And since the employee watched the cyclist bring it in, he should have done the right thing by talking to the cyclist rather than playing his stupid game.

From a practical perspective the store employee did in fact take "possession" of the OP's bicycle. And how is taking said bicycle outside and then "taunting" the OP about "moving it within a stone's throw of where he left it?" As please explain that if the employee in question did not assume possession and control of the bicycle then how the hell did he move it? Does one not need to have something not only in their possession, but in their control in order to move it?

Okay let's look it like this, your neighbor sees your car, and sees that by the smallest of margins it is on their property, i.e. the front or rear bumper is just barely hanging over into their property. Your neighbor decides to get in your car and releases the brake so that he can push your car away from his property. In the process your car gets away from your neighbor and it injures a third party, crashes into another car, or your neighbor leaves the door open, someone gets in it and steals it. Who is at fault?

Uh, there is a big difference between moving something aside so that one can reach something behind said object and moving something outside and leaving it there UNSECURED. What would have happened if after the employee (apparently on his own) moved the bicycle outside the store the bicycle had been stolen. Especially considering that the store employee apparently did so on his own.

The store employee was being more than a "dork," he placed the store in a potentially embarrassing situation, and according to several members here that alone is grounds for termination. Even if it is done when the employee is off the clock. But in this case we have an employee who:

a) is ON the clock
b) is acting on their own "authority"
c) while acting on their own "authority" placed the store in a potentially embarrassing situation

It has been said here by other members that if an employee causes their employer to suffer embarrassment that that is grounds for termination. Even if done off the clock, which this was not the case. This is a case of an employee deciding to do something on their own and potentially embarrassing their employer.

You don't think that the employee approaching the OP and asking "Are you looking for a bike?" doesn't suggest in any way that the employee was attempting to "scare" or otherwise cause the OP distress?

For the record I do not think, short of an employee committing and being convicted of felony that what an employee does on their time is any business of their employer. If an employer wants to have that much control over their employees then they not only need to pay them 24/7/365 days out of the year, but they also need to provide them with a place to live, food, medical, i.e. take care of them as if they were children. As well as providing them with a list of clubs, organizations, activities, etc. that they can associate with and engage in.

Okay, let's look at this way. Your neighbor sees your shiny new car, and decides to move it a block away from your house. What is going to be the first thing that you do? Call the police and report your car stolen or go out walking around the neighborhood looking for it?

I'm willing to bet that the first thing that you're going to do is to call the police and report that your car has been stolen. As would any reasonable person, so why should the OP have to go looking for his bike instead of doing what any reasonable person would, and call the police and report that his bicycle has been stolen.

Using my experience as an example, given that I DO in fact have permission, authorization to park my bicycle inside of the store. What happens if a new employee seeing me bring my bike inside and they feel that I shouldn't be doing that they take it upon themselves to move it outside. Who is to blame if my bike is stolen, or damaged?

Me for having brought my bike inside (with permission) or the store employee who took it upon themselves to move my bike?

And I am sure that I am not the only one who has permission to bring their bicycle inside of the various stores that they shop at.

I would like to know that as well.

IF I was the employer of this store employee I would have fired him on the spot for his actions. If I was the employee I would stay as far away from the OP as possible. If I saw him come into the store I'd take my break, or I'd go to another part of the store and work on something there. But I would stay as far away from the OP as I possibly could. To include avoiding him if I saw him out in public away from the store.

Actually we don't know what kind of "aisle" that the OP left his bike in. It could have been aisle with products that the store is selling, it could have been an unused check out lane/aisle, or it could have been a lane/aisle where the store stores it's shopping carts.

And how is it NOT comparable? Both are vehicles used both for transportation and for recreation. Both are private property, and as such the store employee has no more right to move someones car or someones bicycle, without first finding the owner and asking them to please move it.

I find it more inconsiderate for a business ANY business not to provide adequate parking for ALL types of vehicles that their customers might choose to use to in order to go to their store. And if they do not provide adequate parking for all types of vehicles then they shouldn't be surprised when someone who chooses to use a bicycle as their primary means of transportation elects to bring their bicycle into the store for safekeeping.

