"Just Ride" by Grant Petersen
05-24-12, 07:48 AM
#77
Senior Member
Here's more GP on clothing from his website; I don't think that the one sentence NPR response conveys enough. (https://www.rivbike.com/Articles.asp?ID=253).
05-24-12, 07:58 AM
#78
Senior Member
Lots of misconceptions about his views here, based on one interview. I have not heard the interview but in the book his main point was bicycling isn't special, just get on and go. If you want to turn it into a daily sport, go for it, but it doesn't have to be that way for the majority of people. my $.02
05-24-12, 09:43 AM
#79
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 542
Bikes: 2012 Jamis Coda Comp; early 80s Univega Nuovo Sport
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Tight and stretchy *is* the way to go if you want to set a personal record on a certain loop you ride, and there's a lot of flat and downhill riding in it. Also, when you're riding as a group, dressing like other riders, in tight & stretchy clothes, can encourage camaraderie and make you feel part of a group. On the other hand, no group worth feeling a part of will ostracize you for looking a little different.
...In America, cyclers who are otherwise normal wear spandex shorts and skin tight jerseys with psychedelic geckos, skulls & crossbones, wilderness murals, flags and serious-looking bald eagles, and advertisements for the local coffee shop or podiatrist. The message it sends potential riders is that without special clothing, they'll have a substandard experience on the bike, but of course that's not true.
05-24-12, 10:15 AM
#80
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 11,375
Bikes: '08 Surly Cross-Check, 2011 Redline Conquest Pro, 2012 Spesh FSR Comp EVO, 2015 Trek Domane 6.2 disc
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
6 Posts
Skinsuit. Every trip. Any distance.
16 miles to work on the bike trail? Skinsuit.
1.5 miles to the grocery for milk and eggs? Skinsuit. And TT helmet with faceshield, and shoe covers.
16 miles to work on the bike trail? Skinsuit.
1.5 miles to the grocery for milk and eggs? Skinsuit. And TT helmet with faceshield, and shoe covers.
__________________
"I feel like my world was classier before I found cyclocross."
- Mandi M.
"I feel like my world was classier before I found cyclocross."
- Mandi M.
05-24-12, 10:28 AM
#81
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Southwestern Ontario
Posts: 5,126
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1581 Post(s)
Liked 1,189 Times
in
605 Posts
Seems pretty straightforward to me.
GP (a.k.a. Rivendell) has an entire line of clothing, accessories, etc. -- all of it most certainly not bargain priced or low in profit margin -- to go with his line of bicycles; all of it intended, of course, to project a very clear image, an image in turn reinforced by the appearance and content of his website. 'Unracer', 'gentleman/woman cyclist', whatever ('retrodork' comes to mind) ... an image it is.
GP's writings, interviews, views etc. are nothing more than an attempt to establish, promote and maintain a 'brand'; his views on clothes, bike fitting, tire width, threadless headsets, clipless pedals etc. etc. are simply the 'retro' equivalent of "laterally stiff/vertically compliant" and other nonsensical marketing terms, and of the language and imagery of speed, athletic appearance, "training" etc. that pervades the mainstream North American cycling market.
BTW, I'm old, slow and most definitely (by both genetic inheritance and temperament) an 'unracer'. While I have no desire to look like I was attacked by a box of crayons when cycling, equally I have no desire to look (on the bike or off it) like a faux-Edwardian gentleman on an outing in the countryside.
GP (a.k.a. Rivendell) has an entire line of clothing, accessories, etc. -- all of it most certainly not bargain priced or low in profit margin -- to go with his line of bicycles; all of it intended, of course, to project a very clear image, an image in turn reinforced by the appearance and content of his website. 'Unracer', 'gentleman/woman cyclist', whatever ('retrodork' comes to mind) ... an image it is.
GP's writings, interviews, views etc. are nothing more than an attempt to establish, promote and maintain a 'brand'; his views on clothes, bike fitting, tire width, threadless headsets, clipless pedals etc. etc. are simply the 'retro' equivalent of "laterally stiff/vertically compliant" and other nonsensical marketing terms, and of the language and imagery of speed, athletic appearance, "training" etc. that pervades the mainstream North American cycling market.
