bburrito

I found this kit on Ebay for $299. What do you guys think? It seems like it has everything I would need except for batteries. If its not a good deal what would you reccomend or why is it not a good deal?

I just scored a Workman Dual Tandem which I would like to have converted over to electric for longer trips for groceries and maybe even commuting to work. The idea being to use the cars less for every day tasks.

Im also confused about batteries. I went to ElitePowerSystems.com and found several battery packs that were in the $200-300 range. Do I need to buy 4 of these to power this 48v motor?

SoCal Commute

I'm not that familiar with hub kits since I ruled them out early in my ebike research but for $100 more you could get a 500W cyclone kit from taiwan. I've had mine for 2 weeks and love it. To answer you question about the batteries, yes you would need 4 of those connected in series to get 48v. If you are feeling adventurous you could buy 10 of these thundersky packs and wire them together for a cyclone kit, it would take 20 of those same packs for the hub motor you listed. To take the guesswork out of my battery though, I bought a 24v 20ah battery from pingbattery.com to go with my cyclone, it cost about $430 including shipping. Total cost of my kit was $840 including shipping, that doesn't include any of the add ons and mods I did to my bike. If you want to see my build to know what to expect visit my blog on the build at https://cyclone-ebikedocumentary.blogspot.com/

Pros and cons of a hub motor:
1. you must have a steel fork or the wheel will break loose, aluminum forks are cast and can not handle the torque.
2. you only get one speed with the low end models that don't have gearing.
3. the motor you indicated doesn't appear to have a freewheeling motor so when you run out of battery you will have to fight the motor when you pedal
4. hub motors do have the benefit of easier overall install over other types of motors

Advantages of a non hub cyclone type motor:
1. the motor runs through your rear wheel gears so you get good speed with the ability to climb hills as well
2. you can change gears so your motor is always running at near peak efficiency, makes your battery last longer on the ride
3. because you run through the gears a lower wattage of motor will give the same results as a higher wattage hub motor. (I have seen videos of people using 1000W hub motors to achieve the same results I get)

Disadvantages:
1. more complex install, be prepared to sweat a little
2. the bike has a motor attached that looks like a motor so anyone that sees the bike will know it is electric.

crimsonsnake0

hi i have similar kit to this one also from ebay hong kong. great kit and reliable. for batterys i suggest min of 15ah. these are also available on ebay for about £30 each. go for the front wheel kit and fit steel forks and tighten wheel very securly. cheers crimsonsnake

bburrito

So I am looking on Ebay and I am finding SLA batteries for under $30 each shipped. Is that right? Why spend $1200 for LifePO batteries when you can spend 10% of that for SLA batteries? Yeah, they might be heavier and bulkier, but for a large 2 passenger tricycle, space isnt exactly at a minimum.





https://cgi.ebay.com/Lot-Two-12v-12Ah...item2a02d74653

How about these? 12v 17amp SLA batteries:
https://cgi.ebay.com/12v-12Ah-12-Volt...item23050522da

morph999 

you mean elitepowersolutions.com? Yeah, I bought a 36v20ah pack from them and am pretty happy with it so far. I don't even use a BMS with it.

If you don't want to use a BMS, you need to do these things:
1) make sure you buy enough capacity ...probably 20 AH of lifepo4 or more
2) only use 50 - 55 % of the pack (this will still you get 18 miles or more on the pack...trust me)
3) get a charger that won't overcharge the pack and charge it in 12v packs....then get a couple individual 3.2v lifepo4 chargers from all-battery.com to top them off periodically to make sure they are all balance.....OR...just buy 12 individual chargers from all-battery.com or batteryspace.com..the 3.2v lifepo4 chargers with a cutoff of 3.65v or 3.8v will work...I use the 3.65v cutoff charger from all-battery.com...it's only 13.95.....as for the 12v charger, I use a 12v black and decker charger, it's intelligent so it will stop when the pack has had enough....I charge half the pack with the 12v charger then top it off with my individual 3.2v lifepo4 charger...works good this way
4) the packs from elitepowersolutions.com ...if you get the 20ah cells, will come with a top of on it to protect the cells from shorting out...what I did was cut off the corners of each top so I can easily take the top off without removing the wires each time. This way you can easily top off each individual cell without the pain of removing the wires. You can also check the cells voltage individually too easily.