And if an employee decides on their own to move a customer's bicycle outside the store and said bicycle ends up getting damaged or stolen then it is both said employees AND the stores fault and both should be held accountable.

Agreed, this whole thing could have been avoided IF the employee had been mature enough to approach the OP instead of playing as you put it "his stupid game." Given the very real potential to cause the store embarrassment and given that there are those here who think that that is grounds for termination. In this case considering that the employee was in fact on the clock I think that the employee should be fired if he hasn't already.

The bicycle was unsecured in the store too, or it couldn't have been moved. Anyone could have stolen it from inside the store. The act of the employee moving it may have made it easier, but it wasn't difficult in the first place. Kind of like if I leave my car running in front of my house vs a convenience store parking lot. It can be taken just as easily either place, but there's a slightly higher chance of being caught if you are in front of someone's house.

Guess I'll chime in too. I worked in retail a long time ago. Grocery store, convenience store and a service station. None of the stores I worked at would let you park your bike in the store. Although the service station would let you park it in the bay. None of them would take responsibility if something happened to your bike inside or outside of the store. All understood that regardless of policy the courts might see it differently.

We never moved anybody's bike. I could see it happening but it didn't. We always talked to the rider and explained the policy. If they refused to move the bike outside we refused service. End of story. Yes we lost sales at the convenience store. Not customers though. The same people would be back again.

I have seen stores that let people bring their bikes in. I like it and don't like it. I like the idea of not having to lock my bike everywhere I go. But I don't trust the store employees to watch my bike inside or out. So I want to lock it either way. Having been on other side of the counter I can see what priority the store will give to guarding my property. And I don't want to waste the time to sue the store 'cause they didn't.

Just my opinion.

Who's posted in this thread, and how often?
 

Digital_Cowboy = 44 posts :eek: :twitchy: :notamused:
MNBikeguy = 10 posts
Doohickie = 9 posts
yep202 = 8 post
tjspiel = 6 posts
Seattle Forrest = 6 posts
tractorlegs = 6 posts
EXCALIBUR = 6 posts
CACycling = 6 posts
contango = 5 posts

http://www.bikeforums.net/misc.php?d...osted&t=794273

First of all, the bike wasn't barely on the store's property. It was entirely on the store's property.

Second of all, presumably I'd have my car locked so my neighbor wouldn't be able to just jump in and release the brake. He'd have to break in.

If the car gets away from him, yeah he may be at fault for any injury but that has no bearing on what happened to the OP. Nobody was hurt, nothing was stolen. You could just as easily ask who'd be responsible if somebody had tripped over his bike while it was in the aisle. It might be store. If it is then moving the bike outside may leave them less exposed to a lawsuit. Replacing a bike stolen from a customer could be relatively cheap compared to paying for a broken hip, time off work, etc.

Back to your scenario, if the car gets stolen, I would tend to blame the thief. Of course I had apparently left the car unlocked since my neighbor was able to get in.


Again, this is not all analogous to what happened. If I park my car legally, leave it and come back to find it gone, yes, I'd assume it was stolen. My neighbor had no business moving it.

On the other hand, let's say I drive to a ballgame and I don't want to park in a regular lot because I'm cheap and I don't want to pay. I find an alley behind some nearby building and I park my car there. I don't see any signs prohibiting parking but I don't look real hard either.

When I come back, my car is gone.

I would assume that it had been towed. Would I have called the cops? Maybe, if there was no one available to talk to from the building first. Certainly not if within a few seconds or even minutes someone walked up to me and said: "Looking for your car?"

Now, who's responsible for any damage the car receives while getting towed or after it's left wherever they leave it? I really don't know. Not sure I really care either. My point is that the building owner is well within their rights to tow my car. If they had seen me park there, not said anything to me as I was walking away and just towed it, they'd be jerks of the first order. But I was the one who put myself in that situation, and I would be primarily responsible for what happened.

If like yourself the OP had permission to keep his bike in the store with him and an employee were to take it upon himself to move the bike outside, yes, the OP would have much more reason to be angry.

