Yolki, palki!

What is uncomfortable about commuting on a bike with 700x23s that is comfortable on a hundred mile ride?

700x28? 35?? 47??? Are you all preparing for Paris-Roubaix?

I'm trying to figure that out myself. On my commute, the answer seems to be "not very", or maybe "it doesn't matter."

The primary driver of lower RR is inflation pressure (and that includes changing tire size, though smaller tires should have higher RR.) but the differences are so minor that it's almost not worth worrying about. At reasonable speed, running a larger tire at 75 PSI is so close to running a rubber band of death at 145 PSI that it's not worth the effort. On rollers, the RBOD is consuming ~30 watts versus ~40 watts (but that's out of 250-300 watts total, less than 10%.) On a real road, they are probably comparable, and my tests seem to bear that out. My commute is very consistently 1:15-1:20. Swapping between those tires makes no discernable difference in commute times.

In comfort and flat resistance, the difference is VAST.

To answer the original post, the best tire for me depends on the time of year. When it's <40F, I put a high premium on flat resistance, so marathon pluses are my tire of choice. Flatting out when it is that cold (especially in the 20s) is not just sucky, it's potentially dangerous.

At 40+, I tend to go for lighter tires that are more fun. I haven't got a favorite at the moment. I'm liking continental grand prix four seasons right now, but I'm riding in the rain a fair bit.

This time of year, we get some nasty potholes in addition to
the usual nasties. I'm with Sloth. While I run a 27c, I occasionally consider going larger, not snaller.

Last year, I rode 28's spring to fall (I use Nokian 35's in the winter), but I think that was too thin. I switched to 32's this spring. I have a Panaracer Urban Max on the front and a Soma New Xpress on the front. As far as I can tell, they're pretty much the same tire, just different labels. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.)

I like the 32's. As long as they're fully inflated to 95 psi, they ride fast, but they also handle bumps better than the 28's. The biggest downside is that I have to be more careful about monitoring tire pressure. My 28's could lose 10 psi without much problem (120 to 110 psi), but the 32's really start to get sluggish at 85 psi.

You folks running those Scwable Marathon tires, how do they do in the rain or on wet pavement? Got a lot of grip to them still?

In my experience, the Schwalbe Marathon Plus is just as good in the rain as anything else.

Last year we had one surprise March snowstorm after I took the studs off, and they were OK in that, although I do not think of them as "all season" tires.

Paul

We should commute to work on a 23mm tire because "Pro's ride 23mm tires and 23mm tires have lower rolling resistance?

Pro's often ride 25mm and 28mm in the "Spring Classics" and on the rougher stages of the summer tours. A 23mm has a slight "aero" advantage at speeds above 25mph (of little value to the typical "commuter") and is a tad lighter for climbing mountains. A high quality 25mm tire can match or beat a 23mm tire for rolling resistance, cornering, braking, traction, durability, resistance to flats...

The UK's Cycling Plus editors like the Conti Gatorskins for balancing durability, ride quality, and weight better than most "commuting" tires.

I've never had a problem with Marathons in any weather; ice is the only problem road condition.

I use 25c Armadillos front and rear at 125 psi. They work great. Specialized will replace them too if you get a flat, as I found out. Now that is service. I got my first flat (piece of glass) when the tires only had 200 miles on them. Took the offending tire to a bike shop, grabbed a new one, and was out the door! No other flats now for 1,000 or so miles, hopefully the first was a fluke. I definitely gained a little speed going from the stock 35c tires too.

I use 32c Armadillos Nimbus. About 5000km on them, 1000km of loaded touring and the rest split between commuting and road riding. Got two flats on the rear at around 3500 and 4000km (only one needed a roadside repair, the other was a slow leak). The rear tires shows plenty of wear, the front still looks great. I'm very satisfied with them.

Well, maybe the RR is not that big a difference, but the weight difference certainly must be. Why turn all that extra weight? Why carry that extra weight up hills? As far as comfort and flat resistance... again, 700x23s are comfortable on centuries (and I know many people who use them on double centuries and beyond), so I don't understand the comfort issue. As far as flat resistance, I haven't gotten any flats on my 700x23s in 2 years and several thousand miles of commuting and recreational rides.

Unless one lives somewhere with no hills and lots of cobble-stoned streets, I don't understand the point of carrying the extra weight of anything heavier than a 700x23.

