khatfull

Greetings, first post in commuting since I didn't know where else, honestly to go.

Background - I'm tired of having one of two types of bikes: 1) pure race bikes (my Kleins) 2) vintage that I won't ride except on special occasions. I also live in Minnesota, land of 4 months of good weather. I want something functional, with fenders, and the ability to run 28mm tires in the summer and switch to studded when the crap weather comes. I'm also actively looking for a new job and the ability to commute is a big factor in that decision making. I don't plan on taking this bike off-road, maybe some light trail if the opportunity arrives....but this isn't a cross bike. I want something useful, functional, and able to be ridden 10 months out of our year.

Here's what I had in mind:

- I decided on the Pake C'Mute...function and price, everything I want is there. Great value
- The wheelset will be something like Mavic A 319s, 32H or 36H, Shimano hubs, SKS fenders.
- Road compact double crank and brifters but I was considering an MTB RD.

Think road bike, just more heavy duty and functional.

Herein lies my questions:

- Will hubs like Deore/XT/LX serve me better than, say, Tiagra? Are the MTB hubs any better sealed? Also, I'm a heavier guy (but shrinking)...the better dish of the 135mm hub is somewhat appealing.

- Do the MTB RDs provide any better sealing around jockey wheels and such given this will not be a fair weather machine? I know they're likely beefier and more durable from a "getting knocked around" standpoint but I don't plan that sort of heavy duty use. Or does the possibility of commuting make a case for the MTB RDs?

- Anything else I should think about given the intended purpose

TIA, any advice appreciated.

Leebo

My cross check is heavy duty and functional. I use mt bike stuff with no problem in the Boston area. So, you are in MINN? Thinking fenders? I run full cable housings to help with winter crud. I have an older rockhopper as a dedicated winter commuter. It sees lots of sand and salt too. Plan on regular greasing and cleaning. Planing on running a rear rack?

khatfull

Full housings is something I wouldn't have thought of, thanks.

Rear rack: not initially but part of the reason in choosing the C'Mute was the plethora of braze-ons to provide whatever I might need.

The Cross Check was in the running too but in the end the value of the C'Mute won out.

Thanks.

dynaryder

MTB der's will usually handle larger cassettes than road der's,but there's not a huge difference in durability until you get up into the high end(XTR is made to be durable,Dura Ace is made to be light). Same goes for hubs.

Only neg I see for the Pake is the semi-horizontal dropouts;if you're not running SS/FG/IGH you don't need them,and having to align the rear wheel every time is just extra work compared to vert dropouts.

chaadster

Man, having gone to disc brakes several years ago from V-brakes, I can scarcely think of anything worse than going back to the bad ol' days of cantis. Those things simply suck.

krobinson103

Decent dual pivots with good pads well adjusted are.. tolerable for me. I much prefer discs, or v's with cool stop salmons. Either provides more braking power. Still, cantis do give you sufficient braking force to be safe.

fuzz2050

XTR is just as weight centric as Dura-Ace. You only have to look at the new generation with aluminum axles to see that. If you're looking for durability and value, go with something in the Deore/LX/105 range.

khatfull

Thanks, I am looking to value with this bike/build and I think Deore/LX will fit quite nicely.

Googling I found the Tektro CR720 cantis that are apparently SLR/STI compatible, yay! Another "budget" component to add

Still looking for all those "values" out there...

ivan_yulaev

Specific answers to your questions:

Any Shimano hubs at the Tiagra level and above will be virtually identical as far as durability. The most important thing is the seals; I think Tiagra (or is it 105?) and up have dual dust seals which are about as good as it gets. Above that you basically pay for bling.

I have never heard of someone wearing out a modern RD. Crash, yes, but wear out, nope. The jokey rings might wear out eventually but you can get ball bearing equipped replacements (Tacx T4050) for <$20. So I wouldn't sweat the durability of the RD.

MichaelW

I like disc brakes on a winter utility bike. My basic Shimano cable discs are as good a V brakes but continue working in the wet and slush.
rear disc brakes can be located on the chainstay to integrate better with a luggage rack. Check the cable routing to ensure that the cable doesn't fill with water. Manufacturers haven't really designed a brake for this location yet so cable angles are generally wrong. Hydraulic brakes seem to work fine in the utility mode as long as you have flattish bars (trekking, North Road etc).

LX hub seals seem to be good enough, mine were clean after a 2000mile tour.

chaadster

Braking power on cantis is way lower than Vs or discs, but the worst part is the fussy adjustment that requires a mutitude of tools.

I swear I hate Pake now, for posting those pics of canti equipped bikes; they brought back bad memories of cycling in the late 80s-early 90s! It was an awesome time for MTBs, but undoubtedly the reign of the canti was a low point.

Okay, I'm taking a few deep breaths here...

krobinson103

Actually I have to say I absolutely love my Deore Hyrdos in terms of stopping power. One finger from bombing down a hill to stopped is very reassuring. My cantis work well enough given the entire bike they are on probably cost less than the price of hydros anyway. V's are good with the right pads as long as it doesn't rain. Salmons make wet rims decent, but no where near as good as discs. I also like discs because they are so very simple to adjust. One hex key, 2 bolts, pull brake, tight.