Given that we do not know exactly where in the store other then in an "aisle" the bicycle was left it was "secured" in the since that it was not left outside. And presumably someone (other than the employee who took it upon himself to move it) else also so the OP bring it inside and if some other customer attempted to move it they would have said something to them.

If you really believe that, then I agree with you that it was secured.

I don't believe anyone would have said anything or made any attempt to intervene if someone other than the OP were to take the bike. I've seen too many episodes of "What would you do?" to have much hope that the average bystander would intervene. In fact there was one episode where several people helped an individual trying to cut a chain or lift the chain over the sign post to steal the bike.

It was an example. People do all kinds of "crazy" things all time.

Granted most people do lock their cars but a lot of people do not.

Again, it was an example. You don't think that it's possible that the OP suffered some emotional distress from finding his bicycle having been "stolen?" And again that same "clumsy" person could also just as easily injure themselves on the bike when it's parked on the sidewalk, or out in the parking lot.

Using your example of your neighbor having broken into your car it would be your neighbors fault. And I am pretty sure that the courts have determined that just because a person leaves a car or home unlocked that it isn't an invitation to thieves to rob or steal it.

Other then having brought his bicycle inside the store we don't know that the OP did anything "illegal." And the store employee had no business in moving it.

When I was a kid we had a situation not too dissimilar to this. My father had told a friend of his that he could park in our driveway when he visited the bar across the street. Another patron seeing the friend park in our driveway assumed that he could do so as well. I told my father and he went out to let the second party know in no uncertain terms to move his car.

Again, I think that most reasonable people when after having parked their car, motorcycle, truck, or bicycle returned to where it was parked and not finding it where they left it would at first presume that it was stolen. And the correct thing to do when one honestly feels that their property has been stolen is to call the police and report it. And in this case the OP had a good suspect.

If you're talking about you parking it in an alley, I would say that you probably would be responsible for any damages.

In either case the employee should either be fired or at the least suspended for a length of time. If for no reason then as I've said we have members here who feel that if an employee causes their employer to be embarrassed that that is grounds for termination. And don't you think having an employee remove a customers bike/property going to cause the employer to be embarrassed?

Note added from personal experience:

Several years ago I had gone to a local grocery store to do some grocery shopping. This store did have a bike rack close to the doors. I locked my bike with it's trailer to the rack. When I came out and saw that my bike was NOT where I had secured it. I did NOT go around either the parking lot nor the neighborhood looking for it. Instead I called the police to report that my bicycle had been stolen. So I guess according to you because I didn't waste my time looking for my bicycle first that I "wasted" the time of my local police by calling them first.

This was also probably the first time that I had run into the bias against cyclists, as the officer who responded didn't seem to be taking my case all that seriously.

And there have also been plenty of those shows that people have stepped up and done the right thing, preventing a drunk woman from leaving a bar with a stranger, calling 911 seeing a "crying baby" locked in a car.

This is ridiculous. I could argue how do you know the employee wasn't the owner? What kind of cop car is ever used for recreation? And on and on... I am done with this thread.

AWESOME!!! 9 pages and counting on the "Dude, where's my bike?" post. This dead horse has been dropped, skinned, carved, rendered, and turned into glue, and yet is still attracting "arguments". BF is a beautiful thing.

I have been so traumatized by this thread. Tonight, I decided to walk a mile to and from my local S*feway to buy some ice cream instead of riding my bike. I dared not bring my bike into the store for fear of some employee taking "possession" of said bike.:(

I would've chimed in long ago.. but I can't even see why this is actually a thread.

If I recall correctly, there were people that didn't prevent the drunk woman from leaving.. but that has nothing to do with a random person leaving with a random unlocked bike.

I didn't see the crying baby one.

That would largely depend on the owner's attitude towards the employee and their attitude towards bikes in stores. I'll bet there are plenty of non-cyclists who would defend the employee's actions. The level of outrage your feeling over the employee's behavior wouldn't necessarily be shared by the general public. Believe me, I've dealt with some crabby customers and plenty would be far more outraged that there was a bike left in an aisle. There are people who will complain about the smallest things.

