View Poll Results: Do you ride "improperly" on your normal commuter bike?
Yes.
7
14.00%
No.
26
52.00%
I have no idea what your talking about.
16
32.00%
That is a violation of the "bike rules" and won't admit to it.
1
2.00%
Voters: 50. You may not vote on this poll
Improper Bike "Fit"?
03-31-12 | 05:48 AM
#26
Fat Cyclist
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 673
Likes: 1
From: Florida
Bikes: '11 Cannondale SuperSix Dura-Ace
It really shouldn't be a considered a "rule." Obviously the rule can't account for everyone because we all are proportioned differently. Scorning someone because they didn't use the "rule" is absurd. If it doesn't work for them, so what? Adjust the bike however you want to find the proper way to ride. As far as mounting technique goes, I'd have to say the same. However, the general, or more acceptable way to mount/dismount a bike should (and probably does) apply almost everyone.
Arguing fit is like arguing with someone because their car seat is positioned in a certain way, which is pointless. Arguing over mounting/dismounting techniques would be disapproving how someone gets in to their car. If you own a convertible you may like to jump in, rather than opening the door.
Arguing fit is like arguing with someone because their car seat is positioned in a certain way, which is pointless. Arguing over mounting/dismounting techniques would be disapproving how someone gets in to their car. If you own a convertible you may like to jump in, rather than opening the door.
03-31-12 | 09:26 AM
#27
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,473
Likes: 4,553
From: 25 miles northwest of Boston
Bikes: Bottecchia Sprint, GT Timberline 29r, Marin Muirwoods 29er, Trek FX Alpha 7.0
bike fit is an ongoing process for me right now. when I get it right I'll know it. also I find that each bike can be fit to a single rider and yet when the rider switches bikes he has to get used to the fit of the bike. These pics show the bikes that I've fitted for "me". I imagine they have similarities and maybe the pictures won't show the difference but there are very different bikes. Oops don't know how that last one got in there.
03-31-12 | 09:59 AM
#28
Bike addict, dreamer
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,165
Likes: 1
From: Queens, New York
P.S. If one's wearing "attached" cycling shoes, getting off the saddle to wait for a light usually means having to perform a straddling start afterwards. This is a major no-no in my book. Straddling start is reserved for children learning to ride a bicycle, and for women wearing non-cycling clothing. Cyclists don't do straddling starts. For an adult, properly equipped cyclist straddling start is considered an embarrassing thing to do.
03-31-12 | 10:47 AM
#29
The Left Coast, USA
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,757
Likes: 25
Bikes: Bulls, Bianchi, Koga, Trek, Miyata
bike fit is an ongoing process for me right now. when I get it right I'll know it. also I find that each bike can be fit to a single rider and yet when the rider switches bikes he has to get used to the fit of the bike. These pics show the bikes that I've fitted for "me". I imagine they have similarities and maybe the pictures won't show the difference but there are very different bikes. Oops don't know how that last one got in there.
03-31-12 | 10:54 AM
#30
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,473
Likes: 4,553
From: 25 miles northwest of Boston
Bikes: Bottecchia Sprint, GT Timberline 29r, Marin Muirwoods 29er, Trek FX Alpha 7.0
FrenchFit I made those myself from thin steel cuz the rack was singing left and right when loaded and twisted my seatpost and saddle, it was nuts. I was like who freakin invented this stupid thing, so I added the supports and it was pretty awesome.
03-31-12 | 11:36 AM
#32
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,196
Likes: 4,099
From: Phx, AZ
Bikes: Trek Mtn Bike
I used to do the "cowboy" mounting start from the dismount. But I ain't no "cowboy" no more. I stay in the saddle, lean to the right to touch my toes, left foot somewhere in the upper downstroke position at lights nowadays. I'm with the do it however you want crowd. As long as you don't fall right in front of me it's OK.
03-31-12 | 12:41 PM
#33
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 22,676
Likes: 2,642
From: CID
Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)
03-31-12 | 12:43 PM
#34
Banned
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,787
Likes: 3
"Break the "traditional" bike fitting rules"? What are you talking about?