BTW, I'm old, slow and most definitely (by both genetic inheritance and temperament) an 'unracer'. While I have no desire to look like I was attacked by a box of crayons when cycling, equally I have no desire to look (on the bike or off it) like a faux-Edwardian gentleman on an outing in the countryside.
05-24-12, 10:33 AM
#82
Senior Member
You, sir, are an elitist, and are making others feel really bad for wearing whatever they are wearing.
05-24-12, 10:35 AM
#83
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 8,101
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 17 Times
in
13 Posts
Tight and stretchy *is* the way to go if you want to set a personal record on a certain loop you ride, and there's a lot of flat and downhill riding in it. Also, when you're riding as a group, dressing like other riders, in tight & stretchy clothes, can encourage camaraderie and make you feel part of a group. On the other hand, no group worth feeling a part of will ostracize you for looking a little different.
...
In America, cyclers who are otherwise normal wear spandex shorts and skin tight jerseys with psychedelic geckos, skulls & crossbones, wilderness murals, flags and serious-looking bald eagles, and advertisements for the local coffee shop or podiatrist. The message it sends potential riders is that without special clothing, they'll have a substandard experience on the bike, but of course that's not true.
...
In America, cyclers who are otherwise normal wear spandex shorts and skin tight jerseys with psychedelic geckos, skulls & crossbones, wilderness murals, flags and serious-looking bald eagles, and advertisements for the local coffee shop or podiatrist. The message it sends potential riders is that without special clothing, they'll have a substandard experience on the bike, but of course that's not true.
If you're not riding with a psychedelic gecko on your shirt, you ARE having a substandard experience.
05-24-12, 10:49 AM
#84
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Burnaby, BC
Posts: 4,144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
Seems pretty straightforward to me.
GP (a.k.a. Rivendell) has an entire line of clothing, accessories, etc. -- all of it most certainly not bargain priced or low in profit margin -- to go with his line of bicycles; all of it intended, of course, to project a very clear image, an image in turn reinforced by the appearance and content of his website. 'Unracer', 'gentleman/woman cyclist', whatever ('retrodork' comes to mind) ... an image it is.
GP's writings, interviews, views etc. are nothing more than an attempt to establish, promote and maintain a 'brand'; his views on clothes, bike fitting, tire width, threadless headsets, clipless pedals etc. etc. are simply the 'retro' equivalent of "laterally stiff/vertically compliant" and other nonsensical marketing terms, and of the language and imagery of speed, athletic appearance, "training" etc. that pervades the mainstream North American cycling market.
BTW, I'm old, slow and most definitely (by both genetic inheritance and temperament) an 'unracer'. While I have no desire to look like I was attacked by a box of crayons when cycling, equally I have no desire to look (on the bike or off it) like a faux-Edwardian gentleman on an outing in the countryside.
GP (a.k.a. Rivendell) has an entire line of clothing, accessories, etc. -- all of it most certainly not bargain priced or low in profit margin -- to go with his line of bicycles; all of it intended, of course, to project a very clear image, an image in turn reinforced by the appearance and content of his website. 'Unracer', 'gentleman/woman cyclist', whatever ('retrodork' comes to mind) ... an image it is.
GP's writings, interviews, views etc. are nothing more than an attempt to establish, promote and maintain a 'brand'; his views on clothes, bike fitting, tire width, threadless headsets, clipless pedals etc. etc. are simply the 'retro' equivalent of "laterally stiff/vertically compliant" and other nonsensical marketing terms, and of the language and imagery of speed, athletic appearance, "training" etc. that pervades the mainstream North American cycling market.
BTW, I'm old, slow and most definitely (by both genetic inheritance and temperament) an 'unracer'. While I have no desire to look like I was attacked by a box of crayons when cycling, equally I have no desire to look (on the bike or off it) like a faux-Edwardian gentleman on an outing in the countryside.
Even a casual survey of his pricing should make his profit margins clear, and they certainly aren't very high. I don't think he's trying to push any kind of image at all. Rather, that's the opposite of what he's doing - his point is that you can ride a bike in anything, if the bike isn't trying to win le Tour.
Your entire second paragraph is a mind-bogglingly cynical view of a guy who makes old-fashioned steel bikes...and Edwardian? You really need to have a look at your own tendencies towards value-judgment if you this is your reaction when you see a guy in a wool sweater, shorts and sandals.
