I was thinking the exact same thing! In this thread, black ice is any ice on the road surface; but I've always thought of black ice as the ice at stop light from exhaust in sub-zero weather. Maybe it's a Minnesota thing, dontcha know, like hautdish.

For me it is any ice that is hidden or not easily noticeable

wiki
Here is another definition of black ice

I rode my trike to work today.

looking for a contact lost in the middle of the road?

That's the difference between areas where below 20F is relatively rare, and below 10F rarer yet, compared to places where near 32F is the exception. You need it to get colder to get black ice, we need it to get warmer. Also, IME very cold ice isn't all that slippery when compared to wet ice. (My Minneapolis experience is limited. I spent one winter there 40 years ago. -- actually it was only a week in January, but ti me it was a whole winter)

BTW- I've also spent some time in parts of Europe where, when conditions are right they get what is essentially ice dew or frozen fog. This happens overnight and can lay down sheets that are miles long. It's a very nasty surprise for early AM drivers, and causes chain reaction collisions involving hundreds of cars. I was very lucky to miss one of these on a drive to Bologna only because the sun was in my eyes and I slowed down enough before I saw the pileup. As it is I ended up on the side of the road facing the wrong way.

That video isn't of a crash caused by clipless pedals. His right foot was out of the pedal and on the ground (look at the lean of the wheel) and he misplaced his foot. It was a bobble and could happen with any pedal. He couldn't have kept from falling over with a platform pedal because he was off balance as soon as the bike fell to the left.

You only ride in a straight line? Makes it tough to get anywhere.

Yes, falling from a bicycle on ice usually happens without warning. You don't get warning no matter what kind of pedal you use and you don't have time to "prepare" for a crash. Every fall I've experienced on ice has been of the "Surprise! You are on the ground!" type and being able to get my foot off the pedal wouldn't have helped.

I have been able to put my foot on the ground once to try and "save" myself and it was a big mistake. I sprained a hamstring doing it which is one of the reasons I don't even try to get my foot on the ground on ice. I may get bruised but at least I'm not going to break anything.

I'm also aquatinted with someone who did get his foot down when he slide on ice. He managed to get the bike sideways and go over the high side. His leg under the bike was folded under and resulted in a compound fracture of both bones in his lower leg and a pylon fracture of his ankle. His recovery time...with secondary infections...was roughly 9 months. That's 9 months off a bicycle and he still walks with a bad limp. Had he been using clipless or had he not tried to "save" himself, he probably would have slid on the ice, crashed and had a few bruises.

I'm riding the bike down in a crash and am glad my feet are attached.

This is what I'm afraid of happening. I watched a woman go around a traffic calming circle with her leg out to catch herself if she went down. In my mind all I could envision was her going down and having a gruesome leg break.

My just made up motto is "Ride the slide on your side with pride".


@TransitBiker. I'm still in the hospital awaiting another surgery. Day 32 in the hospital.

A fat bike with non studded tyres is great in deep snow that might stop other bikes, they ride great, are extremely stable, and handle ruts extremely well.

Their low contact pressure makes worse on ice than a narrower tyre.

With studded tyres they are pretty much unstoppable.

I used to do this. I do it on a bicycle too. It works.


https://www.google.com/search?q=flat...ml%3B720%3B480

I believe he unclipped his right foot but kept his left foot clipped in so when his bike leaned on the left he was unable to unclipped in time. Could be like being surprised by black ice and having to react quickly.


Nope but i'm extra cautious when i have to turn while riding on ice without studs.

For my last 3 close call on ice i was able to see it coming even though i was surprised by the speed of my front wheel skidding the last time so it is possible to see it coming. Each time i saved it by putting my feet on the ground.
It was something like this. My early warning was that it was a low traffic and unplowed street. So even though i wasn't able to see ice i expected it to be there.



Sorry for your friend.
That being said every situation can take a bad turn of events. Bad luck happens.


Here is an article about how to drive on black ice. Should apply to bicycle as well.
https://www.wikihow.com/Drive-on-Black-Ice

I like speed and personal experience tells me that the danger of crayoning pavement is overstated (esp on the commuting forum).

As long as you're well equipped to go for speed on ice.

Another very similar and insidious hazard, I found out to my chagrin accompanied with a rather large amount of pain, is trace moisture on top of fresh asphalt sealant. The detailed circumstances are rather dull to relate, but this was a little while after some scattered thundershowers had dissipated, yielding to strong sunshine. Although I had been drenched, the road and I myself were already completely dry (except for my own sweat) when I reached my destination, which happened to be an asphalt parking lot that had been resealed less than a week previously. Though I didn't see or appreciate it at the moment, there must have been trace moisture on top of the sealant. Upon turning from the road onto the parking lot, as soon as my front tire contacted the sealant surface, the traction went from normal to basically nothing, and I went down like a sack of potatoes.

Motorcycles on ice is a lot of fun. That's a motorcycle wheel, in case someone did not notice. I made studded tires for my motorcycle. They were nothing like that, I don't think that will actually work.

