Actually, it has EVERYTHING to do with the frame material. Our typical Sunday morning ride includes 2 separate climbs of 1300 and 1400 vertical feet, respectively. As I learned, a 30 lb. hybrid bicycle is not necessarily the best tool for this ride. If you rode your steel bike and your clone rode carbon, he'd be waiting for you at the top . . . slightly annoyed.

And for what it's worth, they don't drop me anymore.

Here's the funny thing - the op hasn't posted since post #5

Every now and then, I stop by the bike section and WalHell.

Discount anything with a "suspension fork." Discount with extreme prejudice anything that has "rear suspension."

That takes care of about 80% of the adult bikes. Don't buy a Schwinn with deep rims and schrader valves.

The "fixie" Thruster has some fans. Cruisers. I like the 3sp Schwinns and even the 7sp derailleur versions. Bikes I wouldn't ride too far.

Saw one customer who rode every day destroy a dept store cruiser within a year. De. Stroy. Not one good part on it after he was done with it.

And then there's a Mongoose fat you can order online...

Only if he get annoyed in 10 seconds or so.

That "10 seconds" will vary in direct proportion to distance and elevation. My point is that all else being equal, frame types absolutely and unequivocally impact performance and, as a result, enjoyment. From Wikipedia:

"Frame manufacturers are free to use any material they choose in the frame. For most of the history of road racing, bicycle frames were constructed from steel tubing, and aluminium and titanium alloys were also used successfully in racing bicycles. Racing bicycles in these three materials are still commercially available and are still used by some amateur racing cyclists or in vintage racing classes. However, virtually all professional road racing cyclists now use frames constructed from various carbon fiber composite materials,and a typical modern carbon fiber frame weighs less than 1 kg (2.2 lbs)."

Don't get me wrong. I would love to have a quality steel-framed road bike in my garage, for the same reason I'd like to own a 1949 MG TC. So in a way . . . I think we agree.

Over the summer I fixed up my Italian steel Columbus SL lugged frame bike, put 10 speed wheels on it but kept just about everything else original. I took it for a ride in the park, the closed 3.3 mile loop that I do laps on all the time. After 2 rides, I put it down in the basement again and got on my carbon fiber bike, and I haven't been on steel again since. Even though that steel bike was my pride and joy in its time, it just doesn't ride as well as carbon.

Wow, I'm overwhelmed by the incredible response I've gotten to this post. I'm still trying to parse through it all (though been busy because we're going down to SB for the weekend to visit some friends, and of course the usual work/chores). I did want to let everyone know that I'm really thankful for all the great advice they've been giving. Someone private messaged me asking me what kind of bike we're going to go for. I'm not able to respond by PM because I don't have enough posts yet, but essentially I was going to answer the following:

I still have to talk it all over with my husband, who is a notoriously...thorough...decision-maker. We will likely not go for a Walmart bike because of previous bad experiences and our own lack of expertise. We'll check out Performance Bikes and Bikes Direct and maybe the other recommendation for the bike shop in SOMA as well as cruise more local bike shops. Haha, I guess that means we're going to look at everything but CL/eBay/Walmart (again, just because we aren't that experienced). I'll keep you all updated on what our final choice is, though don't hold your breath because it might take us a while!

Doubt if (m)any of them peruse the Bike Forums for advice on bicycle purchases. Or would find much useful information if they did.

Oy.

1) It's total weight that matters (rider + bike + stuff).
2) It pretty much only matters when climbing.
3) When comparing hybrid to road bike, you seem to be forgetting the large differences in rolling resistance and aerodynamic drag.
4) For pro racers, seconds matter over courses of hundreds of kilometers. For commuters, not so much.

Cheers, Charles

I think you really need to brush up on fundamental physics.

This. Apparently, I was way too subtle in my earlier post.

There is such an aerodynamic penalty to the upright hybrid position that any road bike will be an improvement. Shaving off a couple pounds with a carbon frame only makes a trivial improvement on top of that.

And you could probably use a lesson or two in politeness.


Our views and opinions are formed largely by our real-world experience. On my entry-level hybrid, I simply did not have the high gearing to stay with my group on the flats. On the hills, I certainly had the gearing, but could not stay with the majority of the group. (As Charles notes, I MAY have been fighting slightly more rolling resistance on the hybrid, but aerodynamic differences between the two bike types can be discounted when climbing a 7% grade at 7 - 10 mph.)


Anyway. Within about 2 weeks after purchasing, riding and getting to know my new carbon bike, I again joined my group of 5 riders. Starting at the bottom of PV Drive near Trump Golf course, we began the 4-mile 1,100-foot ascent to the top of Crest Road. Halfway up, I was riding alongside the leader. 3/4 of the way up, I began to pull away. I was the first to arrive at the top, and waited for the others to arrive on their own carbon bikes. Remember, this was the same group that had heretofore dropped me on previous rides, the same group that had previously waited for ME.

