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Conversion or buy a new E-bike?

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Conversion or buy a new E-bike?

Old 07-27-18, 10:08 PM
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sumbikerguy123
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Conversion or buy a new E-bike?

I am new to the E-Bike thing and am getting older and my back wants me to consider some kind of e-bike to conserve my energy levels.

I have a 2004 Specialized Crossroads Hybrid with a 7 speed, 11/28 cassette, 700cc X 32 tires. My bottom bracket is listed as having a square taper 68mm shell, 113mm spindle, sealed cartridge. I use this bike for around town stuff, shopping, etc. I am considering either a conversion kit or buying a E-bike.

I am looking at a Juiced Rip Current (750 Watts) with 52V/21Ah + 8A charger for $2400.00. I like the features of the bike considering what you get for the money. Link: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/10...g?v=1519592884. There is a full spec sheet download in the same link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1B5T...cfaetbZiw/view

The majority of the reviews have been good/positive. This is a rear hub driven fat bike. Some say the rear hub motors aren't that great for climbing hills? But I've seen YouTube videos showing otherwise, so? I like the style and options on this bike and its ready to roll! I like the idea of the fat tires for comfort dampening the bumps and unexpected jolts from road imperfections, sidewalk curbs, bridge abutments, etc.

I live in Florida, so I ride on mostly flat land/hard paved roads for around town shopping and a few Interstate bridges to go over. No off road stuff as my bikes are not suited for that. If I have no hills to climb, so I presume the rear hub bike choice shouldn't be a problem for me in my area.

I have been looking at front/rear hub and mid-mount conversion kits as an option. The available online info is a bit confusing, but the reading I have done so far seems to lean in favor of mid-drive kits.

I've looked on e-bay for kits, they have many front/rear and mid-drive kits available. One I looked at: A rear hub kit for a 700cc tire from Calibike.com: https://www.ebay.com/itm/3000W-5000w...53.m1438.l2649 .... includes 72v18r triangle battery. Not sure how this would work on my bike or if its overkill? But seems like a good value for the money, $1,550.00.

I've looked at the Bafang mid-drive kits available from Luna.com. Bafang BBSHD 1000W Mid Drive Kitfor $679.00.

If I add the required options to the Bafang motor kit, electronic gadgets, tools, battery, charger, etc., the total comes to approximately $1932.95 or close to $2000. The bike I linked above is all assembled and ready to go is $2400, a $467.05 difference. A difference I don't mind paying if I can't get needed support if and when I need it.
I've been pumping the Specialized bike for 14 years now, so a new e-ride would be refreshing.

I don't see much of a problem getting the Bafang motor in the bike, knock on wood? But placing the battery pack might pose some problems as I have a small sized bike frame triangle and not sure of the battery pack size measurements? I could get these measurements from Luna and make a cardboard template. But I'm sure I am going to run into situations where I need answers I don't have? But if I can't get answers, then I might just as well purchase an assembled bike. I've asked similar questions on another board, but got no answers?

Same with Luna, got no answers? I don't want to start a first time conversion if I can't get any support to finish the conversion, so why begin? This has led me to think just buying a new bike would be the better move.

I don't have a shop loaded with tools, I live in an efficiency apartment and have basic bike maintenance tools and bike stand. So any suggestions or ideas on any of the above would be appreciated.
Thanks, sumbikerguy!

Last edited by sumbikerguy123; 07-27-18 at 10:23 PM.
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Old 07-27-18, 10:35 PM
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You need to assess your requirements as to speed and distance as well as what weight bike you can wrestle into your apartment (if you reside upstairs). A geared rear hub system might be optimal for you, but many have 135 mm rear axles and your bike might be 130. IMO, if it's aluminum, I wouldn't "stretch" the rear triangle. My first conversion was a 20 mph 36V, 10 w-h front hub from Dillenger ($679 plus shipping) on a steel mountain bike and it's still good for errands. The kit added about 15 pounds to the bike (17 pounds for the kit less two or so pounds for the parts which were replaced). Overall, the bike weighed as little as 40 pounds with a little bling, and 16-20 miles of range depending how much I pedaled. It's important to note with a hub system the rule of thumb is you need to be going about 50% of your top speed or too much energy is converted into heat. If DW responds, he'll mention similar (probably less expensive) kits from ebikeling and others have had success with superpedestrian, Hill Topper, Leeds and others; many are well below $1000 for the complete kit. If you're going to spend in the neighborhood of $2000, I would look at bikes from Specialized, Trek and/or other major companies and wait for a sale or new model year. These probably will be mid-drives, but satisfactory for your needs.
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Old 07-28-18, 01:08 AM
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[QUOTE=2old;20473927]You need to assess your requirements as to speed and distance as well as what weight bike you can wrestle into your apartment (if you reside upstairs).

R. Thanks for replying 2old. Only speed requirement is to go as fast as is reasonable given the circumstances. I have an elevator in my building so weight is not much of a concern.

IMO, if it's aluminum, I wouldn't "stretch" the rear triangle.

