Some people might find the term offensive.

The fact that with black ice, you are generally on the ground before you realize it, makes pedal selection out of scope.

I didn't fell on ice 3 times the last 2 winters so it seems relevant even more since you have even less time to react so tiny differences between systems becomes even more relevant. That's when you push things to the limit that differences usually emerge be it in mathematics in order to define a function, looking at black holes to understand the universe or knowing what the limits of a F1 engine are.

On ice because it can happens fast and without any warning, your bike usually falls before you realize that your bike is falling. With clipless your feet are still attached to the pedals before you start reacting, on platforms your feet are free to move in all but one direction therefore can lose contact or not with pedals before you realize your bike is falling. Since we're talking falling on ice chances are that your bike will fall on one side or the other. Therefore, one pedal may go up and one may go down so chances are that you may start losing contact with one pedal while increasing contact with the other one because of inertia while the bike is slipping. At this time platforms offer the advantage to not contribute to you rotating contrary to clipless. While falling your body gather energy before the reaction occurs. Then comes the reaction...At this time on platforms you have the option to move your feet in nearly all directions while with clipless you need to unclip unless it is a relatively violent falls that make you unclip automatically.
You can guess it from this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxpB1TszKME


It seems that there is so many variables to black ice forming that i don't think there is a way to predict where and when black ice is going to form.
I've noticed though that there is usually more black ice in small unplowed streets than in wide busy streets and along where cars usually park.
That's usually a dilemma for me. Small and slippy streets with just few cars passing or ice free (for the most part) but wide and busy streets.

Riding on ice, or any slippery surface, one should turn while keeping the bike straight up. However studs up on the sides of the tread are important, like when riding straight over refrozen foot prints in the ice. The pressure should also be as low as you can without getting pinch flats. But, still keep the bike upright at all times. The big ruts and holes will be slightly better with studs on the outside edge of the tread. When I go over 3" foot prints, or worse, I have about 15 psi in the front and about 20 in the back. 26 x 2.35 tires.

That was a lot of words and silly handwaving to say that you agree.

Bike falls not the cyclist. We don't fall on the ground every time our bike falls. Therefore there must be something that prevent people from ending up on the ground. Reaction maybe?

Usually the cyclist ends up on the ground with the bike, but occasionally not. Happens regardless of the pedal type. If you think platforms help, now would be the time for some data to back you up.

It's your contention that it takes longer to get out of clipless pedals. It's not true for someone who knows how to use them.

I was going to ask you the same thing it is all hypothesis and opinion. I couldn't find a video of an unexpected fall on ice on youtube. To set things straight or at least understand better the process.

I was looking at same tire, probably the one I'll end up with, if it fits.

The crazy thing, is that I was riding over black ice that was in the process of freezing so I thoight the whole path was just going to be that odd crunchy clear ice that is more dangerous looking that it really is. The ice had a rippling pattern to it, like really old glass windows. Was so strange!

Hey! Good to see you posting!! Hope your recovery is coming along quickly and completely! Ugh, ice on corners is the worst. The kind we get here is usually due to sloppy plow jobs & then freeze/thaw in the compacted snow. Thankfully there is usually some kinda visual cue like a snow pile so I can slow and swing a bit wide to avoid it. Sometimes I gotta stop and walk it if it's a narrow lane with a large batch protruding from the curb.

I've had a few of those moments where I couldn't see a good ending but somehow made it through. Potholes and by that I mean DOT mine shafts to China in heavy traffic with snow filling the shoulder has been involved frequently.

What I've done is slam on the brakes then try to stay upright to get my brain in "control recovery" mode on snowy or potentially icy/slushy rides. Helps loads.

- Andy

Were you in traffic or MUP? Were you in a turn or just going straight?

When I was preparing for the winter, the first thing I thought of was getting winter tires. First it was winter treads for my 27in road bike, then studded 26in tires for my son’s mountain bike.

Black ice forms when moist air or rain freezes on frozen roads, it also forms at -18C and lower when car exhaust condenses and freezes and when road de-icer stops working.

