Any difference between a good front or rear pannier for commuting?

Not a lot, normally you would use a smaller one on the front than the rear.

I find I can use 1 bag on the rear, but on the front, a balanced pair
the bike steers reliably, and stable ,
1 on front and it always pulls to that side..


I have 2 Ortlieb Sport Packer bags paired together,
with strips of webbing between them,
so they come off and stay together..

over the wheel pannier rack is also a low rider,
because Im using My 20" wheel bike Friday.
and the wheel is smaller.

I have a set of the smaller size Maddens, now a vintage set of bags. I think they'd work well, but I will need to see if they can pack my work laptop, whatever that might be - haven't started my new job yet!

The bike has 65 mm offset and about 35 mm trail.

How is the handling of a low trail bike affected by low panniers? Is pannier placement a significant factor? Would a few cm difference in front to back positioning be significant?

I'm thinking of getting a front Nitto Campee for this bike, since it needs a top (over-front-wheel) rack as well. The fork has through-bolt holes for low-rider mounting and highly-curved but relatively stout Dediaiccia fork blades. It should handle a decent load. I figure 20# is what I'll need to carry.

You can use front panniers on the rear but you wouldn't want to use a full size rear pannier in front.
+1 on balanced front panniers. The low-slung ones with a front specific rack are the best for minimizing interference with stability & control.
With some front panniers, you may need to be wary in a strong or gusty crosswind - the amount of steering force that the wind can apply can be significant.

I spent years cheaping out on Panniers...with the result of always having to buy more panniers to cheap out on.

Get it over with - buy the Ortliebs and you don't have to worry about it again. I use the Bike Packer Plus on the rear and Sports Packer Plus on the front...no muss, no fuss and perfectly snug to the bike. The rear panniers also have better foot clearance and I have size 12...so it's relevant.

Hmm, they act as side-sails! So we want the center of pressure to not apply leverage around the steer axis.

I have the Maddens, I'm not worried about cheaping out.

Certainly that's valid, but having a bike frame that is intended for rear panniers (i.e. chainstays longer than just the minimum required to provide clearance between the tire and the seat tube) is also helpful.

This is part of why I went with a long-rake fork on this Trek. It has a 43 cm chainstay, and I've never been able to get away from pannier heel strike on it, without contorting my pedal stroke. I'd feel better about it if it was a 45 cm rear end.

In terms of size, weight, and balance, the front panniers will affect your steering so you really don't want anything too big or too heavy up front.

Personally I find commuting with front panniers on a front rack more stable than commuting with rear panniers. That includes climbing a few minor hills and decents at about 55kph. And there's a rear rack on the bike so its a deliberate choice. People claiming issues with stability or steering either are using a frame configuration completely unsuitable for luggage or have mechanical issues with the bike. Poorly adjusted bearing cones or improperly tensioned spokes will also make a bike feel squirrelly when loaded.

Or they have one of many "touring" bikes that aren't that well designed for carrying weight. The positioning of the front rack and bags CAN make a difference and I've done much better with low riders.

Low-trail is exactly what you want for carrying loads on the front.

I've done many tours on bikes equipped with front panniers and never noticed any real problem with cross winds.

Rears tend to be bigger and some will have a cutout for heel strike.

I like having more rake than normal instead of less.I can move the panniers forward if I need faster steering.

It wasn't my idea, I'm just here to learn. The gent who wrote post number 5 in this thread shared that is was a problem. I'd like to understand better.

It sounds like the effect of adding a low load (pans) is similar to the effect of adding a high load (rando bag). I think I'll go for the panniers.

Thanks, tsl!

I know it wasn't your post but it's still not something to be concerned about.

I edited my post #5 to be less categorical.

Ok, so sidewind has not been a huge problem, and there is leeway to adjust the panniers to optimize it. Thanks, gents, I'm getting quite an education!

Next up: what's the best low-rider rack system? I could go with a LR rack that is integral with an above-wheel rack, or separate from it. As far as integral, I know of the Nice Rack, and the Campee. I know which name I like better ...

Do all front racks accept any front bag?

I love my Tubus front low riders and it works perfectly with the Ortliebs.

Wow, very nice! Logos on the back?

Nope. That's a Cosmo. I have one on my primary commuter too.

Be careful with Nitto racks, a lot of them don't allow for actually mounting the bags in the 'lowrider' position. I don't remember if the Campee is one of them or not (The one Rivendell carries is the primary culprit. They say it doesn't affect handling, I disagree.)

And most racks will work with most bags, but not all. My Ortleibs (QL-2) just barely work with my Blackburn front rack. They wouldn't work at all with the new version at all though. I have a pair of Detour Panniers that also are incompatible, and a few different cheap ones that work fine.