I always put my foot on the ground without getting off the saddle when I have to wait for the light. However, I don't see why this waiting posture should immediately imply an improperly fit bike. My bike is fit perfectly, in full accordance with "traditional" bike fitting rules (in fact, I believe my seatpost is extended a bit higher than "traditional" rules require). Yet, I have no problem reaching to the ground with my toes without getting off the saddle.
In general case this will, of course, depend on how far the BB is from the ground and how long your crank is. But for a typical road bike proper "traditional" fit should not preclude anyone from being able to put their toes on the ground without getting off the saddle. My bike is actually a cyclocross[-ish] one, which usually means a greater BB-to-ground distance, but I have no problems with this anyway.
On my bike, when I support it with my toes, I don't even have to lean it much. Putting my entire foot on the ground would require a notably greater amount of lean, of course.
I can imagine that a person with some medical condition that restricts his/her ability to support their weight with their toes or pivot their foot downwards might have problems using this waiting technique. And, as a consequence, such person might opt for lower seatpost position, resulting in an improperly fit bike. But other than that I don't see where the idea of "improper fit" could come from.
P.S. If one's wearing "attached" cycling shoes, getting off the saddle to wait for a light usually means having to perform a straddling start afterwards. This is a major no-no in my book. Straddling start is reserved for children learning to ride a bicycle, and for women wearing non-cycling clothing. Cyclists don't do straddling starts. For an adult, properly equipped cyclist straddling start is considered an embarrassing thing to do.
I always put my foot on the ground without getting off the saddle when I have to wait for the light. However, I don't see why this waiting posture should immediately imply an improperly fit bike. My bike is fit perfectly, in full accordance with "traditional" bike fitting rules (in fact, I believe my seatpost is extended a bit higher than "traditional" rules require). Yet, I have no problem reaching to the ground with my toes without getting off the saddle.
In general case this will, of course, depend on how far the BB is from the ground and how long your crank is. But for a typical road bike proper "traditional" fit should not preclude anyone from being able to put their toes on the ground without getting off the saddle. My bike is actually a cyclocross[-ish] one, which usually means a greater BB-to-ground distance, but I have no problems with this anyway.
On my bike, when I support it with my toes, I don't even have to lean it much. Putting my entire foot on the ground would require a notably greater amount of lean, of course.
I can imagine that a person with some medical condition that restricts his/her ability to support their weight with their toes or pivot their foot downwards might have problems using this waiting technique. And, as a consequence, such person might opt for lower seatpost position, resulting in an improperly fit bike. But other than that I don't see where the idea of "improper fit" could come from.
P.S. If one's wearing "attached" cycling shoes, getting off the saddle to wait for a light usually means having to perform a straddling start afterwards. This is a major no-no in my book. Straddling start is reserved for children learning to ride a bicycle, and for women wearing non-cycling clothing. Cyclists don't do straddling starts. For an adult, properly equipped cyclist straddling start is considered an embarrassing thing to do.
UNLESS YOU HAVE SOMETHING LIKE ELECTRA'S PEDAL-FORWARD DESIGN, MADE FOR PUTTING THE FEET DOWN, in other words, if you have a traditional double-diamond bike frame, and you can put as much as TOES OF BOTH FEET DOWN while in the saddle, you are risking long-term knee injury.
All the 'professional bike-fit formulas' come within millimeters of each other, IME; what works for me is the less-scientific 'heel-on-pedal' method. It offers the most comfort FOR ME. But, in ALL of these, the rider is only able to touch with the toes of ONE foot. So, AndreyT, I call BS on you. (Or do you have exceptionally long, prehensile toes?)
As far as your 'straddle-start' twaddle, I'm sure the entire TDF peloton would LOVE to hear that. Your later description of the 'proper' way to start is simply the 'neighborhood' way -- acceptable, but NOT the ONLY, or PROPER, way. Get over yourself.
"Cyclists don't do straddling starts".....SMH while LOL.
Tool.