DogBoy

if heavy duty really is what you mean, you could go for something like a salsa fargo or surly LHT disc. If you are in MN land of 4 months of winter you are also in the land of "why is it always dark when I'm outside?" Consider a hub dynamo and lights. It was a little spendy, but I have dynamo lights on all my utility bikes now and like that I don't have to worry if I'm out later than expected and don't have to fuss with bringing in batteries to recharge them...ick.

Commodus

CR720s with good pads, properly set up, will launch you over your bars with one finger. I've raced and commuted with them extensively, and they don't provide any less power than the BB7s on my current commuter. BB7s are a lot easier on the rims, though.

khatfull

I guess I don't mean REALLY heavy duty...heaviER duty maybe. I've been using 900 lumen flashlights as headlights for a while now. I like the easy on/off when they're not needed and I'm not dragging around a dynamo hub in the daytime.

The cantis on my Fuji Touring Series V stop well enough...maybe not fly over the handlebars stopping, but well enough. I've been researching mini V-Brakes. If I don't go that route it will be the 720s.

fietsbob

Better than cheapest brake pads help any rim brake.. , even cheap new ones are better than old dry ones..



on new bikes , now I'm seeing rubber boots on the ends of hubs on pretty modest price point bikes..

so sealing against dirt is covered,
just may want to add grease in them, loosen cones and squirt in more, OEM got it down to minimum, for assembly..

spare_wheel

there are some upgrades in durability as you go up shimano and sram gruppos but they are not large and are progressively more expensive: ceramic bearings, jockey wheel fluoridation, chain electroplating, more anodization, and better alloys for chain rings and sprockets. from a pure QPR perspective i think a mix of tiagra-105 or apex is the sweet spot. nevertheless, i also greatly appreciate the lightness of my ultegra dt (purchased as individual pieces at firesale prices).

disc brakes improve rim durability tremendously. i have saved a couple of thousand dollars by installing disc brakes on most of my bikes.

dynaryder

Heh,try working on canti's every weekend for 2/3 of the year,which aren't yours,for free! I run a free bike clinic at the local farmer's market and see them all the time. Pro tip:get a locking cable puller(I use Pedro's),makes dealing with them so much easier.

CharlieFree

Do you have both front and rear hooked up to the dynamo? Any particular brand (hub or lights) you recommend?

chaadster

You are a saint!

khatfull

I don't mind cantis, and I agree 100%! LOL! Canonization began for Saint dynarider!

I appreciate all the responses here. This is a new style bike for me and the info has been very helpful, thanks!

I did snag a wheelset from bicyclewheelwarehouse after inquiring about some A319 wheels without disc hubs. They offered me LX hubs, A319 rims, DT Champion, DT brass nipples, all in silver, which is exactly what I wanted...for $140 + shipping! They had this built but untensioned wheelset...a customer had requested 135mm hubs but then changed their mind and went to road spacing. The LX hubs are slightly different one's a 570 and one's a 660, slightly different silver and logo...but heck, at that price for brand new hand built, couldn't say no.

That's going to whack a nice chunk of change off this build

dynaryder

Heh,thanks guys. The market director agrees with you.

khatfull

Well, I have the above wheelset on the way and had a couple framesets sell on eBay yesterday as well. So I ordered the C'Mute frame and fork last night...$256 shipped. I think that's outstanding.

I think what I've decided to do is use a MTB "rear end" and road "front end". 11-34 in back with a Deore LX RD (which I picked up on eBay yesterday too) and a compact double front, probably the Shimano FC-R600 crankset. The 34/34 will be a sufficiently low gear I think yet I'll still have typical "road" gearing for smooth flats.

Thanks all for the help...it's been great.

khatfull

Just an update, most parts have been either received, are in transit, or have been purchased. Few of the things I went with:

- FSA Orbit X headset
- 105 5700 brifters
- 105 5700 crank 50/34
- 105 5700 FD
- Deore M581 LX RD
- SLX HG81 11-34 cassette
- KMC X10.93 chain
- Tiagra BB
- Shimano BR-R550 cantis
- Civia Bryant 26.0/90mm stem (little more upright)
- Civia Emerson compact bend bars 26.0/40cm
- HL Corp SP-35 seatpost
- SKS Chromoplastics 45mm fenders (will use Planet Bike 45mm flaps)
- and of course the C'Mute frame/fork...

Now comes the part of a build I hate the most, the saddle. I'm used to more "racing" oriented saddles and I know stretched leather i.e. Brooks' don't work well for me.

Any recommendations for a lightly padded saddle more suited to a little more upright riding posture?

Thanks!

Medic Zero

Came here to say something similar. I understand some people have trouble setting up cantis, and that there are poor models of canti brakes that aren't good, but a good cantilever brake, set-up right is all the power you need. I use them on everything, and they work just fine to stop Clydesdale me, on a very heavy touring bike, fully loaded, in hilly terrain. Nothing wrong with good cantis.

I run Tektro 720's on my commuter, great brakes, excellent value.