That was 4 years ago. The only difference was the bike. And the primary difference in the 2 bikes was weight. That ride was a revelation which instilled in me a new love for riding, and for the "magic carpet ride" feeling that is best experienced on a well-sorted carbon bike.

I'll say it a 3rd time: All else being equal - maintenance, rider strength, etc. - when it comes to the enjoyment to be found in a road bike, you usually get what you pay for. I do hope you are enjoying your $300 Craigslist steelie, however.

On a lighter note, LOL, anywho, how much do you drive that MG TC? and does it have constant mechanical and electrical issues? Is your frequency of issues pretty much standard among others that own those? Did you have to update certain items to keep the reliability up? I ask this because I use to own several older British jobs and gave up on them including a 59 MGA that was like driving a piece of glass down the road, and I have friend who has a TC and wants to sell it me but I'm really skeptical about it. I own several classic cars so I have some mechanical prowess so that's not the issue, the issue is nickel and diming me to death would not make it enjoyable to drive.

Disagree . . . but respectfully.

Aerodynamics mean little when standing on the pedals ascending a steep grade at less than 10mph. In this type of situation, weight - or rather, reduced weight - means everything. As I learned. Thanks.

In your opinion, the primary difference between an entry-level hybrid and your new carbon (race/road) bike is ...

weight?

My argument stands that you need to brush up on fundamental physics.

I don't worry about politeness as the truth usually hurts most people and superficial pleasantness wastes everyone's time. People enjoy conversation with me, in real life, because I am brutally direct and honest, which is lacking in most English-speaking locales. It also leads to much more interesting discussion, so a lesson is definitely not in order.

frame geometry

??

After giving up bikes in my late teens it had been 16 years since i last picked up a bike, My last bike was around 1997, It was a Mongoose (old school, Not new junk) Street bike, my whole childhood was spent on a GT pro, Mongoose and Dyno, Back then bikes were built right, So getting back into bikes earlier this year i decided to buy a Mongoose at walmart (Go with what you know right?) I got the xr200 And for the first week it was a nice bike, Then it turned sour real fast, I did some research since i was new to the mountin bike scene and found a mint condition Giant rincon, Needless to say the xr200 is long gone now

Yes. There are other and significant differences, of course. The hybrid had a heavier, triple front setup, the road bike is a lightweight, standard 53/39 setup. The tires on the hybrid were slightly wider, slightly heavier rims, tubes and sidewalls compared to the 23-700 Mavics on the road bike, which weigh next to nothing. The aluminum frame on the hybrid worked great - never broke in 15 years of riding - but it weighed perhaps 30% more than the carbon frame that replaced it.

So yes . . . other differences, not just weight. But most all of those other differences ALSO included weight savings in the recipe. Thanks.

Wow ... you have to be one the most obtuse people around here.

You provide all of the other reasons that make more sense than weight and still claim weight at the end.

It really is a quite backwards thought process ... almost in a manner to justify a purchase.

I'd like to talk with you in person to analyse if you really believe what you're typing now. And, if you did, what's the motivation?

I'd buy you a pint just to hear it through.

And then there are almost daily posts from people who have to upgrade the wheels on their any priced bikes from a LBS because of broken spokes and how they can't handle the weight of some riders while there is at least 1 heavy person on this forum who rides a Walmart bike that has never had a wheel or spoke touched since he pulled it off the rack and tossed it in the back of his pickup truck 8 years ago. Granted, that overweight person I am talking about only started riding daily a few months ago, but he has about 500 miles on daily rides since mid summer on an 8 year old Walmart bike that has never been touched other than adjusting the derailleurs, breaking loose a completely rusted and frozen chain, and replacing the tire tubes.

Does this overweight person I am talking about have some problems with his Walmart bike? Yes, I think he does as it is 8 years old and was terribly abused for 8 years. Would this person I am talking about like to have a better bike? Sure. I think this person would really like to pick up a better bike in the spring, but I'm not sure if this person will have the funds to do that so he will probably be riding his Walmart bike again once the weather warms back up.

Okay, aerodynamics mean less when climbing a steep hill, but the position still matters. The road bike position still allows you to deliver power to the pedals more efficiently, and drop bars make it easier to pull up to get more leverage than flat bars.

The real test of the weight-versus-position argument would be for you to set up your carbon bike as an upright hybrid and see if it's still so easy to keep up with the group.

If you all think about this a bit more you'll realize that aerodynamics and lighter weight stuff hasn't matter much at all. Since 1963 the average speed of the TDF only went up by 3 mph, but, during that same 40 year period the average miles dropped by just over 400 miles. So in reality the only reason the average speed went up was due to the mileage coming down. So where does that leave all this high technology crap we buy into? No where!

I sure hope the OP has learned a valuable lesson here.

The valuable lesson being "ask 3 people for an opinion, and you'll get 3 different opinions and one drawn out argument between 3 people."