It's very strange how people think they can so casually and thoroughly insult some guy they've never met because they don't like his bikes.
05-24-12, 10:49 AM
#85
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Gaseous Cloud around Uranus
Posts: 3,741
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times
in
7 Posts
Grant Petersen......The Emily Post of the bicycle world......I'd buy his book but my parrot doesn't like paper on the bottom of his cage......
If I see people with wool sweaters and shorts,at the same time,right or wrong,it does make me wonder......I wear both but it's either cold......or it ain't.
If I see people with wool sweaters and shorts,at the same time,right or wrong,it does make me wonder......I wear both but it's either cold......or it ain't.
Last edited by Booger1; 05-24-12 at 11:12 AM.
05-24-12, 11:19 AM
#86
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 8,101
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 17 Times
in
13 Posts
I don't think any of this is true, or really even a supportable opinion.
Even a casual survey of his pricing should make his profit margins clear, and they certainly aren't very high. I don't think he's trying to push any kind of image at all. Rather, that's the opposite of what he's doing - his point is that you can ride a bike in anything, if the bike isn't trying to win le Tour.
Your entire second paragraph is a mind-bogglingly cynical view of a guy who makes old-fashioned steel bikes...and Edwardian? You really need to have a look at your own tendencies towards value-judgment if you this is your reaction when you see a guy in a wool sweater, shorts and sandals.
It's very strange how people think they can so casually and thoroughly insult some guy they've never met because they don't like his bikes.
Even a casual survey of his pricing should make his profit margins clear, and they certainly aren't very high. I don't think he's trying to push any kind of image at all. Rather, that's the opposite of what he's doing - his point is that you can ride a bike in anything, if the bike isn't trying to win le Tour.
Your entire second paragraph is a mind-bogglingly cynical view of a guy who makes old-fashioned steel bikes...and Edwardian? You really need to have a look at your own tendencies towards value-judgment if you this is your reaction when you see a guy in a wool sweater, shorts and sandals.
It's very strange how people think they can so casually and thoroughly insult some guy they've never met because they don't like his bikes.
I'm sorry, knickers are just as out of place when you're more than a few feet from a bike or a pirate ship as a cycling jersey is.
Knickers are very practical bike wear and in combination with the sweaters has a sort of a nostalgic look. To me it's still trying to sell an image or lifestyle, just like the "race oriented" crowd is. It's just a different lifestyle.
Last edited by tjspiel; 05-24-12 at 11:27 AM.
05-24-12, 11:19 AM
#87
born again cyclist
Originally Posted by NPR
With that in mind, David asks Petersen, "Is that still a debate raging in the biking world, whether it's worth it to get this aerodynamic stuff?"
"There shouldn't be any debate at all," Petersen says. "Riding a bicycle should be just a natural part of your life. It's so easy. We are the only ones — 'we,' speaking as an American — we are generally the only ones who commute to work in racing clothing. Where is there room for debate about how ridiculous that is?":
"There shouldn't be any debate at all," Petersen says. "Riding a bicycle should be just a natural part of your life. It's so easy. We are the only ones — 'we,' speaking as an American — we are generally the only ones who commute to work in racing clothing. Where is there room for debate about how ridiculous that is?":
just what exactly is ridiculous about being concerned with speed and performance on a bike commute? i've got 15 miles to go to get to work every morning and i DO NOT have the spare time to lollygag my way into work at 7mph to avoid sweating like hog. when i ride into work i hit it, and hit it hard, to keep my commute time hopefully under 1 hour. keeping an overall average of 17+mph means that i'm gonna sweat like a hog. why would i ever want to wear my work clothes when i commute and get them completely soaked with sweat?
if others have the free time or short commute distance where they can slow down enough to keep themselves from becoming a sweaty mess, that's AWESOME for them, but i do not possess those luxuries. i could not bike 30 miles per day if i were forced to wear my work clothes. i would either run out of time or be fired for the obnoxious odors emanating from my sweat-soaked work clothes.
so excuse me grant petersen, but hell yes, there actually is room for debate on this issue. one size fits all answers do not apply to bike commuting because we all have our own individual personal situations that require individual personal solutions. for me and my long and fast commuting runs, cycle-specific clothing is the perfect solution.
Last edited by Steely Dan; 05-24-12 at 11:25 AM.
