee coverage specifically to cover loss or damage to the personal property of others left in the custody of the business. If something had happened to a bike put out in the parking lot without the owner's permission, and the owner had good documentation of it, there's a reasonably good chance the insurance company would simply pay the claim since the business was clearly in the wrong.)

Personally, I don't usually bring my bike into stores that have reasonable bike racks, but if a store doesn't have a rack and objects to bicycles inside, they won't get my business. There are plenty of businesses that welcome customer bicycles; I don't feel any need to support ones that don't. If a store does object to bicycles inside, they can post a rule or ask the customer to take the bike outside, but they can't simply put it outside in an unsecured location without assuming liability for loss or damage.