From my personal experience as a supervisor, I probably wouldn't suspend or fire an employee over a single incident such as this. I'd talk to them about it and if didn't happen again, that would be the end of it. If the employee were on the sh*t list already then there's a good chance it would be the last straw.

The fact the officer didn't take your case too seriously is one reason why calling the cops would not be first on my list of things to do. Even if it were a car that were stolen, it's going to take a cop 20 minutes just to get there and another 20 to get your story, meanwhile, the bike or car is getting farther and farther away.

But again, what happened to you is entirely different from what happened to the OP. The critical difference is that your bike was where it was supposed to be so no one would have cause to move it other than a thief. If I had left my bike in a store aisle, my first thought would be that an employee or customer moved it to get it out of the way. For all we know the employee may have moved the bike as a result of a customer complaint.

You should have locked the bike outside or ask if it's OK to bring it inside. This was not your store.
They guy shoud have asked you to remove your bike, not handle it himself. This was not his bike.

You were both wrong.

Adam - Good to see you back on the forum.

Thanks. Yeah, it's been a while.

Ok, this fourms has been going on a lot longer then I had thought. I talked to the manager a day after the bike was taking out of the store. This is the convo. Ring Ring Ring Store Hello, Kroger This is ......... How may I help you? Me, I would like to speak with a manager please. Store, can you hold?? Me, yes. 15 min later. Store manager, HI this is her name. Me Hi, My name is ..... I would like to tell you that yesterday when I went to come shopping at your store around 9:00 am. I brought my bike into the store. Then as I walked away from It I noticed I was being followed by an emplyee of yours. Which made me think I was being targeted. So After I wasnt being followed I went to check on my bike. It was gone. I started looking for my bike and I happened to be approched by the same employee who was following me around. He said " Are you looking for a bike??" I said "yes" He then said "why would you leave a bike in a store??" I said "so nobody would steal it" He then said to me that I needed to go to the bike store and buy a bike lock. Store manager "Did you get the employee's name??" Me "no" So I gave a dipsception and she said she would check the secrity cams. She then stated she was very sorry and she couldnt belive that an emplyee would do such a thing. She also said she would be talking to the employee about it. After that I didnt say anything else I felt she knew the situation and would handle it. That is all. Also I parked my bike next to the soup. Which yes could have been in someones way. I'll admit. I read thought and see if there is anymore ??s to anwser. Thanks

I would say that your situations has no simularity to mine what so ever. One- You would be taking care of the table much like someone would take care of a stray animal. Now if a dog came over to your yard and took a crap on you lawn would you place the dog on a busy road?? If you did what would you be thinking??? At the time?? here is your thought Maybe the one time my boss comes over to my house is today. I think not. I'm picking on you because the post you made is an easy target. For one a bike is not and oak table and it will not harm the bike to be in the rain. But it will harm your freind if it was in the rain the table. Much like if my bike was stole it would hurt me. Anyways good on you for moving the table if it would have rained. I would do the same thing. I wouldnt however take someones bike out of a store for fear of that person kicking the crap out of me for touching thier property. To me it seems like this guy has got it comin. One day he is going to pick on the wrong person. Then what will he be doing?? Propbley sucking a cock. Anyways. like said don't take me sereiosly* Im just pickin on ya if you will even see this.


Ride on.

If you placed the dog in a busy road and someone who cared about dogs saw you do that Imagie all the bad things the would say about you. Look thats the nighbor who put that poor dog in the middle of a busy. Don't go near him. Don't let you dog go over there ethier. A dog saving organization would tare*apart anyone who would place a dog in the middle of a busy road. So think about that. I hope that other emplyees learn from his mistake. If he is fired it will show the store doesn't put up with anyone treating there bussines poorly. If he does still have his job I bet every one looks at him now like he has no respect for people's propertey only in "playing games." Also if this wasnt his last strike next time will be his last and poof he will be fired. If he owed the store which I doubt. Other people would have been with him. He also would have been wearing a suit not a uniform. He was not the owner!!! No nice watch.