High traffic areas are really dangerous in very cold weather as even the roads that look clear could be more suitable for shinny than for walking or riding.

Studded tyres and good riding skills solve most of that, riding through packed ice is a different beast as then you need more off camber studs to let your tyres crawl up and down and provide extra lateral stability and braking.

The smooth, silent ride of studded tires on black ice is one of winters great pleasures.

There's a lot to be said for wearing winter boots/thick socks in winter which probably means using platform pedals regardless of how you feel about SPDs and black ice. No way I'm paying big money for insulated winter cycling shoes when I have boots that do the job just great.

That's why i usually avoid those tyre traction dependance moments if i can and it usually is just fine most of the time (no lean, no hard braking and only from the rear, no unecessary steering....)
My near fall event this winter was due to ice forming everywhere including in the middle of the street under the snow that lie in between the left and right car's wheels. It was steep from the middle and not flat. Without stud on that was fun
Something similar to this

Mine are the 700cx35mm, they measure right under 35mm on Mavic a319 rims with an internal width of 19mm.

It sounds like frying bacon...

That looks like pure fun. I really only worry about black ice during a turn at speed because in that situation you are going down regardless of your pedal or shoe choice.

Sounds a little like this...


This was AM ice on brand-new blacktop, going from the sunny section to the shady part of the road. I was going so slow and taking such care to make an easy turn, but the ice won.

If there is ice, I will only ride my Marin with studded front tire. I won't even ride my fatbike on icy conditions, without studs, a fatbike isn't much better than the Kona.

The best compromise if you want to avoid studded tires but get better grip on winter conditions, Continental Top Contact. I've used Top Contacts for one winter on front and back wheels, but they weren't a match for bare ice. Now I have the Top Contact rear and Mount & Ground (studded) front - (knocking on wood) no wrecks with this combo.

The thing to keep in mind about black ice is that it's different than normal cold weather ice or icy roads in general.

Black ice forms only within a narrow temperature band near 32F. (lower on salted roads). There are many techniques for riding safely on icy roads, but black ice hazards relate to riding on roads that are generally clear or unfrozen. So it's the element of surprise that creates the greatest danger.

Sometimes you'll see black ice even when it's above freezing and you have no reason to expect it. For example after a bitter cold spell road surface temperatures can vary greatly. The sun warms most of the road, but a section shaded by buildings may stay colder, so melt across the road freezes on contact. If the ice patch is short enough you'll be past it and able to recover before you go down, but a long patch on the north side of a tall building can nail you when you least expect it.

Not if you don't lean your bike while turning (going slowly). At least it works for me most of the time. If you're going for speed you're looking for trouble.

Actually, that's when it stops sounding like frying bacon. Frying bacon is the normal sound of studs on dry pavement - that's the sound of my ride from December to March.

It's amazing how silence is such a winter thing. I remember waking up in the morning, not hearing the steady clatter of tire chains on pavement, and realizing that new snow was muffling the sound and school was probably off. Wonderful memories.

Two winters ago I hit a patch that had no sheen whatsoever, completely invisible.
It was just after sunrise. Air temp was about 34F, and we'd had dry weather for weeks. But it was in a spot in a park that never gets direct sun, and I think a thin frost had formed there.
I hit my face, broke a tooth and bit all the way through my upper lip.
I still commute in winter, but I still get nervous when the temp hovers around that freezing mark. And I no longer lean into curves when it's cold.

I'm suddenly hungry don't know why


Ouch! That hurts. I hear you. Happened to me a long time ago.

Terminology overload.

What I grew up thinking of as black ice is formed under different conditions. Black ice to me is when it's so cold that the water vapor from car exhaust freezes on the pavement while the cars are stopped at lights. It's especially treacherous because it's at intersections where people are trying to stop. It's also too cold for salt to have any effect.

MAYBE EVEN a set of studded tires?

I find it hard to believe that anyone rides without them if ice is even a possibility.

I have never gone down once while riding with my Nokians. The biggest problem I have is remembering that it's slippery when I stop and put a foot down.