Which builder are you talking to if you don't mind me asking? That's post-Lynskey.

I really want to reiterate this point - I'd stick to established names when buying custom in general, and ESPECIALLY in ti. When buying ti, buy from a guy who builds a LOT of ti.

You know this cruddy old thing...

Such a smart, well thought out bike. I really need to decide whether to revamp my 20 or sell it and get a more modern folder I can take on the train. It isn't that critical (yet) because I don't do much rail-trail during peak hours.

I still think you should consider SS. While it's stiffer than Ti it will definitely not beat you up on the long hauls.

Stainless steel isn't inherently stiffer or less stiff than ti - it's the tubing diameters and build. With two frames of identical build, a SS frame will be stiffer...but ti is usually larger diameter than steel.

Tell your builder what kind of ride you want - maybe tell him about frames you especially liked - he'll take measurements (weight, height, etc.) and a good builder will be able to make a frame that does what you want - ti or steel.

I take it you really like your SS framed bike.

I wonder if I need to find someone closer to me so that I can actually get measured by them. Do you need to visit with the builders first hand (so that they know what you weigh, proportions, etc.)? I know having one closer would allow me to actually see their work up close.

How do you find "a good builder?" I guess you gotta ask around a lot, do your research, and then pull the trigger (or write the check).

My frame was built by Daniele Marnati in Milan...he's built far more frames than most US builders. He asked me a series of questions that I gave him answers to and he built me a bike that I dream about at night. It's that good. He built me a great all arounder' Italian traditional frame - he's not who I'd go to for stainless steel. I think having a local builder is ideal, and preferable, but not 100% required if you give the right metrics and your builder knows what he's doing. If you CAN, do a true fitting. I'd rather have a true master builder at a distance than a local one who isn't as talented.

As far as picking one - research - research it a lot. Talk to them...see who you connect with. I like builders who are known for one or two things rather than guys who offer every thing there is. Tom Kellogg loves ti - if you want ti, go to Tom Kellogg (he's expensive!). The best production frame I've ridden was designed by Tom Kellogg. If I wanted a touring frame, I'd be more likely to talk to Bruce Gordon. It all depends on what you want.

Who are you talking to now and where do you reside? Happy to give advice as able.

If you were to use the same tube diameter and tube thickness, steel would definitely beat you up more in any haul than titanium. Steel is an incredibly stiff material. The only reason that steel bicycles aren't as stiff as aluminum and titanium frames is that the tube diameter is smaller so it flexes a little more. A steel frame with the same tube diameters as an aluminum frame would jar the teeth out of your head.

You are right on diameter but wrong on the stiffness. Steel is twice as stiff as titanium. Yield strength is about the same while the density of steel is twice that of titanium. Titanium frames probably don't need to be as large a diameter as they are but the tube diameter is a left over from the days when industrial titanium tubing was used for Ti frames.

I very much like my SS frame. The builder did a great job utilizing the characteristics of the KVA stainless to give me a frame that is exactly what I was looking for.

Your thoughts on finding a good custom builder have merit. Not only did I provide my measurements to my builder as I would have to any other builder but I was able to ride with him on several occasions and he got to know my style of riding and what I was looking for in the frame I ordered from them. I believe these experiences are reflected in the bike he built for me.

Ultimately when ordering custom you need to be comfortable with whom you are ordering from. However you come to that comfort level is entirely up to you.

Let me be more clear...you have misinterpreted what I wrote and were overly literal:

A steel frame isn't inherently stiffer or less stiff than a ti frame...the frame's stiffness will come from what a builder chooses to do with the materials. Aluminum is inherently less stiff/dense than steel, but Cannondale riders will tell you how stiff their aluminum frames are because of what is done with the aluminum (very oversized diameter). Sean Kelly's aluminum frames certainly are not stiff.

A compliant frame can be built from steel or ti - and a good builder will be able to build you a frame from a variety of materials.

I've been talking with ninevector's frame builder (built his KVA SS). They offer a very competative price and my conversations have gone well. So far I like their approach. However, I am in West Central Florida and I'm not sure where they are - I assume "out West."

