I have decided I want to buy a Brooks saddle and I have decided to go with a B-17. My question is should I get a standard or the imperial? Any thoughts? I'll buy it from somewhere with a return policy, so I can always exchange it, but still, I'd rather get some input on the two saddles first. I read some older threads and it seemed some people loved the Imperial with the cut out while others did not like it as much as the standard. My commute is 6.5 miles each way, but I also use my bike for 20-30 mile long rides on weekends. The saddle will go on my Civia Prospect, a steel-framed bike with dropbars that was marketed as a "daily commuter" (https://civiacycles.com/bikes/prospect/) that could also do light (weekend tours). I say was, because I don't think they make it anymore although you might be able to buy one that s in stock somewhere.

My feeling is that one should try the standard before deciding they need the imperial. Most people don't need it. And lots of those who think they need it, really just need to set the standard up properly (hint: the nose should be just the tiniest bit up--like 1 degree).

+1. I'm convinced that a lot of the suffering attributed to Brooks saddles over the years has been due to poor set-up, rather than the saddle design.

I've got the B17N, no cut-out. Have about 4500 miles on it, recently did three consecutive days of 120 miles per day on it, and it was comfortable every day. I've never felt like I've had pressure on the sensitive bits. However, it's not a saddle that you can "get in the ballpark" positioning wise and be ok like you can with other saddles. Very, very small adjustments can make a big difference, once it's dialed in, it's great. I highly recommend a seatpost with infinite adjustment for the angle (typically two bolts), avoid a seatpost with notched positions for the angle (typically one bolt).

I have one of each (both B-17s). I started with the Standard and it took a couple of 150+ mile weeks to break it in. Several months later, I got an Imperial and was expecting to have to bear with it through a similar break-in period. However, the Imperial was awesome from the first time I used it. Some say that the break-in period has as much to do with your butt getting used to a Brooks as it is the Brooks conforming to your butt. This may have played some part in why I liked the Imperial, right off the bat. That being said, my favorite feature of the Imperial is that it is laced. This allows you to adjust the "flex" of the saddle; want it firmer? Tighten the laces. So, I think an Imperial can me adjusted to be a little more forgiving than a Standard.

I have the B17 standard and Swift. The b17's nose is pointed slightly up and the swift is horizontal. Both are extremely comfortable for me.

I've been riding Brooks since the 80's. Never had a problem that required a cutout. Go with the regular style unless you find you really need the cutout.

Standard B-17. As with previous post's get the angle of the nose dialed in (just above parallel). Three of my bikes have them including a tandem. I've ridden that saddle over many distances (up to 120 miles) without any issue. Best saddle I ever owned.

but its ex burger leather vegan ..

Brooks says the select is leather from Scandinavian Grass finished cattle.
Rather than Feed lot fed before the abattoir.

Cut-out tensioned-leather saddles are even more likely to sag than the non-cut-out version.

OK, glad to find this thread. I'd like to try a Brooks as well (125 miles a week) but find even the 'standard' b17 a confusing selection. There's this for $100, the atb/trekking model https://www.amazon.com/Brooks-Saddles...68572419&sr=8-, 5&keywords=b17+brooks at $136, a narrow, a heritage, and I'm sure I'm missing others. What the heck's the difference?

IMHO, bike fit and set up have a lot to with which brooks to get and how comfortable it will become. I have a regular B-17, an imperial, a team pro and B-68, each mounted on bikes with slightly different uses, geometry and fit. If your handle bars are level with your saddle, or slightly above - suggest a regular b-17. An Imperial is very comfortable, but works better with a slightly more sporty set up (than the b-17). The b-68 if your handle bars are well above your saddle or your riding position is upright. Have the team pro Ti on a custom steel road bike with fit and geometry optimized for my oddly proportioned body - it is comfortable +++.

The narrow is about 20mm narrower at the rear, most of the rest you see is decoration. Here is the "base model": https://www.brooksengland.com/catalog.../B17+Standard/

What do vegans use?? https://sheldonbrown.com/real-man.html

Thanks, so what is the "S" Standard? Specs are a little different but can't really tell what they would mean in real world use

Standard .. costs less, .. visually, nickel plated rivets are set by a machine operator ,

Skirt-edge carving & hand set copper rivets costs you more.

The nose is shorter to keep skirts from catching on it. That's pretty much it.

I bought a standard B-17 for my road bike last year. It was great, but not perfect especially when I get down on the aerobars.

Therefore I bought an Imperial a couple of weeks ago and it makes a positive difference. I must admit to reaching under the saddle and could feel soft tissue pushing down into the cutout. So if you are down in the drops a lot, the Imperial might be the best bet.

BTW: I put the standard B-17 on my more upright touring bike. Win-Win.

The saddle rails are plastic coated on the std B17. Over time / few adjustments this coating will crack and flake off, leaving the bare steel exposed and subject to corrosion, although it is easily fixed with a dab of black paint.

The fancier B17 Special with copper plated rails (and larger copper rivets) avoids this issue and is prettier to most eyes.

I hate when my skirts get caught though

If the OP is in the drops a lot, I would personally recommend the Professional.

I would recommend the B17 Champion Special over the standard. It looks better with large copper rivets and rails, plus the leather is thicker and won't stretch out of shape as easily

Best place to buy?

Wallingford Bike Parts www.wallbike.com has a pretty sweet "return if you don't like it" policy.

Thanks everyone. From what I'm reading, I think I will go with the B-17 Standard (or Champion Special). The main reason is it seems the Imperial is better for more aggressive riding positions. Even though the bike has dropbars, I am not that positioned that aggressively And, if I think I'd benefit from the Imperial's cut out after trying the standard, I can either return the standard, or put it on my Specialized Sport.