View Poll Results: What type of assist system do you prefer?
Pedal assist only (Bosch, etc)
24
45.28%
Pedal assist + handlebar throttle (various configurations)
21
39.62%
Throttle + conventional pedaling
8
15.09%
Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll
What would it take to convince you that pedal assist is better?
10-24-16, 09:50 AM
#76
Junior Member
Thread Starter
I fail to understand why so many e-bike people are willing to accept unreasonable restrictions on what is essentially a harmless activity.
The general speed limit for interstate highways in the USA is 65 MPH, and yet there is not one single car company or motorcycle company that only sells vehicles electronically restricted to that speed. Roads already have posted speed limits, and police give out tickets to people who don't adhere to those limits. Even the smallest, slowest scooters and motorcycles are built with engines powerful enough to exceed speed limits on most public roads, and the smallest, slowest cars are built with engines powerful enough to exceed the fastest highway speed limits in the country.
Motorized bicycles are the slowest, lowest-powered motorized vehicles on the road; they likely cause far less damage, injuries and deaths than any other class of road-legal vehicles.
Why do you think that they need tougher regulations than everything else?
It makes no sense at all.
It is a silly issue for legislators to even bother with, and if police in your town have time to bother motorized bicycle users--then your town simply has too many police on the payroll.
Somebody lied to you.
You don't need a pedal-assist-only law.
You don't need a power limit law, at least as long as the authorities continue to ignore that issue with cars and motorcycles.
You don't need a motorized bicycle speed-limit law, every public road is already marked with speed limit signs already.
Because of their lack of weather protection and limited carrying capacity, motorized bicycles already have big drawbacks to their usefulness.
Why accept laws that make them even less so?
You are giving up something important to you, that doesn't interfere with anyone else, and getting literally nothing in return.
The general speed limit for interstate highways in the USA is 65 MPH, and yet there is not one single car company or motorcycle company that only sells vehicles electronically restricted to that speed. Roads already have posted speed limits, and police give out tickets to people who don't adhere to those limits. Even the smallest, slowest scooters and motorcycles are built with engines powerful enough to exceed speed limits on most public roads, and the smallest, slowest cars are built with engines powerful enough to exceed the fastest highway speed limits in the country.
Motorized bicycles are the slowest, lowest-powered motorized vehicles on the road; they likely cause far less damage, injuries and deaths than any other class of road-legal vehicles.
Why do you think that they need tougher regulations than everything else?
It makes no sense at all.
It is a silly issue for legislators to even bother with, and if police in your town have time to bother motorized bicycle users--then your town simply has too many police on the payroll.
Somebody lied to you.
You don't need a pedal-assist-only law.
You don't need a power limit law, at least as long as the authorities continue to ignore that issue with cars and motorcycles.
You don't need a motorized bicycle speed-limit law, every public road is already marked with speed limit signs already.
Because of their lack of weather protection and limited carrying capacity, motorized bicycles already have big drawbacks to their usefulness.
Why accept laws that make them even less so?
You are giving up something important to you, that doesn't interfere with anyone else, and getting literally nothing in return.
03-24-17, 04:29 PM
#77
Senior Member
Bump, to let newer people vote.
03-29-17, 08:08 AM
#79
Senior Member
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I'm using PAS 99.9% of the time that I'm using PAS which is about 75%. Throttle alone is simply too limited, and inefficient under most circumstances.
03-29-17, 10:52 AM
#80
Senior Member
03-29-17, 11:13 AM
#81
Senior Member
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Like I mentioned, I have a throttle on my commuter; but I always pedal. Going with a throttle was primarily an accident due to not having a crank puller handy when I installed the kit. However, I have found that I really like the throttle on that bike due to the added control it gives me in both high-pedestrian areas, and on ice and snow.
03-29-17, 11:30 AM
#82
Senior Member
There probably are throttles out there that give you more control, but not the BionX throttle, it's basically on/off, not much in between... If I want throttle "like" performance I put it on level 4 and pedal normally and the bike moves forwards like normal with some assist, or push a little harder on the pedals and the bike moves with some alacrity, or pedal hard and the bike shoots forward like it has a motor or something... 
03-29-17, 02:22 PM
#83
Senior Member
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The throttle on my Radwagon is very smooth and progressive with much better control than PAS. I tried riding it once on snow, with the throttle it was manageable, but uncontrollable in PAS.
The rare occasions I use it is as a momentary boost to get moving on very steep hills, if I end up stopping in a high gear, or do a u-turn in close confines.
The rare occasions I use it is as a momentary boost to get moving on very steep hills, if I end up stopping in a high gear, or do a u-turn in close confines.
03-30-17, 09:40 AM
#84
Senior Member
I've found the throttle on my BionX to be the same, pretty much on or off. I'm probably going to remove it as I have it improvised to attach to drop bars. That will also clean up some of the wire tangle at the cockpit. The assist controls are just as easy to use at the console above. Regenerative braking can be applied manually at the console without the automatic reed switch at the brake lever. Level 4 assist is indeed the equivalent of a pedal controlled throttle. I've voted "pedal assist only" above as my throttle is somewhat redundant.
03-30-17, 08:56 PM
#85
Senior Member
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I'm surprised that BionX has such a flawed, substandard throttle as its marketed, and priced as a premium product.