05-24-12, 11:45 AM
#88
Senior Member
The guy is welcome to come here anytime and express his views. No one cares about his bikes, but rather, are commenting on his rather strange and mildly insulting opinions and apparent lack of a thorough understanding of bike commuting. All in a rather lame and obvious attempt to sell his wares.
05-24-12, 11:53 AM
#89
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Burnaby, BC
Posts: 4,144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
i don't dislike the guy because of his bikes, i dislike him because of ass-hatted d-bag comments like this:
just what exactly is ridiculous about being concerned with speed and performance on a bike commute? i've got 15 miles to go to get to work every morning and i DO NOT have the spare time to lollygag my way into work at 7mph to avoid sweating like hog. when i ride into work i hit it, and hit it hard, to keep my commute time hopefully under 1 hour. keeping an overall average of 17+mph means that i'm gonna sweat like a hog. why would i ever want to wear my work clothes when i commute and get them completely soaked with sweat?
if others have the free time or short commute distance where they can slow down enough to keep themselves from becoming a sweaty mess, that's AWESOME for them, but i do not possess those luxuries. i could not bike 30 miles per day if i were forced to wear my work clothes. i would either run out of time or be fired for the obnoxious odors emanating from my sweat-soaked work clothes.
so excuse me grant petersen, but hell yes, there actually is room for debate on this issue. one size fits all answers do not apply to bike commuting because we all have our own individual personal situations that require individual personal solutions. for me and my long and fast commuting runs, cycle-specific clothing is the perfect solution.
just what exactly is ridiculous about being concerned with speed and performance on a bike commute? i've got 15 miles to go to get to work every morning and i DO NOT have the spare time to lollygag my way into work at 7mph to avoid sweating like hog. when i ride into work i hit it, and hit it hard, to keep my commute time hopefully under 1 hour. keeping an overall average of 17+mph means that i'm gonna sweat like a hog. why would i ever want to wear my work clothes when i commute and get them completely soaked with sweat?
if others have the free time or short commute distance where they can slow down enough to keep themselves from becoming a sweaty mess, that's AWESOME for them, but i do not possess those luxuries. i could not bike 30 miles per day if i were forced to wear my work clothes. i would either run out of time or be fired for the obnoxious odors emanating from my sweat-soaked work clothes.
so excuse me grant petersen, but hell yes, there actually is room for debate on this issue. one size fits all answers do not apply to bike commuting because we all have our own individual personal situations that require individual personal solutions. for me and my long and fast commuting runs, cycle-specific clothing is the perfect solution.
I'm quite sure that everyone, GP included, would happily conclude that for you spandex is perfectly suited.
05-24-12, 11:53 AM
#90
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Burnaby, BC
Posts: 4,144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
The guy is welcome to come here anytime and express his views. No one cares about his bikes, but rather, are commenting on his rather strange and mildly insulting opinions and apparent lack of a thorough understanding of bike commuting. All in a rather lame and obvious attempt to sell his wares.
05-24-12, 11:55 AM
#91
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Burnaby, BC
Posts: 4,144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
To be fair, Grant will go on about how detrimental it is for people to be wearing spandex outside of a race or group ride setting, then at the same time will try to sell you wool sweaters and knickers.
I'm sorry, knickers are just as out of place when you're more than a few feet from a bike or a pirate ship as a cycling jersey is.
Knickers are very practical bike wear and in combination with the sweaters has a sort of a nostalgic look. To me it's still trying to sell an image or lifestyle, just like the "race oriented" crowd is. It's just a different lifestyle.
I'm sorry, knickers are just as out of place when you're more than a few feet from a bike or a pirate ship as a cycling jersey is.
Knickers are very practical bike wear and in combination with the sweaters has a sort of a nostalgic look. To me it's still trying to sell an image or lifestyle, just like the "race oriented" crowd is. It's just a different lifestyle.
05-24-12, 12:01 PM
#92
born again cyclist
he's either an ass or terribly inarticulate or both.
05-24-12, 12:04 PM
#93
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Eugene, Oregon
Posts: 1,345
Bikes: 2014 Specialized Dolce Triple, 1987 Schwinn Tempo, 2012 Windsor Kensington 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Dude, I love his bikes (If I can ever afford one, I'd love to get an Atlantis) and his clothing (though I'm a knitter, so I make my own woolen apparel) but I can recognize that he's kind of mulish about some things.
