Somedays ... yeah, it's like that. Especially when you're just starting out.

But just like being sedentary creates its own momentum, so does making that choice to get out and get active. Once you do it a few times, ideally, it becomes self sustaining.

Or worst, once you hit rock bottom in your depression, and you'll try anything to get out of it, that can spur you to get active too

But there's less profit in treating patients that get better than there is in disease management. Disease management is the cash cow of the medical field. And the sacred cow too.

Is it true that governments (such as mine) also put price caps on antibiotics, so there's even less motive to develop them? That's what I heard somewhere.

Honestly, the time course is way to short to recover the initial investment. Chronic diseases are much more profitable. Currently, a large chunk of my research is dedicated to clever methods to reduce those costs.

Good on you. :thumb:

I have strong opinions on how a health care system should be run, just like everyone else here. But this thread might get moved into P&R soon if we keep it up.

But as far as the original post goes, there's no question about excercise being a good thing. One good way tobreak the vicious circle is to get yourself in a situation where you have absolutely no choice (like going car-free by junking your car).

Maybe a difference between Europe and the US.

US companies are doing okay on antibiotics.

CBST (using stock tickers here) does $1BN sales and $200MM operating income, almost all of their business is antibiotics (daptomycin) and if you take out the R&D spend for their next antibiotic programs, the daptomycin business is very profitable.

Antibiotic drug development is fairly inexpensive compared to many other drug classes. TSRX developed tedozolid through phase 3 clinical trials for $280MM total spend over 5 years, maybe 2/3 of that was actual R&D. This is because the clinical trials are relatively short (1-2 weeks dosing), not very large (few hundred patients), and success rates not too bad (if a drug succeeds in phase 1, odds decent for success in phase 2, etc).

TTPH is valued at $720MM and DRTX at $650MM, both have antibiotic drugs in development.

The generic drug companies make decent profits on generic antibiotics here.

The US has increased incentives to develop new antibiotics - fast track approval by FDA, extended patent life.

In general, drug development/sales is much less profitable in Europe than in the US. In the US, drugs are priced much higher than in Europe. US profits largely subsidize drug development for Europe and the rest of the world. The US arguably overpays for drugs, the rest of the world arguably underpays.

At the same time, the US really overuses antibiotics. Human medical use isn't even the biggest problem. Antibiotics are regularly used in meat animal production, in animals (chickens, hogs, etc) that are not sick.

The most profitable areas for drug companies here (in the US) are chronic diseases (diabetes, etc), cancer ($100,000 drug cost per course of treatment isn't unusual), and orphan diseases (get 2,000 patients with a rare genetic disease and charge $250,000 per year).

Those numbers seem extremely low ... I'd be surprised if total cost through trails was lower than £1B (or $1.6B).

Here's a recent newspaper article stating £550M (or around $1B) which is optimistically low.

New antibiotics are a matter of life or death - Telegraph

No interest in generics as they're dead in the water already.

OK, that's it. It's time for me to schedule in some fun rides for myself, for this purpose. I almost never get on my bike just for the sake of it, because I feel undeserving, if that's the word for it. I ride for transportation mostly, and that's fun, and it's good for my mood, but I need more. Not only that, getting away from the rest of life can give me a fresh and brave perspective for when I get back to it.

I get a picture of some posters who have no personal experience with individuals who have clinical depression, but feel free to jabber glibly about cures and fixes for insignificant or common cases of the blahs (or not in the mood to ride a bike), as if it were interchange with treatment for individuals dealing with serious mental health conditions.

If you're depressed while you're riding your bicycle then a) you've got a bad case and b) you're not pedaling hard enough.

I'd say that investing every ounce of will power & energy into doing something physically demanding is how most depressed people do those things. I myself sometimes take hours to talk myself into hopping on that seat, but once on the seat, it does get easier.

- Andy

Those are the right numbers for TSRX - pulled from their financials. I'm involved in investing in (err, trading) drug stocks, and we owned TSRX during most of that period, they didn't have any major R&D expense off the income statement.

Can also pull opex spend for TTPH ($160MM last 5 years, and they've started phase 3 trials, first will have data mid 2015 so total opex throgh phase 3 data will be <$250MM) and DRTX ($220MM last 5 years, got its antibiotic through all clinical trials and filed in Europe/US with approval expected mid 2015).

I don't know who is spending $1BN to develop an antibiotic - maybe big dysfunctional bureaucratic pharma companies would. Increasingly their model is to let small lean companies do the development, and then buy those companies for about $600-700MM after the drugs are successful in phase 3 trials and look ready for approval. I guess you could that that antibiotic development thus costs $600-700MM, since that's what the big pharma pays to buy the small company. But at that point the drug is largely derisked and less than a year from commercial launch, which is so much better than spending big money for the chance to fail 3 or 5 years down the line. And these small companies and their drugs keep getting snapped up, so the big pharma companies clearly expect profits.

Yes, but it's just a derivative of an already existing class. That's not particularly useful as it's based off a 2002 compound from AZ.

I mean novel as in novel mechanism of action.

Anyone can make an analogue of an already existing family.

edit: I do like Cubist as a company though.

Point taken, but the non-novel antibiotics work for their purpose, cure rates are high, and they will be profitable.

No. Resistance will appear must more rapidly in a derivative, which is why their used as a last line of defence and not in feedstock as previously suggested. They currently profitable, but depleting known classes.

Personally, I think they're a waste of limited resources, as do most other bacteriologists.

Diet in staying fit, is so good for your mind and body.
Keeping your life balanced, is the key to staying happy and positive/bike riding/working out/running to name a few X

I agree this is the most sensful thrad that i have red here in a very longtime.

All this debating about drugs is depressing.

Seriously, you should be concerned. This is perhaps the only metric that the UK is leading on the planet and it's absolutely critical for our long-term survival as **** sapiens. Until 5 years ago, extraplanet colonisation was at the top of my list, but this has escalated beyond this, although what's going on in the states right now toward extraterrestrial inhabitation is very impressive with privately funded firms.

Bicycle rides are nice.

Everyone should should enjoy them while they can.

However, default mode is a bicycle as seen in this photo ... so I don't think bike rides are going anywhere. (Third person from left is on a bicycle.)

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=414569

Everyone should enjoy.

o_O

not possible ... life is a zero-sum game in the given local environmental, however, all boats rise with the tide of global economic prosperity.

I like swimming.