03-31-12 | 01:10 PM
#35
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,230
Likes: 1
From: Miami, FL
Bikes: 2007 Giant Cypress DX, Windsor Tourist 2011
I think only pro racers and dentists can afford to really pay for a professional to come out and have you ride the trainer while they slowly optimize your fit for comfort, all the while recording your position on video to be analyzed later in conjunction with power meter readings.
03-31-12 | 01:20 PM
#36
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 22,676
Likes: 2,642
From: CID
Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)
I think what AndreyT means by putting "toes" down is that the toes of one foot are on the ground while stopped. Everybody should agree that being able to put both feet down while in the saddle means it's too low*.
- Scott
* Excepting "pedal-forward" bikes, of course.
- Scott
* Excepting "pedal-forward" bikes, of course.
04-01-12 | 03:01 PM
#37
Two H's!!! TWO!!!!!
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,270
Likes: 12
From: Toronto, ON
Staying in the saddle when stopped is terribly inefficient, since you're not putting your body's whole weight on the pedal when starting, which makes your starts anemic and wobbly. Nothing screams amateur more than these silly characters whose bums stay glued to their saddles, and who then sway all over as they slowly pedal away from a stop (the dumbest ones don't bother to shift down either).
If you wanna be oh so cool, learn to trackstand, you noob!
P.S. I hope y'all realize this post has a healthy dose of sarcasm with the intent to ridicule.
If you wanna be oh so cool, learn to trackstand, you noob!
P.S. I hope y'all realize this post has a healthy dose of sarcasm with the intent to ridicule.
04-01-12 | 05:05 PM
#38
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,278
Likes: 342
From: Alpharetta, GA
Bikes: Nashbar Road
I must ride improperly fitted then since I can just touch both toes. Because of this thread I even checked with the lemond method and it checked out. 
I'm doomed to ill fit then.
I'm doomed to ill fit then.
04-01-12 | 06:08 PM
#39
Kid A
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,778
Likes: 5
From: Alexandria, VA
"I have no idea what you're talking about."
Also, I don't know what you're talking about.
04-01-12 | 06:22 PM
#40
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Jim
04-01-12 | 06:39 PM
#41
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,251
Likes: 0
"Break the "traditional" bike fitting rules"? What are you talking about?
I always put my foot on the ground without getting off the saddle when I have to wait for the light. However, I don't see why this waiting posture should immediately imply an improperly fit bike. My bike is fit perfectly, in full accordance with "traditional" bike fitting rules (in fact, I believe my seatpost is extended a bit higher than "traditional" rules require). Yet, I have no problem reaching to the ground with my toes without getting off the saddle.
In general case this will, of course, depend on how far the BB is from the ground and how long your crank is. But for a typical road bike proper "traditional" fit should not preclude anyone from being able to put their toes on the ground without getting off the saddle. My bike is actually a cyclocross[-ish] one, which usually means a greater BB-to-ground distance, but I have no problems with this anyway.
On my bike, when I support it with my toes, I don't even have to lean it much. Putting my entire foot on the ground would require a notably greater amount of lean, of course.
I can imagine that a person with some medical condition that restricts his/her ability to support their weight with their toes or pivot their foot downwards might have problems using this waiting technique. And, as a consequence, such person might opt for lower seatpost position, resulting in an improperly fit bike. But other than that I don't see where the idea of "improper fit" could come from.
P.S. If one's wearing "attached" cycling shoes, getting off the saddle to wait for a light usually means having to perform a straddling start afterwards. This is a major no-no in my book. Straddling start is reserved for children learning to ride a bicycle, and for women wearing non-cycling clothing. Cyclists don't do straddling starts. For an adult, properly equipped cyclist straddling start is considered an embarrassing thing to do.
I always put my foot on the ground without getting off the saddle when I have to wait for the light. However, I don't see why this waiting posture should immediately imply an improperly fit bike. My bike is fit perfectly, in full accordance with "traditional" bike fitting rules (in fact, I believe my seatpost is extended a bit higher than "traditional" rules require). Yet, I have no problem reaching to the ground with my toes without getting off the saddle.