The throttle on my Radwagon is so precise and progressive, I can engage it so gently I can't tell when the assist comes on, and can operate the assist at at such low speeds I need to keep a foot down to maintain my balance.
The throttle on my Radwagon is so precise and progressive, I can engage it so gently I can't tell when the assist comes on, and can operate the assist at at such low speeds I need to keep a foot down to maintain my balance.
03-30-17, 09:21 PM
#86
Senior Member
I am surprised that BionX has a throttle at all, their whole system is based on PAS that is the best in the industry. I think that their throttle is an ad on for the N American market as throttles are not allowed anywhere in the EU where their main market is. JMO One certainly doesn't need to use a throttle at all as the torque sensing pedal assist does everything so well that a throttle is superfluous. IMO
Last edited by 350htrr; 03-30-17 at 09:24 PM.
03-30-17, 10:11 PM
#87
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I am surprised that BionX has a throttle at all, their whole system is based on PAS that is the best in the industry. I think that their throttle is an ad on for the N American market as throttles are not allowed anywhere in the EU where their main market is. JMO One certainly doesn't need to use a throttle at all as the torque sensing pedal assist does everything so well that a throttle is superfluous. IMO
Thankfully I live in a state not burdened with ignorant, fear mongering regulations, and don't have a system with a flawed throttle, so I can take advantage of the best of both worlds.
Last edited by kickstart; 03-30-17 at 10:29 PM.
03-31-17, 10:44 AM
#88
Senior Member
The throttle fills the gap of the PAS lag when starting on a steep hill, and allows momentarily increasing the amount of assist above the selected PAS level.
Thankfully I live in a state not burdened with ignorant, fear mongering regulations, and don't have a system with a flawed throttle, so I can take advantage of the best of both worlds.
Thankfully I live in a state not burdened with ignorant, fear mongering regulations, and don't have a system with a flawed throttle, so I can take advantage of the best of both worlds.
03-31-17, 12:51 PM
#89
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Yes, the BionX is very nice, but the bike I rode still had the typical PAS lag which is the primary reason I like having a supplemental throttle on steep hills. It simply wasn't the best fit for where I ride and my budget, and highlights the reason why one person's perspective can't speak for everyone.
04-04-17, 09:46 AM
#90
Junior Member
Thread Starter
blaw, I am under the impression that it's not the "new generation" embracing eBikes but rather the older generation who still wants to get out and exercise.
As a member of the mid-30s crowd, I can say that my eBike only helps me go further and explore more, while still getting the same workout and riding time that I would on a normal bike.
What generation are you part of?
As a member of the mid-30s crowd, I can say that my eBike only helps me go further and explore more, while still getting the same workout and riding time that I would on a normal bike.
What generation are you part of?
04-13-17, 07:49 PM
#91
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Currently I have a throttle +conventional pedaling. It works well for me. To those who say, without ever riding with me, that I only, "fake pedal," I will point out that 1. they have never ridden with me; so they cannot know what I do. 2. I know what pedaling feels like, and I know that I am pedaling.
That being said, i would prefer a torque sensing bottom bracket for proportional input. However, that costs more than I wanted to spend on a commuter bike.
I do prefer having a hand throttle too. It serves as a useful backup. I will provide a couple of examples. The first is when I damaged the line going to the magnet switch based PAS that was on my cheap kit. I pedaled home and diagnosed the problem. I then unplugged the damaged cable and used the throttle, + pedaling, for a couple of weeks, until I had time to repair the damaged cable. Now it works fine again.
I will throw out another example, one that is slightly more dramatic; my daughter was hit by a car. Of course they just drove off. She needed to get home and was not able to pedal the bike due to the pain. She was able to use the throttle only to get home and a deliveryman helped her get he bike into her apartment. A long, hot, bath and a lot of painkillers later and she was fine.
(Why didn't she call for medical assist? This is America, she couldn't afford it. Medical issues are the#1 cause of personal bankruptcies and personal debt can easily land a person in jail.)
I see the throttle as a useful, nearly essential, backup system on an e-bike, even if the primary sensing is a PAS or torque based system.
That being said, i would prefer a torque sensing bottom bracket for proportional input. However, that costs more than I wanted to spend on a commuter bike.
I do prefer having a hand throttle too. It serves as a useful backup. I will provide a couple of examples. The first is when I damaged the line going to the magnet switch based PAS that was on my cheap kit. I pedaled home and diagnosed the problem. I then unplugged the damaged cable and used the throttle, + pedaling, for a couple of weeks, until I had time to repair the damaged cable. Now it works fine again.
I will throw out another example, one that is slightly more dramatic; my daughter was hit by a car. Of course they just drove off. She needed to get home and was not able to pedal the bike due to the pain. She was able to use the throttle only to get home and a deliveryman helped her get he bike into her apartment. A long, hot, bath and a lot of painkillers later and she was fine.
(Why didn't she call for medical assist? This is America, she couldn't afford it. Medical issues are the#1 cause of personal bankruptcies and personal debt can easily land a person in jail.)
I see the throttle as a useful, nearly essential, backup system on an e-bike, even if the primary sensing is a PAS or torque based system.
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