mconlonx 

Roll your own: find a frame at bikeisland (kilo), get a 5sp wheelset (BI, or Soma Iggy), swap what parts you can from other bikes you have, a well stocked parts bin, or helpful people on BF... Pake C'mute frame would work, is cheap, but does not have butted tubing.

Consider the Torker Graduate as a starting point--could do a drop bar conversion if you want, commuter amenities, but again not the better tubing you want.

Or a used drop bar bike with a decent frame, swap out the wheels/drivetrain.

noglider 

chucky, I was trying to offer help, not argue over who is more of an expert. You don't want it, and that's fine.

mconlonx 

He can be grumpy like that...

chucky

Whoohoo Tracy from www.bikesdirect.com called me back today and said that they did indeed have 1 49cm Mercier Kilo WT5 left...
and they sold it to me at a discounted price of $450 (marked down from $479.99) so hopefully there's nothing wrong with it (they said there wasn't and that it just got lost in the warehouse, but you never know)

Yeah sorry about that...
It was extremely kind and magnanimous for noglide (and other contributers here at BF) to offer his time to help. I sincerely appreciate it and hope noglide accepts this apology.

noglider 

I appreciate your apology. Too many people aren't man (or woman) enough to do that.

chucky

Guess it's a moot point now since I got the bike I wanted, but because I like to hear the sound of my own typing: yeah I thought about these options and the main problem is that a complete build is a pain in the ass with installing the headset cups, selecting a bottom bracket that yields a straight chainline, etc, etc. Also:
-Only the "TT" version of the Kilo frame is available at bikeisland and its geometry is even tighter than the WT (which is already pushing it)...although it does also have the fender/rack brazeons which are absolutely necessary.
-Torker Graduate is actually pretty close to what I want with the front hub brake (and I already have one built into a 20" wheel and will now eventually rebuild to 700c for my new Kilo)...but the frame is a horrible "trimoly" mix of hi-tensile tubes welded to chromoly tubes, yuck!
-I'm also pretty particular about my dropouts because I've found that chain tugs enable me to run my chains until they literally snap (making them one of the longest wearing parts on my bikes), so most road frames would not be suitable and even the forward facing horizontal drops of the Windsor Oxford were turning me off a little (but, hey, for a $200-$300 bike you have to make sacrifices).

Plus separately purchased IGH wheelsets cost almost as much as an entire bike!:
$190 for the Bikeisland Nexus 3-speed (front+rear) vs $200-$300 for an entire Windsor Oxford
$280+shipping for the Soma Iggy (rear only) vs $450 for an entire Kilo WT5
...so yeah I'm not willing to spend that kind of money to roll my own, especially when I still have to plan and build the rest of the bike. Course I could build my own wheels, but I'm looking to get back on the road ASAP.

I like to think I'm a pretty nice guy...I just get a little deranged when something's amiss with my bikes.

Thanks again!

bigbenaugust 

Are they ceasing making the WT5? It was next on my list when I ended up with a Fantom Cross Uno. I may yet hunt down that 5sp hub and bar-end shifter for my Uno. Fantom Cross Cinco anybody?

fietsbob

,{Euclidian or Non Euclidian? )
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Euclidean_geometry


By the Way, the data you need is the Trail, as plotted out on the Ground-Plane.

Low-trail may be 'twichy' un-loaded , but as taking things with you makes a Bike More Useful,
a Good Sized Front load neutralizes that feel, and it is said to handle better that way
than the same load on a larger trail front end.

chucky

I dunno, but I doubt it because I believe all the IGH bikes have been rather popular at bikesdirect and they claim that when a bike is popular they expand their lineup of similar models (they have an posting account here at BF).

BTW, how do you like the geometry of your Fantom Cross Uno?...looks like the fit is similar to the Kilo WT, but the headtube is slacker which gives it a longer wheelbase and, undoubtably, less toe overlap.

bigbenaugust 

It's a little high, even for a CX bike. Other than that, no complaints. But the longer geometry was a deciding factor v. the WT5. I ride with panniers, so it was necessary.

chucky

I've put some miles onto my WT5 over the last 6 months, but never got around to updating:

-I put on the SKS P35 Fender Set which is only speced for tires up to 28mm, but works fine with the wide 32mm tires on this bike...installation was a real ***** though because there's hardly even 1mm of clearance.

-Gearing was also way too high so I also increased the back cog to 23T (which is the largest standard IGH cog manufactured) and now the gearing is perfect (besides even if I wanted higher gearing it's always more mechanically efficient to still use the largest cog possible and then increase gearing with a larger front chainring). This also required a longer chain in order for the wheel to be in the right position to clear the fenders.

-The small size 49cm frame fits my average 5'7" male build perfectly so no issues there.

-I don't know how the heck people were getting toe overlap on this bike because even with the smallest frame the stock toe clips won't touch the front wheel even if you aim the wheel at them with the pedal all the way forward...there is a little toe overlap now that I added fenders, but when riding it only happens when I hurriedly start pedaling with my heel when making a 90 degree turn after stopping at a traffic light, so no biggie.

-Wheelbase is short which makes the handling lively and the steel frame rather stiff...too stiff in my opinion, but I guess that's the tradeoff for a frame that'll last forever, quick handling (which I like), and the convenience of compactness for storing it indoors or squeezing it into the backseat of a small car (vs a folder which is what I bought this bike to replace when I cracked the bottom bracket shell clear from the frame with pedaling force).

So all in all I'm very pleased with the WT5 and, even if I might have preferred a slightly longer wheelbase, I have no doubt that getting that extra 1-2" of wheelbase in addition to all the features I found in the WT5 would have cost me 2-3x as much and that the WT5 is probably the most bike I'll ever get for $450:


P.S. That front wheel reflector is simply a piece of SOLAS Marine tape (Reflexite FD1403) taped to the "deep V" part of the rim...this stuff is miraculous not just in extreme reflectivity but in durability/stickiness under bad weather conditions/abuse/dirt (it stays on AND it keeps reflecting!). Plus it weighs nothing so you can tape it to all the moving parts of your bike where it increases visibility way more than lights without any possibility of failure (I tape it to wheel hubs, crank arms, helmets, etc).

Dahon.Steve

That's a nice bike and it's still out of stock. I'm surprised Bike's Direct didn't get more since it sold out pretty quick. I purchased their 3 speed and it's not bad at all. I had to get the rear wheel respoked again because of broken spokes but that's all the problems I've had. I can true the wheels myself so that was the weakest part.

The Bike's Direct 3 Speed Windsor has lots of room for fenders. I removed them but then again, I'm not riding in the rain anymore. The gearing is low, a 54 inch second gear but just perfect for me!

By the way, I also have the 5 speed Torker and that's a great bike. The wheels are way better but then again, it cost about $200 dollars more. The tubes are strong like a mountain bike. Seriously. The Torker was also high geared too and I had to reduce it with a larger cog! I guess the designers of Sturmey Archer hub bikes think were Lance Amrstong! ;-)

fietsbob

Custom ... then you can get what ever you want.. its either that or just make changes
where you want other things , than were on the product managers Contract ,
with the Factory that built up the bike.