R. Not sure what you mean by "stretching" the rear triangle? Wouldn't know how to do that even if you could "stretch" aluminum?

If DW responds, he'll mention similar (probably less expensive) kits from ebikeling and others have had success with superpedestrian, Hill Topper, Leeds and others; many are well below $1000 for the complete kit.

R. I realize there are a lot of cheaper kits out there. But they don't have the high wattage and 52-72V systems and speed and distance on those low buck conversion kits is very limited. A decent 52v battery alone can cost close to $1,000.00 if you want more speed and distance.

If you're going to spend in the neighborhood of $2000, I would look at bikes from Specialized, Trek and/or other major companies and wait for a sale or new model year. These probably will be mid-drives, but satisfactory for your needs.

R. These major companies have nice looking mid-drive e-bikes, but the ones I've seen have lower wattage motors and their batteries are of limited voltage to get the speeds and distance you could get from a Luna BBSHD 1000 Watt motor and 52v battery. And their prices are ridiculously high, even if it was a year end sale. Example: The 2018 Turbo Vado 6.0 with a 250 Watt motor, but cost $5,000.00?
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Old 07-28-18, 08:45 AM
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The specs on the ebay kit suggests that it needs a 140mm dropout, likely too wide for your bike. It also uses a freewheel, so cassette users will have to settle for a less sturdy set of gears. I bet it will fly a bike at 33-36 mph, speeds too high for most rider keep up a pedal cadence. I can only guess at the energy consumption above 30 mph, Maybe 40-50 wh/mile? The 72V battery is 1300 watt-hours (wh), so an optimistic 26-30 mile range at those speeds. For a bike enthusiast, is 30+ sustained a reasonable speed? Is it necessary? Your call.

The Bafang HD will probably roll along all day at 30 mph too. The less expensive BBS02 is more like 26-28 mph. Luna sells you a lot of stuff you don't need. Many owners, like me, spent less than $1000 for a BBS02/battery and are happy. Last I read, the current Bafang middrive kits lost their ability to smoothly mix throttle and pedal assist. If true, I wouldn't want one. What I like about my BBS02 is that it's virtually silent and adds little drag. I've pedalled it w/o power for 20 miles. Well, I can do that with all my ebikes these days, and when I started, I could barely pedal a regular bike that far,

If budget doesn't matter, better to have both the old bike and an e-bike. They are somewhat different. Your old bike is light and maneuverable, with less concerns. The ebikes tend to be heavier handling and heavier period.

Moving to a fatbike is quite a change. Mine is a low end steel frame bike that I converted to electric. I liken it to owning a Hummer in the suburbs. It draws attention. It's a ponderous machine and of little use on pavement. Knobby tires sound like a squadron of bees. I switched to smooth tires, but they seem a little squirrrely on corners, It's still fun. I rode in snow twice. Enough of that, One of these days I'll get it on a beach. It's gone as fast as my mid drive, but my preferred speed is lumbering along at 12 mph.
.
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Old 07-28-18, 11:52 AM
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"Stretching" the rear triangle is, for example, putting a rear hub with 140 mm width into rear dropouts with 130 mm width; you're forcing the dropouts apart to accommodate the axle.
As DW said 35 or so mph with a BBSHD, 30 with a BBS02 (that's what mine achieved with a 46 tooth front chainring and 11 rear cog AIR). My BBS02 with a 52V, 6 a-h battery goes at least 20 miles off road since I don't use the motor about half the time. However, as he stated, there seem to be problems with the systems now**********
Since weight isn't a consideration, you could consider a direct drive rear hub system. A 1000w, 48V YESCOM kit (26") will go 33+ mph on a flat road with a 52V battery. I put together a system for an MTB for about $600 (motor kit $200; battery and charger <$400), but its range is only 12-15 miles.
BTW, my LeBS was selling 2017 Haibikes with a Yamaha mid-drive for $999 at the end of last year because Haibike had excess inventory.
Look at the tutorials on ebikesca for more information.

Last edited by 2old; 07-28-18 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 07-28-18, 11:59 AM
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Florida, being flattish.. you don't need more than a hub motor , but all the design action is in Mid drives..

Out here it's the opposite .. Mid Drive conversions add $1600 to a MTB cost.
Starting at 350w, .... more money .. 1kw motor gets you to the top of the hill quickly..





...
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Old 07-28-18, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Doc_Wui View Post
The specs on the ebay kit suggests that it needs a 140mm dropout, likely too wide for your bike. It also uses a freewheel, so cassette users will have to settle for a less sturdy set of gears. I bet it will fly a bike at 33-36 mph, speeds too high for most rider keep up a pedal cadence. I can only guess at the energy consumption above 30 mph, Maybe 40-50 wh/mile? The 72V battery is 1300 watt-hours (wh), so an optimistic 26-30 mile range at those speeds. For a bike enthusiast, is 30+ sustained a reasonable speed? Is it necessary? Your call.