If you have advice I'll gladly receive it!

The only builder I am aware of in Florida is Mike Terraferma (I think he's near Tampa, but might be Miami). He's well regarded by some; I've never seen his work.

Going here might give you some ideas:

https://forums.thepaceline.net/forumdisplay.php?f=14

This is a pretty good list of some custom guys...

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=113817

If I wanted a ti frame, I'd go to Tom Kellogg...hands down. If I wanted a modern steel roadie, I'd probably be talking to Dave Kirk...Bedford...Anderson. It's really preference. For stainless steel, I'd probably go right to Waterford and go for 953.

I don't know who that gentleman's builder is, but...for me...I want a guy who's been around and who has built a LOT of frames.

My builder is Zealot Bikes out of Corona, CA. They're a small operation and I can't speak to the volume of frames he's built but after extensive conversation (and several rides) with Jeremiah I felt sufficiently comfortable with everything to place an order.

I've put over 1000 miles on the bike (since July 2013) they built for me and I have no complaints. I have also been impressed with the amount of post-delivery followup contact they've initiated. I can tell they're genuinely interested in my satisfaction with the bike and that means a lot to me as a customer.

Yes, you could have been clearer.

Still getting it wrong. If all things are equal, steel is inherently stiffer than titanium. That's the properties of the materials. While the frame stiffness may come from how the builder uses the materials and from the constrains put on the frame builder by the diameters of the available tubeset, if the dimension are the same a steel frame will be stiffer than a titanium frame. The only reason that steel has the (supposed) magic ride is because the tubeset has such a small diameter. That allows the frame to be more noodly than you could get away with if you were using titanium or aluminum.

All of which I stated previously, so I'm not seeing a point (other than linguistics/contrarianism). My post's content was quite clear, and in no way diverges from your argument over wording.

SO - for the third time - it is what the builder does with the material and what tubing he uses. There have been aluminum and ti frames with classic steel tubing diameters - and they were flexy as hell. We are fortunate to live in a period where builders have access to a LOT of tubing diameters in various widths and materials from various sources. Yes, a steel frame will be stiffer than a ti frame of the same width, which was stated above.

That's a new one to me - photo please

I just went through this process over the last year. If you are going to build a bike, do so such that the end result is a work of art. Something that is pragmatic, provides a comfortable, zen-like riding experience, and is still suitable to hang on one's wall and admire when the weather outside is frightful.

A couple of things:

1. If you don't like sloping top tubes, then whatever you do, do not settle for a frame with a sloping top tube. Otherwise, every time you look at the bike you are going to go "ewwww" and wished you stuck to your guns. I made the mistake once, and never plan to do it again. The same goes for threaded headsets and quill stems. If you like this aesthetic, do not settle.

2. Racks are lame. They add weight and they ruin the lines on a bike. You don't need them either, unless this is a grocery getter. Instead, find a way to attach a saddle bag to your saddle that you can quickly remove. There are posts on this site on ways to attach hooks to a bag, which will hook into saddle loops. If your saddle doesn't have loops, you can buy bolt-on ones from Velo Orange. A Carradice Barley will hold a six pack of tall boys with still room to spare for a mini U-lock, phone, wallet, keys, tools, etc. You can also attach a shoulder strap to it, so you can comfortably carry it around when you have your bike locked up. One of the advantages to saddle bags is that you can buy multiple sizes of bags for different types of riding excursions, so that you are never carrying around more weight/bulk than you need to. They also look cool if they are made of canvas and leather. Extra items can be carried in a shoulder bag when needed. If you need to carry bigger items, get a small rack for the front of the bike that you can quickly attached/detach a basket to. The front rack also gives you something to bolt a light to if you do decide to go with a front generator hub. The SON stuff is pretty cool.