As far as weight, I just checked. My GP4 seasons weigh the same in 700x28 and 700x23 trim. A check of the specialized site shows that, for most tires, the diff between 700x23 and 700x28 is less than 20 grams. Even the armadillos are only about 60 grams more.

Besides, if rotating mass is your thing, swap your wheels for 650As or even 559s.

Even on "great" pavement, I find the 28s much more comfortable. On the pavement around here...well...it's like night and day. My entire commute is worse than anything I used to ride in Silicon Valley, and some is so vastly worse that you'd have to see it to believe it. Flat resistance is a very big deal.

And anyway, it's just nuts to quibble over 20 or 60 or 100 grams of weight when I'm carrying 10+ lbs of stuff.

I love my continentail top tour 37mm for the Chicago winter. Cushy, puncture free, good grip... well worth the extra weight.

For summer I have vittoria randonuer pro 37's

Have you ever even tried anything larger than a 23c? I'm guessing you haven't. Fatter tires are defintiely more comfortable even on moderately rough roads. Sure you can easily do 100 miles on 23's and do it faster than you probably would on 32's (obviously). But once you've used both there's no question that the fatter tires are more comfortable. Even if you're not riding Paris-Roubaix. That's a fact. Plus if you do any curb-hops, off-road short-cuts, gravel roads or anything like that on your commute, 23's (or even 25's or 27's) aren't exactly ideal. Tires more than anything else determine where you can and can't go on your bike.

The Schwalbe Marathons seem to have a lot of fans. I think maybe I'll give them a try.

I'm running a pair of Panaracer Pasela Tourguard tires at 630X32. I happen to have an old 27-inch pair of wheels, but the tire also comes in 700C, so no worries there. I've only had them for probably less than 500 miles and have nothing to really compare them too as far as road tires go, but the only flat I've had was a pinch-flat due to underinflation so far. Just last week I dug two chunks of glass out of the front tire. They had sliced right through the tread, but stopped dead at the Kevlar belt. The rubber also seems nice and sticky, and they don't feel heavy to me. Of course, my bike weighs about 30 lbs clean with my lock onboard, and more with panniers, so I may just not be noticing!

I use the 700X23 Conti Gatorskins right now, but when they wear out, will replace them witht he Specialized Armadillo 700X23s I have in the garage. I can't fit 700X25 Armadillos on either of my bikes. They rub on the brake calipers.

All there really is to understand is that this comfort issue is highly subjective. What is comfortable for you may not be comfortable for the next guy, as we can see from this thread.

--J

I switched to thicker tires after I rode my MTB with 1.5 tires down a pothole-strewn street I frequently took my commuter with 28's. The difference was amazing. With the 1.5's, I could ride over bumps I had to evade with the 28's. The wider tires therefore made a wider portion of the road available to me. That's certainly worth 100-200g of extra weight.

It's all about trade offs. Wider tires will allow you to go faster on bad roads. Narrower tires will allow you to go faster over smooth pavement. If Helmet Head's route is made of smooth pavement, then the 23's could be a good idea. But it's nuts to say that narrower tires are universally a good idea for commuting.

I'm stealing this from someone, but remember: It's a commute, not a race.

I couldn't agree more. Many of the "good ideas" offered up as universally best for bicycle commuting are nutsy. One reason is - as pointed out - it's not a dang race!

That's true. But what's funny to me is that cyclists who will talk about the "feel" and "damping" characteristics of different frame materials will poo-poo the increased comfort you get from fatter tires. The fact of the matter is that you could take the stiffest aluminum frame you could find and put some nice 28c tires on it and it would be worlds more comfortable than a really compliant steel frame running 21c tires at 120 PSI.

I suspect that such poo-pooing cyclists consider comfort (especially for others) a secondary issue, if they even consider ANY characteristic other than speed and "efficiency" as having any cycling value.

Yes, I see your point. My next thought is "what are the doing on the "Commuting" forum?"

FWIW: I do have a light-weight "racing" bike. A Dura-Ace 9spd equipped Cannondale CAAD5 that I run 23c tires on. Sure, it's fast. Sure, I can do centuries on it (I have in fact). Is it comfortable? To a point, yes. Would it be more comfortable with fatter tires? Hell yes! Is it as comfortable as my Trek X01 commuter on which I'm currently running 32c tires? Hell no!

I suspect that it is more likely that it has more to do with riding a bike that simply cannot accomodate anything larger than a 700x25. Or fenders. Or racks.

Which is great for a fair weather cruiser but not so great as a commuter, at least around here.