The Bafang HD will probably roll along all day at 30 mph too. The less expensive BBS02 is more like 26-28 mph. Luna sells you a lot of stuff you don't need. Many owners, like me, spent less than $1000 for a BBS02/battery and are happy. Last I read, the current Bafang middrive kits lost their ability to smoothly mix throttle and pedal assist. If true, I wouldn't want one. What I like about my BBS02 is that it's virtually silent and adds little drag. I've pedalled it w/o power for 20 miles. Well, I can do that with all my ebikes these days, and when I started, I could barely pedal a regular bike that far,

If budget doesn't matter, better to have both the old bike and an e-bike. They are somewhat different. Your old bike is light and maneuverable, with less concerns. The ebikes tend to be heavier handling and heavier period.

Moving to a fatbike is quite a change. Mine is a low end steel frame bike that I converted to electric. I liken it to owning a Hummer in the suburbs. It draws attention. It's a ponderous machine and of little use on pavement. Knobby tires sound like a squadron of bees. I switched to smooth tires, but they seem a little squirrrely on corners, It's still fun. I rode in snow twice. Enough of that, One of these days I'll get it on a beach. It's gone as fast as my mid drive, but my preferred speed is lumbering along at 12 mph.
.
The specs on the ebay kit suggests that it needs a 140mm dropout, likely too wide for your bike. It also uses a freewheel, so cassette users will have to settle for a less sturdy set of gears.

R. Thanks for replying Doc Wui. 140mm = 5.5", my dropout measured w/the tire on is approximately 5"-51/4". So I guess your right.

I bet it will fly a bike at 33-36 mph, speeds too high for most rider keep up a pedal cadence.

R. At those speeds I would agree, unless maybe you had a huge front sprocket. But the motor would be doing the work, no need to pedal, just freewheel, right?

For a bike enthusiast, is 30+ sustained a reasonable speed? Is it necessary? Your call.

R. Around town where your forced to ride on sidewalks probably not, but say in a bike lane with an open road for 5-10 miles or so, I don't see why not? Assuming the bike feels safe at that speed or can handle that speed comfortably. The e-bike I listed has a 28mph speed in sport mode, probably a little more. I think its good to have a little extra power in certain circumstances just to get out of the way of other vehicles or passing, etc.

Many owners, like me, spent less than $1000 for a BBS02/battery and are happy.

R. How many watts is that motor, 750W? What brand/size battery did you choose and what is the range in miles? What other items necessary for the conversion did you purchase? Those extras add up.

If budget doesn't matter, better to have both the old bike and an e-bike. They are somewhat different. Your old bike is light and maneuverable, with less concerns. The ebikes tend to be heavier handling and heavier period.

R. If I buy the above listed bike then I will have both, plus a road bike, 3 bikes in an efficiency unit, getting tight! The e-bike I listed weighs 66lbs total, 55.4lbs for the bike, 10.6lbs for the battery. Has a HD rear rack and the 750W motor will come in handy when hauling 50lbs+ of groceries from a Walmart 10 miles away and back home. I don't have a vehicle and it gets strenuous for a 72 year old trying to pump a 45lb bike plus another 40-50lbs of groceries stuffed into my side bags 20 miles and up and over two Interstate overpasses! So you can understand my need for an e-bike.

Moving to a fatbike is quite a change. Mine is a low end steel frame bike that I converted to electric. I liken it to owning a Hummer in the suburbs. It draws attention. It's a ponderous machine and of little use on pavement. Knobby tires sound like a squadron of bees. I switched to smooth tires, but they seem a little squirrrely on corners, It's still fun. I rode in snow twice. Enough of that, One of these days I'll get it on a beach. It's gone as fast as my mid drive, but my preferred speed is lumbering along at 12 mph.

R. I believe an e-bike would be a whole new & different experience for the better for me. Your fat bike being steel must be heavy. I had a 4x4 w/knobby tires was louder than regular tires, but not as bad as some 4 wheeler knobby tires you can hear coming from a distance. The tires on the bike I listed I would say are conservative in the knobby department. But I think they would provide a cushioning effect along with the air front suspension will smooth out the ride some, especially when hauling groceries.

If I don't like the tires I can always switch them out to smoother rolling 3.5" tires designed for better traction on pavement. I lumber along at around 11-13mph on my Hybrid, if the wind is in my face, whole different story and I struggle to maintain 9-11mph. Sometimes when the wind is really strong, I might as well just walk my bike until I change directions. It doesn't matter how light your bike is or how much you paid for it, if the wind is really strong, at least for me at my age you might as well just walk your bike. Hey look at that guy walking his $10,000 bike, lol. Strong wind is a bikers worst enemy/nightmare!
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Old 07-28-18, 05:00 PM
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My perspective comes from having bought a pre-built rear hub bike (Magnum Peak), and then converting a bike I already own (Trek DS 8.4). I bought the Luna BBSHD mid kit with a 48v 13.5 AH battery...it was under $1500 shipped.