3. Fenders are really a must, even if they do dowdify and domesticate one's build. One way to minimize the aesthetic hit, and possibly even improve aesthetics, is to get the fenders (either aluminum or stainless steel, really should be stainless steel though, they are worth the weight) painted the same color as your frame. If you can get stripes (penstripes and/or rally stripes) painted on as well, well now you are cooking. I made the mistake of being too impatient to have the frame builder paint me a pair of fenders before sending me my frame. Still planning on eventually trying to match the frame paint and paint them myself, but I doubt the results are going to look as good. Do not get plastic fenders. Just don't. Think long and hard about wood fenders before buying. Some look pretty nice on paper, but the weight hit and the lack of a curved sectional profile could ruin your lines. They may also start to look long in the tooth fairly quickly if your bike will see adverse weather frequently.

4. Belt drive and other new-fangled contraptions - Really research this stuff ad nauseam. Especially if it is something you can't change out if you decide you don't like it without getting a new frame. Personally, I would just stick with tried and true chains, and tech that is at least 10 years old like square taper BB's.

5. IGH - I am a big fan of IGH's. There is a weight penalty, but it is not much, and they keep lines on one's build simple. With bikes I find that simple always equals grace and beauty (i.e. track bikes). Don't go with anymore gears than you need, as the higher geared IGH's start to look clunky. I am quite fond of coaster brake models as you don't have to clutter up the rear half of the bike with a brake and cable, and still have the same amount of braking power on the rear in any weather/riding conditions.

6. Tires - Aim for 32mm, give or take. Don't cheap out. Depending on the level of flat protection you need, get as supple of a tire as you can afford. Grand Bois, Jack Browns, Paselas, Vittoria Voyager Hypers, and my favorite, Challenge Strada Biancas should all be good options.

7. Handlebars - Flat bars or north roads can be what ties the build together, but they also limit you on range. I find with flat bars and good padded gloves (talking gel), I can go for about 10 miles before I need to stop a bit to give my hands a rest. I am an old man though, so take this with a grain of salt. Not a problem if you are doing a leisurely day ride, stopping for drinks/food and photos every so often. If you are going to take this out on the highway and put on some miles, get drop bars. With flat bars, the type of grips can make a big difference. Get as much shock absorption as you can afford cost and aesthetic wise.

8. Accent color - The color of all the stuff that gets attached to the bike. Silver is usually the safest and best bet here for metal components, but if you decide to go with another color, make sure you can get all your components in that color. Metal components should all be one color, leather and plastic/synthetic components should also match. You will find that I violate this rule with my grips and saddle at the link below, and I think you will agree it is unfortunate. This takes a lot of planning, so think before you buy.

9. Lastly and most importantly - When considering any component, do a Google and Flickr image search, to see how things look and work out on a frame. Many times, you see the part by itself and think that would be nice to have, but when it gets bolted to a frame, you realize the dimensions are all off, or it just doesn't work the way you envisioned in your head. This is the only way to narrow down handlebar options, and even then, there is still going to be some trial and error.

My latest build at the link below is a fair example, in my opinion anyway, of what I am talking about. I have replaced the tires, am planning on replacing the grips, and need to paint the fenders, but otherwise this fits my needs to a T. If you click on the photo, you see the component list out, if you happen to be curious.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/98072004@N04/9512191955/

Ultimate Folding Bike https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWoeTOVYNY4 a Brompton in Titanium.
... QR levers instead of T knobs ..

Photo of my bike?

What can you tell me about that trunk bag? Does it stay in place pretty well or do you have to fight to keep it from swaying?

First off - that bike is beautiful. It would be a pleasure riding that to town for a coffee.

Thanks for the details. Again, I love the looks of that bike of yours. That crank it a work of art. What is it?

Definitely an ultimate in the folder category.

Good advice and leeds. Thank you.

A folding frame FWD MBB Recumbent that can be pushed around whilst folded
Shimano Nexus 7 spd or equivalent
Rear suspension
Fenders
A rear rack

But I don't think this exists as yet, unless I manage to do something with a Cruzbike conversion kit.

I never have any swaying issue. Of course, I don't really put anything heavy in it. Just extra coat, an inner tube, patch kit, mini pump and sometimes...lunch.

Campagnolo Record Pista. Probably the only better looking crank out there is a C-Record Pista, but I wanted to stick with current production parts on this build.

Quite possibly the greatest tragedy in bicycling ever, was the day Campagnolo decided to cease production of their C-Record Gruppo.