In general case this will, of course, depend on how far the BB is from the ground and how long your crank is. But for a typical road bike proper "traditional" fit should not preclude anyone from being able to put their toes on the ground without getting off the saddle. My bike is actually a cyclocross[-ish] one, which usually means a greater BB-to-ground distance, but I have no problems with this anyway.
On my bike, when I support it with my toes, I don't even have to lean it much. Putting my entire foot on the ground would require a notably greater amount of lean, of course.
I can imagine that a person with some medical condition that restricts his/her ability to support their weight with their toes or pivot their foot downwards might have problems using this waiting technique. And, as a consequence, such person might opt for lower seatpost position, resulting in an improperly fit bike. But other than that I don't see where the idea of "improper fit" could come from.
P.S. If one's wearing "attached" cycling shoes, getting off the saddle to wait for a light usually means having to perform a straddling start afterwards. This is a major no-no in my book. Straddling start is reserved for children learning to ride a bicycle, and for women wearing non-cycling clothing. Cyclists don't do straddling starts. For an adult, properly equipped cyclist straddling start is considered an embarrassing thing to do.
04-01-12 | 06:42 PM
#42
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,251
Likes: 0
I think only pro racers and dentists can afford to really pay for a professional to come out and have you ride the trainer while they slowly optimize your fit for comfort, all the while recording your position on video to be analyzed later in conjunction with power meter readings.
04-01-12 | 06:58 PM
#43
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 448
Likes: 1
From: Ottawa Canada
Bikes: kona dew hybrid, MEC shadowlands
Has anyone every told you it's impolite to correct one's grammar and spelling on the internet?
04-02-12 | 04:54 AM
#45
Bike addict, dreamer
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,165
Likes: 1
From: Queens, New York
Clearly clueless:
"Yet, I have no problem reaching to the ground with my toes without getting off the saddle."
04-02-12 | 07:53 AM
#46
Intrepid Bicycle Commuter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 819
Likes: 95
From: Upstate New York
Bikes: 1976 Motobecane Grand Jubile, Austro Daimler 'Ultima', 2012 Salsa Vaya, 2009 Trek 4300, Fyxation Eastside, State Matte Black 6, '97 Trek 930 SHX, '93 Specialized Rockhopper, 1990 Trek 950
I can stop at a light, and get both toe tips touching the ground, with my butt in the saddle. I never do it though. I've had my calves cramp up too many times, straining to balance on the tips of my toes.
For what it's worth, straddle starts rule.
For what it's worth, straddle starts rule.
04-02-12 | 09:29 AM
#48
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 15,103
Likes: 4,737
From: Beaverton, OR
Bikes: Yes
I think only pro racers and dentists can afford to really pay for a professional to come out and have you ride the trainer while they slowly optimize your fit for comfort, all the while recording your position on video to be analyzed later in conjunction with power meter readings.
The thing that surprised me most was that the fitter lowered my saddle quite a bit. I can't put both feet down, but a can comfortably put a toe down and stabilize myself while I'm on the saddle. Is that breaking the rule?
__________________
My Bikes
My Bikes
04-02-12 | 10:02 AM
#49
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 6,977
Likes: 191
From: Washington, DC
Proper technique is to give your body a break by getting off the saddle completely when stopped (i.e., straddling). If you can balance with your foot on the ground while remaining seated, you're doing it wrong. Most kids transitioning from training wheels to two wheels feel safer with the saddle set up too low, so that they can put both feet on the ground when coming to a stop. Too low saddle, in the long run, will cause knee pain. Leg muscles will not be fully engaged in cycling with an improper fit. You're not riding a Harley.
04-02-12 | 10:50 AM
#50
Banned
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 43,586
Likes: 1,380
From: NW,Oregon Coast
Bikes: 8
Jim might look at some crank forward cruiser bikes, if he wants to stop, flat footed.
half way to a recumbent.
Low BB is another design, but increases the chance of Pedal strike in corners.
half way to a recumbent.
Low BB is another design, but increases the chance of Pedal strike in corners.