While the Magnum Peak is nice, I LOVE the way the Trek rides. I toned down the power some and it's as smooth as silk. For me, the knowledge of what it took to build the bike (it really was easy even though I'm not a bike mechanic) and the ability to reprogram the performance anytime make the Trek build even better. If I had built the Trek first, I'd never have bought the Peak. I've ridden the Trek over 1600 miles since I converted it in late April! I have 850 miles on the Peak, though it's a month older -- most of those miles came before I converted the Trek.

A few notes that may be of interest:
1) If you still like your current bike, you know you'll like the ride after you convert it.
2) You can probably go with somewhat wider tires if you want to. My Trek had 700c/38s, and I've fitted 29/2.2 Serfas MTBs (on the same rims).
3) You can also look at batteries from somewhere else. I decided I wanted more battery power, so I bought another Shark-sized battery on Alibaba -- 17AH for $392 delivered. I know you have to be careful buying stuff from China, but if you look closely, you can buy exactly the same product that you find here and save $150 or so. (My favorite ride is 43 miles with a 1600 ft elevation gain in the middle. I usually average around 18 mph. That uses about 60% of my 17AH battery.)
4) I had never heard of jack nuts, but they're the cat's meow for installing a connection on your frame for the battery mount (unless you're wanting to hang it in a bag or put it on a rack or something).

One last note -- whichever way you go, you'll love your e-bike! I used to think a 20-mile ride was about all I wanted to do...now if I ride less than 40 miles, I feel like I'm not done...you know, like playing 9 holes of golf, or bowling one game.
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Old 07-28-18, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by adcockj View Post
My perspective comes from having bought a pre-built rear hub bike (Magnum Peak), and then converting a bike I already own (Trek DS 8.4). I bought the Luna BBSHD mid kit with a 48v 13.5 AH battery...it was under $1500 shipped.

While the Magnum Peak is nice, I LOVE the way the Trek rides. I toned down the power some and it's as smooth as silk. For me, the knowledge of what it took to build the bike (it really was easy even though I'm not a bike mechanic) and the ability to reprogram the performance anytime make the Trek build even better. If I had built the Trek first, I'd never have bought the Peak. I've ridden the Trek over 1600 miles since I converted it in late April! I have 850 miles on the Peak, though it's a month older -- most of those miles came before I converted the Trek.

A few notes that may be of interest:
1) If you still like your current bike, you know you'll like the ride after you convert it.
2) You can probably go with somewhat wider tires if you want to. My Trek had 700c/38s, and I've fitted 29/2.2 Serfas MTBs (on the same rims).
3) You can also look at batteries from somewhere else. I decided I wanted more battery power, so I bought another Shark-sized battery on Alibaba -- 17AH for $392 delivered. I know you have to be careful buying stuff from China, but if you look closely, you can buy exactly the same product that you find here and save $150 or so. (My favorite ride is 43 miles with a 1600 ft elevation gain in the middle. I usually average around 18 mph. That uses about 60% of my 17AH battery.)
4) I had never heard of jack nuts, but they're the cat's meow for installing a connection on your frame for the battery mount (unless you're wanting to hang it in a bag or put it on a rack or something).

One last note -- whichever way you go, you'll love your e-bike! I used to think a 20-mile ride was about all I wanted to do...now if I ride less than 40 miles, I feel like I'm not done...you know, like playing 9 holes of golf, or bowling one game.
R. Thanks, adcockj: The Magnum Peak looks like a decent bike with quality parts.

I already own (Trek DS 8.4). I bought the Luna BBSHD mid kit with a 48v 13.5 AH battery...it was under $1500 shipped.
R. How much did you spend on other parts to finish the conversion?

If I had built the Trek first, I'd never have bought the Peak.
R. Understand, there's more power in the BBSHD. They say the mid-drives ride more like a natural bike, than a rear hub drive. Do you like the mid-drive ride better than the rear hub drive? I might be saying the same thing if I ever convert my Hybrid to a mid-drive, time will tell?

1) If you still like your current bike, you know you'll like the ride after you convert it.
R. I'm sure I would!

2) You can probably go with somewhat wider tires if you want to.
R. My Hybrid originally came with 700 x 38 tires. When the tires wore out, I switched to Vittoria Hyper tires 700x 32, with Kevlar 3D compound. Only had a few flats, one was a sharp drywall screw. Those tires are still on my bike. Expensive, but worth it.

3) You can also look at batteries from somewhere else. I decided I wanted more battery power, so I bought another Shark-sized battery on Alibaba -- 17AH for $392 delivered. I know you have to be careful buying stuff from China, but if you look closely, you can buy exactly the same product that you find here and save $150 or so. (My favorite ride is 43 miles with a 1600 ft elevation gain in the middle. I usually average around 18 mph. That uses about 60% of my 17AH battery.)
R. Batteries are just as important as the motor if you want more power and distance. They are expensive tho and shipping from China can be costly. A 52v battery can cost you $600-$1,000. If you wanted to do a Century you would likely need two batteries or do an overnight camping thing charging your battery for the return trip.