05-24-12, 12:08 PM
#94
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 8,101
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 17 Times
in
13 Posts
He's saying you don't need to buy clipless pedals and spandex clothes because cycling can be a tranqual and relaxing activity as well as an athletic one. And it just so happens that he sells some stuff that will work well for that softer side of cycling.
As an example. Look at this saddle bag from his site:
That baby is $300.
05-24-12, 12:16 PM
#95
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 8,101
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 17 Times
in
13 Posts
From a fashion standpoint, a 60 year old guy might have an easier time pulling off cycling shorts than knickers unless he was on a golf course.
In my mind, knickers are cycling gear, just like bike shorts are. Just hipper.
Last edited by tjspiel; 05-24-12 at 12:21 PM.
05-24-12, 12:18 PM
#96
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Burnaby, BC
Posts: 4,144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
And yes, I too think it's ridiculous to dress up in full kit to ride to work. Unless, of course, you're going 15 miles and 17+ mph...that would be an exception. Here: https://dictionary.reference.com/browse/exception
05-24-12, 12:23 PM
#98
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Burnaby, BC
Posts: 4,144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
I think knickers look great and work well on a bike, but I'd feel out of place wearing them in most contexts that didn't involve cycling. Even then, I think the level of acceptance they have directly correlates to your age, and how close you are to an urban area.
From a fashion standpoint, a 60 year old guy might have an easier time pulling off cycling shorts than knickers unless he was on a golf course.
In my mind, knickers are cycling gear, just like bike shorts are. Just hipper.
From a fashion standpoint, a 60 year old guy might have an easier time pulling off cycling shorts than knickers unless he was on a golf course.
In my mind, knickers are cycling gear, just like bike shorts are. Just hipper.
Also, I had no idea I was actually a cross-dresser!
05-24-12, 12:39 PM
#99
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Southwestern Ontario
Posts: 5,126
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1581 Post(s)
Liked 1,189 Times
in
605 Posts
I don't think any of this is true, or really even a supportable opinion.
Even a casual survey of his pricing should make his profit margins clear, and they certainly aren't very high. I don't think he's trying to push any kind of image at all. Rather, that's the opposite of what he's doing - his point is that you can ride a bike in anything, if the bike isn't trying to win le Tour.
Your entire second paragraph is a mind-bogglingly cynical view of a guy who makes old-fashioned steel bikes...and Edwardian? You really need to have a look at your own tendencies towards value-judgment if you this is your reaction when you see a guy in a wool sweater, shorts and sandals.
It's very strange how people think they can so casually and thoroughly insult some guy they've never met because they don't like his bikes.
Even a casual survey of his pricing should make his profit margins clear, and they certainly aren't very high. I don't think he's trying to push any kind of image at all. Rather, that's the opposite of what he's doing - his point is that you can ride a bike in anything, if the bike isn't trying to win le Tour.
Your entire second paragraph is a mind-bogglingly cynical view of a guy who makes old-fashioned steel bikes...and Edwardian? You really need to have a look at your own tendencies towards value-judgment if you this is your reaction when you see a guy in a wool sweater, shorts and sandals.
It's very strange how people think they can so casually and thoroughly insult some guy they've never met because they don't like his bikes.
You've really rather missed my point, and at the same time managed to express totally unsupported and unsupportable opinions about my views and intentions. Nicely done.
Last edited by badger1; 05-24-12 at 12:46 PM.
05-24-12, 12:42 PM
#100
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Burnaby, BC
Posts: 4,144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
I think the views that GP expresses are his honest take on things and not just a marketing ploy. But I also think there is some marketing going on, intentional or not.
He's saying you don't need to buy clipless pedals and spandex clothes because cycling can be a tranqual and relaxing activity as well as an athletic one. And it just so happens that he sells some stuff that will work well for that softer side of cycling.
As an example. Look at this saddle bag from his site:
That baby is $300.
He's saying you don't need to buy clipless pedals and spandex clothes because cycling can be a tranqual and relaxing activity as well as an athletic one. And it just so happens that he sells some stuff that will work well for that softer side of cycling.
As an example. Look at this saddle bag from his site:
That baby is $300.
I dunno, I don't find these things to be in opposition. He's not saying you have to spend $300 on a saddlebag.