Black ice is nearly invisible. That's the common thread between all the various definitions of it. It can form at freezing, it can form at oh-heck-its-cold -- any time there's liquid water on a surface that's below freezing.

There were some interesting bits of it on my ride home today. High today was something like 15F, but it was sunny. Late feburary the sun angle is high enough that the sun will melt ice even in quite cold conditions. The meltwater flows down hill, and when the sun stops hitting it, it freezes. It's particularly bad today, because it's not snowed in some time, so there's very little residual salt around, to keep the ice melted. Fortunately, there's enough auto traffic on the roads I ride to keep the ice to a minimum, by spreading the puddles out.

The other place we see it in Chicago is under railroad bridges. Water drips down, forming nice puddles of ice underneath.

MUP, straight, going up a minor incline. This was at night or I'd have spotted it 50 yards away.

The uptown has 26 inch wheels. I'm thinking it may -just- clear the fenders, which is fine.

It was dark, and I had not noticed the fact that the ice was mid-freeze right as I set out. It doesn't normally get slathered in black ice all over as it did that night. Typically the weather we had means the paved areas plus a bit off the edge is dry or in the process of drying. The areas affected were so affected due to the topography of the area, with a creek nearby and the incline creating a "sink" that the cold air settled into. The ice was right in this sink. The park is always much colder than the surrounding areas, and if you go from swamp rd/bypass through to where I went down, you can feel the temperature drop as you get lower & further toward the creek. Long story short, this rarely happens & I've never gone down due to ice till this weekend.

I'd ride on pond ice with that.

- Andy

Wish I could push a button & get you 100% man, for real.

I feel very fortunate that I seem to have very robust bones compared to other people. I've gone down very hard a few times, once chin needed sewing, once elbow took 50% of a 25 mph curb dive, and one time gap between sidewalk & grass grabbed tire & bike went right while I kept going straight.

I'm here (after riding for so many years) because of good genes and exceptional situational awareness, and a huge barrel of favourable happenstance. I'm so sorry your barrel didn't have the better outcome, but at least you're still here. You never know what life has in store. You can't do anything but try to prepare & mitigate as much risk as you can.

- Andy

He lost his balance because put his unclipped foot down too close to the bike and fell over. Having platforms wouldn't have saved him from falling because his foot on the pedal could have been put down fast enough to catch his balance with any pedal. The natural...and mostly useless...response is to try to lean your body back towards the "high" side, i.e. the side you are falling away from. It usually doesn't work and you are going to land in a heap.

As am I. Pedals make no difference.

And those of us who use clipless could have put our foot down with sufficient warning as well. But I've been in lots of situations where there is no warning. One femtosecond you are on your wheels and the next femtosecond you are on the ground. In those kinds of conditions, putting a foot out to "catch" yourself just results in injury. Standard procedure in mountain biking is to keep all your arms and legs inside the vehicle. Same applies to snow and ice.


My point is that I've had lots of crashes with clipless on snow and ice. I've never tried to "catch" myself if I'm going down. Catching yourself whether by putting out an arm or a leg will usually result in an injury. Crashing is going to hurt and you may still get bruised and battered but at least you won't be broken.

There isn't much in that article that applies to bikes other then don't get on the brakes. Cars have two more wheels and a wider stance than a bicycle. When their front wheels slide then don't fall over. Bicycles do. And the rider, being high up and unprotected is going to hit the ground. Resist the urge to "catch" yourself. You can't.

"Black ice" is an over used excuse. It's only "invisible" to those who don't look. If the road is wet, near the freezing point of water and there is water in some form falling out of the sky, anyone using the roadways should expect slick conditions. I see far too many people who see a wet road at anything less than the freezing point of water, assume that it's just wet and drive at stupid speeds.

Im Ok on my (studded tire fitted) bike when the ice on the ground is hard to walk on.. without studs on the shoe sole too .


Clear sky, no cloud cover, its 31 now but has been dry for a week, so no Ice.


The News is as good at looking out the window and talking about the current weather, as I Am.

when they say or I see Ice, I break out the studded tire MTB ..

Thank you for the well wishes.

But I find the last paragraph a bit insulting and offensive.

One time a few years ago, days after seeing any ice on two of my main routes, I took a third route for variety. I was booking pretty good on my street tires fighting the morning glare when I entered a shady parking lot behind a boat house by a lake. The bike slid out to the right and by left foot somehow came out of the toe clip and I slid about 20 yards like some dirt-track motorcyclist until on the far end, by tires caught dry pavement and my bike righted itself and I braked to a quick stop. I suppose had I been in my 20s or 30s I would have been thrilled. But having reached 50 I was scared, upset from not seeing the danger beforehand and sore from the stretch (!) So now I'm a little more cautious. However..thanks to Bike Forums, I have been able to push my cold weather biking threshhold back down to 12F; and I plan to get studded snow tires for next winter and return to riding in the snow for the first time in 15 years (although this time, smarter, warmer and safer) Thanks BF!

Hah, hah, it does sound like bacon on the griddle! Mmmmmmm......studs and bacon.

Hah, sounds like a new signature line!