4) I had never heard of jack nuts, but they're the cat's meow for installing a connection on your frame for the battery mount (unless you're wanting to hang it in a bag or put it on a rack or something).

R. I never heard of Jack Nuts either? So I looked it up and here's a brief video of what Jack Nuts are: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...url=https%3A%2 %2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DhtW_dQ_fhxk&usg=AOvVaw0-rr3oV4COb3RDUzJusQxh

Not to be confused with Blue Nuts or Blue Balls? 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Tvvk4II6bV5UoYHcmmHF10dzGC2gC8TmKRAhhuBjfb/AKpKGeOJjLNbrodjHG7amZx1DEYNe1KpXSmiH1QxXRknhSS2fCuQdT79CR2/rVpCYLi2WSzmmjQxbLJsVI6j2FSpSt09STVIB8uWtVZliKog9C4ILexxmh27ph0SNpLiQgHK5UeNgO33qVK396FT+Q5Os7COKaBQ oQ4A9KjNSpUqmqYUk+tH/9kA[/img] Lol.

One last note -- whichever way you go, you'll love your e-bike! I used to think a 20-mile ride was about all I wanted to do...now if I ride less than 40 miles, I feel like I'm not done...you know, like playing 9 holes of golf, or bowling one game.

R. I'm sure I will, at least I hope so! Yea, going on a longer trip 50-100 miles takes some extra battery power for sure! That's why I mentioned the 52-72v batteries, they might get you 70-80 miles, but I think a 2nd battery might be required for 100 miles. There's a lightweight 52v battery I think its called the Mighty Mini or something similar? But it has low Ah (Amp hours), so only good for short rides. But might be good as a backup/extender on long trips.

Its very time consuming doing research looking at all the e-bikes and conversion kits available on the market. Gaining knowledge of how to do a conversion, tools & parts required to complete the conversion process. I was getting to the point of info overload and my head was spinning. So this afternoon I said F-it and ordered the bike I linked in my OP. Only problem was the color I wanted was out of stock! So who knows how long before they reorder more bikes from whatever Asian country the bikes were manufactured in?
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Old 07-28-18, 09:42 PM
  #10  
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Not sure how all the gibberish got included in my above post? The pic link I posted of a monkey with blue balls must have been F'ed up or something?, sorry? There was no edit button to erase the gibberish, so.....?
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Old 07-28-18, 09:45 PM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Florida, being flattish.. you don't need more than a hub motor , but all the design action is in Mid drives..

Out here it's the opposite .. Mid Drive conversions add $1600 to a MTB cost.
Starting at 350w, .... more money .. 1kw motor gets you to the top of the hill quickly.....
R. Thanks fietsbob for replying. Facts.
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Old 07-28-18, 09:51 PM
  #12  
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Realistically it is not practical to sustain 30+ mph on an ebike without a proper suspension system. Your interest in high power stuff does not go with your stated desires for the bike (Wal-mart grocery run).

This bike fits your grocery run perfectly: https://www.radpowerbikes.com/produc...=5032655749151

Regarding speed - in most places there are laws on the books prohibiting riding ebikes on sidewalks, and most bike trails have a 15mph speed limit - enforcement is usually non-existent......

My 36V 500W front hub ($150- from Amazon) converted 1992 Trek 950 with me on it (400-450 lbs GVW) will go 26-29mph (depending on battery charge level) with no pedalling, for more than 10 miles (flat out) on a 468Wh (13Ah) battery ($300- from Amazon). Going a bit less than flat out (say 20 mph) and adding a little pedalling will get it past 20 miles easily.

A healthy non-professional cyclist in anaerobic sprint mode (a couple minutes at most) will put out 500W to 1000W. In aerobic mode 200-350W range.

Also note that standard bike tires are not designed for 30+ mph, a blowout at speed will result in a hospital stay if you are lucky. Make sure you get tires rated for the speed and weight you are carry. My 950 has Schwalbe Big Ben 50-559 tires.

On heavy e-bikes, rear spoke failure is common due to the lack of compliance, the shock loads the spokes are amplified by higher speeds. Larger tires mitigate this somewhat, suspension more so.
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Old 07-28-18, 09:56 PM
  #13  
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Originally Posted by sumbikerguy123 View Post
Not sure how all the gibberish got included in my above post? The pic link I posted of a monkey with blue balls must have been F'ed up or something?, sorry? There was no edit button to erase the gibberish, so.....?
There is an EDIT button at the bottom of your own (no one else's) posts.

Range is Wh (Watt-Hours = Volts x Amp-Hours). Amp-Hours only tell part of the story.
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Old 07-28-18, 10:26 PM
  #14  
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[QUOTE=2old;20474573]"Stretching" the rear triangle is, for example, putting a rear hub with 140 mm width into rear dropouts with 130 mm width; you're forcing the dropouts apart to accommodate the axle.


R. I was speaking of the triangle under the top tube where you would most likely place a e-battery. Okay, see what you are referring to now. They call/refer to the rear dropout area as a triangle?


As DW said 35 or so mph with a BBSHD, 30 with a BBS02 (that's what mine achieved with a 46 tooth front chainring and 11 rear cog AIR). My BBS02 with a 52V, 6 a-h battery goes at least 20 miles off road since I don't use the motor about half the time. However, as he stated, there seem to be problems with the systems now**********


R. Yea first time I heard of any problems with the mid-drives?


Since weight isn't a consideration, you could consider a direct drive rear hub system. A 1000w, 48V YESCOM kit (26") will go 33+ mph on a flat road with a 52V battery. I put together a system for an MTB for about $600 (motor kit $200; battery and charger <$400), but its range is only 12-15 miles.


R. I haven't looked at and only heard of a direct drive system once before, your the 2nd one I've heard mention a direct drive. I'll check it out tho. I presume the (26") you mentioned is the size of a bike tire kit? The tires on my Hybrid are 700cc. Motor seems cheap, but the range is very limited, making it almost impracticable?


BTW, my LeBS was selling 2017 Haibikes with a Yamaha mid-drive for $999 at the end of last year because Haibike had excess inventory.


R. But how many watts? And the size of the battery?


Look at the tutorials on ebikesca for more information.


R. Okay thanks I will. But as stated in one of my previous posts today I did order the bike this afternoon I had listed in my OP. My head was OD'ing from info overload!
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Old 07-28-18, 11:37 PM
  #15  
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You bought the Juiced fat bike? Well,you should have some fun with it. It's a lot of swagger..
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Old 07-29-18, 12:18 AM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by nfmisso View Post
Realistically it is not practical to sustain 30+ mph on an ebike without a proper suspension system. Your interest in high power stuff does not go with your stated desires for the bike (Wal-mart grocery run).

This bike fits your grocery run perfectly: https://www.radpowerbikes.com/produc...=5032655749151

Regarding speed - in most places there are laws on the books prohibiting riding ebikes on sidewalks, and most bike trails have a 15mph speed limit - enforcement is usually non-existent......

My 36V 500W front hub ($150- from Amazon) converted 1992 Trek 950 with me on it (400-450 lbs GVW) will go 26-29mph (depending on battery charge level) with no pedalling, for more than 10 miles (flat out) on a 468Wh (13Ah) battery ($300- from Amazon). Going a bit less than flat out (say 20 mph) and adding a little pedalling will get it past 20 miles easily.

A healthy non-professional cyclist in anaerobic sprint mode (a couple minutes at most) will put out 500W to 1000W. In aerobic mode 200-350W range.

Also note that standard bike tires are not designed for 30+ mph, a blowout at speed will result in a hospital stay if you are lucky. Make sure you get tires rated for the speed and weight you are carry. My 950 has Schwalbe Big Ben 50-559 tires.

On heavy e-bikes, rear spoke failure is common due to the lack of compliance, the shock loads the spokes are amplified by higher speeds. Larger tires mitigate this somewhat, suspension more so.
[QUOTE=nfmisso;20475402]Realistically it is not practical to sustain 30+ mph on an ebike without a proper suspension system. Your interest in high power stuff does not go with your stated desires for the bike (Wal-mart grocery run).

R. Thanks for replying Nigel. Yes and no. Did I say I wanted to go 30+ all the time? When its necessary its okay. I see nothing wrong with going 30mph for 5-10 mile stretches if the bike and road allows you to do that. I've never owned an e-bike before or done a conversion, but if I put a 1500W motor in my Hybrid I would look into the appropriate tires to fit the motor and additional speed. I've have gone over 35mph several times on my Hybrid going down a decline with no problems. I have good tires on my bike, so not too worried about it. On the e-bike I purchased today it has the appropriate tires and suspension, etc.

What do you consider a proper e-bike suspension system? My hybrid doesn't have a suspension if that's what you are referring to, it seems? The e-bike I purchased today has a suspension tho.

Is 750W considered high power in your mind? Its not only making grocery runs to Walmart 20 miles round trip up and over overpasses, it might be a long distance weekend ride 50-100 miles once in awhile. The Rad bike you linked to below has a 750W motor, so ...?

This bike fits your grocery run perfectly: https://www.radpowerbikes.com/produc...=5032655749151

R. Yes it does, where were you two weeks or two hours ago? Looks like a station wagon, lol, certainly fits the grocery getter category. Good price also. Its a direct drive bike, not familiar with this type of motor setup? Again, where were you earlier? As I already purchased a bike this afternoon. This thing is 79" in length, about a foot longer than my Hybrid. I live in a efficiency unit be kind of tight getting it in there?

Regarding speed - in most places there are laws on the books prohibiting riding ebikes on sidewalks, and most bike trails have a 15mph speed limit - enforcement is usually non-existent......

R. Okay, but is an e-bike also considered a regular bike since it has pedals? What, if I pedal an e-bike on the sidewalk its illegal? But if I pedal a bicycle on the same sidewalk its legit? I'll take my chances? Could say the same about bicycles, some sidewalks don't allow bicycles?

My 36V 500W front hub ($150- from Amazon) converted 1992 Trek 950 with me on it (400-450 lbs GVW) will go 26-29mph (depending on battery charge level) with no pedalling, for more than 10 miles (flat out) on a 468Wh (13Ah) battery ($300- from Amazon). Going a bit less than flat out (say 20 mph) and adding a little pedalling will get it past 20 miles easily.

R. You and your bike weighs 400-450lbs? Damn son? I thought you were concerned about speed and having the correct suspension? In your 1st paragraph you said: "Realistically it is not practical to sustain 30+ mph on an ebike without a proper suspension system." Yet your Trek bike has no suspension at all, except the tires, lol?

A healthy non-professional cyclist in anaerobic sprint mode (a couple minutes at most) will put out 500W to 1000W. In aerobic mode 200-350W range.

R. Nice to know, thanks.

Also note that standard bike tires are not designed for 30+ mph, a blowout at speed will result in a hospital stay if you are lucky. Make sure you get tires rated for the speed and weight you are carry. My 950 has Schwalbe Big Ben 50-559 tires.

R. Okey-dokey. Dumping a bike at 30+mph can't be much fun!

On heavy e-bikes, rear spoke failure is common due to the lack of compliance, the shock loads the spokes are amplified by higher speeds. Larger tires mitigate this somewhat, suspension more so.

R. Thanks again for the info mate.

Last edited by sumbikerguy123; 07-29-18 at 01:01 AM.
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Old 07-29-18, 12:51 AM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by Doc_Wui View Post
You bought the Juiced fat bike? Well,you should have some fun with it. It's a lot of swagger..

R. Yep, got too much info overload, so I pulled the trigger. Has all the extras not found on other fat bikes, ie; fenders, rear rack, cruise control, lol, A/C, etc. GPS tracking if your bike is stolen, air suspension front fork, 1050 Lum front headlights, rear tail light, hydraulic disk brakes, 52V battery, 21Ah, 8amp battery charger, 9 speed cassette, walk function, etc., etc. Oh, has a 52t front sprocket !


Rad bikes has a decent looking Rad Rover fat bike for $1499.00. It doesn't have all the extras the Rip Current S has, but with the cheaper price I'm sure you could purchase some of the extras to get a decent looking/performing bike.
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Old 07-29-18, 12:56 AM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by nfmisso View Post
There is an EDIT button at the bottom of your own (no one else's) posts.

Range is Wh (Watt-Hours = Volts x Amp-Hours). Amp-Hours only tell part of the story.
R. Thanks Nigel. I didn't see any edit button after I posted? IDK why? And there is no edit button there now?

Last edited by sumbikerguy123; 07-29-18 at 01:05 AM.
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Old 07-29-18, 10:22 AM
  #19  
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To answer your questions about my post:

1. Here's what I bought for my BBSHD installation:
Bottom Bracket Size: 68-73mm (Standard)
Luna DPC-18 Full Color Display $55.00
Bafang BBSxx Universal Thumb Throttle
Hydraulic Brake Sensors: Bafang Hydraulic and Disc Brake Sensors E-Brake $15.00
GearSensor for Derailers and Internal Geared Hubs $45.00
48v Shark 13.5ah GA $459.95
Luna Wrench $19.00
Luna Aluminum Chain Ring Adapter With 42T Sprocket $40.00
I also bought the programming cable $20.00
I already had a Luna 5-amp charger, so I didn't need that.
Very little additional cost: a few jack nuts and a handful of zip ties.
Then, I later bought a bigger 48V 17AH battery: $392 delivered.

2. I do like the mid drive better than the hub drive. I can't say that it's all due to it being mid, because it's a BBSHD mid vs a 500W hub motor.l However, being able to get maximum power at very low speeds (e.g., steep hills) by shifting down into low gears makes a very noticeable difference.
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Old 07-29-18, 11:27 AM
  #20  
sumbikerguy123
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Originally Posted by adcockj View Post
To answer your questions about my post:

1. Here's what I bought for my BBSHD installation:
Bottom Bracket Size: 68-73mm (Standard)
Luna DPC-18 Full Color Display $55.00
Bafang BBSxx Universal Thumb Throttle
Hydraulic Brake Sensors: Bafang Hydraulic and Disc Brake Sensors E-Brake $15.00
GearSensor for Derailers and Internal Geared Hubs $45.00
48v Shark 13.5ah GA $459.95
Luna Wrench $19.00
Luna Aluminum Chain Ring Adapter With 42T Sprocket $40.00
I also bought the programming cable $20.00
I already had a Luna 5-amp charger, so I didn't need that.
Very little additional cost: a few jack nuts and a handful of zip ties.
Then, I later bought a bigger 48V 17AH battery: $392 delivered.

2. I do like the mid drive better than the hub drive. I can't say that it's all due to it being mid, because it's a BBSHD mid vs a 500W hub motor.l However, being able to get maximum power at very low speeds (e.g., steep hills) by shifting down into low gears makes a very noticeable difference.
R. Thanks adcockj. Looks like you spent approximately $1720 or so to complete the conversion.
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Old 07-29-18, 11:51 AM
  #21  
BobG
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Originally Posted by sumbikerguy123 View Post
R. Thanks Nigel. I didn't see any edit button after I posted? IDK why? And there is no edit button there now?
Lower right corner at any of your previous posts. Edit button will disappear when you log out...
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Old 07-29-18, 12:01 PM
  #22  
sumbikerguy123
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Originally Posted by BobG View Post
Lower right corner at any of your previous posts. Edit button will disappear when you log out...
Thanks Bob. When I'm logged in the edit button doesn't show?
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Old 07-29-18, 12:36 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by sumbikerguy123 View Post
Thanks Bob. When I'm logged in the edit button doesn't show?
No, just the opposite. When you're logged in edit button shows at your previous posts. If you're logged in now scroll up to any of your previous posts above and you'll see the edit button. When you sign out it will go away. That's just a pasted screen shot at my example post above

If you want to delete the mumbo-jumbo from that post above just hit edit button and delete just that part of the post and leave the rest.

Last edited by BobG; 07-29-18 at 12:40 PM.
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Old 07-29-18, 01:43 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by sumbikerguy123 View Post
R. Thanks adcockj. Looks like you spent approximately $1720 or so to complete the conversion.
That's correct, if you include the price of both batteries. I didn't need the second one for the conversion -- I just wanted longer range. Now I have 30.5AH between the two batteries. I could easily go 100+ miles on a level road using medium pedal assist at 16 - 18 mph (I'm retired with 3 stents so I don't overdo it...I'm just happy to be out there!).
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Old 07-29-18, 04:11 PM
  #25  
sumbikerguy123
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Originally Posted by BobG View Post
No, just the opposite. When you're logged in edit button shows at your previous posts. If you're logged in now scroll up to any of your previous posts above and you'll see the edit button. When you sign out it will go away. That's just a pasted screen shot at my example post above

If you want to delete the mumbo-jumbo from that post above just hit edit button and delete just that part of the post and leave the rest.
R.
Originally Posted by BobG View Post
No, just the opposite. When you're logged in edit button shows at your previous posts. If you're logged in now scroll up to any of your previous posts above and you'll see the edit button. When you sign out it will go away. That's just a pasted screen shot at my example post above

If you want to delete the mumbo-jumbo from that post above just hit edit button and delete just that part of the post and leave the rest.
R. Sorry, my bad, I should have been more specific in my last post/reply. I replied previously: "Thanks Bob. When I'm logged in the edit button doesn't show?" I should have specified the edit button didn't show for that post/reply only. Otherwise the edit button shows normally on my posts/replies when I'm signed in.

Maybe my computer was overheating or something as it had been on most of the day. It appears you have a limited amount of time to make a post, not sure how much time that is? But if you exceed that amount of time the site auto signs you out. Then when you finalize your post/reply and go to submit it you can't because you exceeded the time limit and the site requires you to refresh the page and sign back in. Once you sign back in whatever you typed is gone, sometimes the "Restore Auto-Saved Content" works, sometimes it doesn't. It only saves content within whatever the time limit is for your session?

But there is no time limit clock showing when you are typing, so you don't know when the "Auto-Saved Content" will be auto shut off? So you could type say as example 30 lines, but the "Restore Auto-Saved Content" session could have auto shutoff at 20 lines, but you have no clue it does this while you are typing?

Say you got a call half way through your reply/post and 10 minutes later you come back to your post. You likely will have to refresh the page, sign back in and start all over again if you can't Restore your previous content. And that sucks! Or unless you copy what you have already typed, which is what I usually do if I have to leave the computer for awhile OR before posting, because I have no clue of knowing if or when my session has timed out or not?

That's what I did yesterday and what happened with the gibberish in that one post. My session had timed out and I was required to refresh the page and sign back in. But after signing back in I couldn't auto-restore my previous content. So I tried pasting what I had copied of my whole post, but I kept getting a message that said something to the effect You can't post because you have since signed back in-please refresh the page and sign back in? I was like WTF is going on? I tried refreshing the page and signing back in several times, but I kept getting the same message?

Somehow I managed to paste my previous content and it came out all F'ed up in that one post w/the gibberish and some of the content you couldn't read as the ends of the sentences where missing because somehow the font got to big and overlapped the page? WTF?

I was going to explain this yesterday, but as you can see it gets a bit complicated and too long and who wants to read long WTF kind of explanations, lol.

I think the site should have a time session clock ticking so the forum member typing a post/reply can see how much time he/she has left to finish his/her post session. That way you won't wind up with unreadable posts like that one post I posted yesterday with the gibberish in it. And that's why I always copy my posts before I hit the submit button, because you never now when or if your session has timed out or not OR if the auto-restore button will save/restore your prior content for you?

Maybe a Mod could reply to this or tell us how much time we have to complete a session/post/reply?
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