As for the kit, you might be better off going with a kit from hightekbikes.com or something from ebikes.ca. I bought my kit from ebikes.ca . Ebikes.ca has a new 2805 Nine Continent motor that is super fast. It's about $200 for the hub motor and about $100 for the controller and they are well made, probably better made than the ebay.com crap.

morph999 

These are the 20AH cells you want. They come in 12v packs. So 12v x 3 packs = 36v which is about $384
https://elitepowersolutions.com/produ...products_id=74

You've have to wire it up yourself but it's not hard. I went to lowes and got about $15 worth of 10 gauge wire and some connectors from Radio Shack...you can also get the connectors at Lowes or Home Depot or Menards or any hardware store. Take the bolt from the battery with you to make sure the connector fits over the bolts. The connectors are called "Ring Terminals". I didn't even use a crimp gun, I just used some pliers with mine and it still holds up. Then I took all 3 12v packs and wrapped with duck tape so they wouldn't come apart while I was riding.

Stray8

Hey! Get seven people together (each ordering three) to get a volume discount!


.

SoCal Commute

You would need 4 of those to get 48v. I would hate to be the guy riding that bike when the batteries die and you have to pedal with 56 pounds of battery and fight that motor. I only have 30 extra pounds of weight including my kryptonite lock and it's a beast to pedal on anything other than flats and downhill. Even on the slightest incline you can feel the difference and I don't have to fight the motor when it's off.

Advantages of SLA batteries:
low initial cost

Disadvantages of SLA batteries:
heavy
only get around 500 charge cycles before they need replaced
steady decline in power as battery discharges
Memory effect if you don't charge them right

Advantages of LiFePo batteries
no memory effect
low weight
between 2000-3000 charging cycles
power remains constant until the battery is nearly depleted

morph999 

why buy Lifepo4? Because you get crazy distance out of them. I get like 18 miles out of 10 AH in Lifepo4. I used to have 60v9ah of SLA and well, technically shouldn't I get almost 18 miles out of it since it's 9 AH? Well, I could barely get 3 miles out of it.

nwmtnbkr

If you don't want to spend the money for LIFEPO4s now, you could build a battery pack out of NIMH or NICAD batteries with high C-ratings. (It's generally much cheaper to buy these cells than individual LIFEPO4 cells. Check out all-battery.com, they often have bulk sales.) NIMH and NICAD batteries weigh less than SLAs and have more charging cycles, if handled properly. You have to realize that no battery can survive long without proper handling. You don't want to over discharge them (even SLAs) and you must recharge frequently (as soon as you've used them with SLAs). Battery technology is the most disappointing feature of any EV system. The technology still lags behind. Yes, LIFEPO4 is safer than LiPOLY and seems better suited for EVs since even traditional LiION with Magnesium Oxide or Cobalt can catch fire or explode if mishandled, but they have issues, too. If you want a 48V SLA pack, then you should consider towing a trailer and placing them in it. Good luck.

bburrito

When you guys say that the SLA batteries need to be charged after use, if I ride 3 miles to work and then work for 8 hours and then go 3 miles back before putting it on the charger... is that 8 hours going to hurt the battery?

nwmtnbkr

It would be best to recharge at work rather than wait until you get home. SLA, in addition to being very heavy, have the shortest life span of batteries used for EV applications. Here's their basic description from batteryuniversity.com:
The sealed lead-acid battery is designed with a low over-voltage potential to prohibit the battery from reaching its gas-generating state during charge. This prevents water depletion of the sealed system. Consequently, these batteries will never get fully charged and some sulfation will develop over time.

Here are their guidelines for handling SLAs.

Simple Guidelines

* Always store lead-acid in a charged condition. Never allow the open cell voltage to drop much below 2.10V. Apply a topping charge every six months or when recommended.
* Avoid repeated deep discharges. Charge more often. Use a larger battery to reduce the depth of discharge.
* Prevent sulfation and grid corrosion by choosing the correct charge and float voltages. If possible, allow a fully saturated charge of 14h.
* To reverse sulfation, raise the charge voltage above 2.40V/cell for a few hours.
* Avoid operating lead-acid at elevated ambient temperatures.

www.batteryuniversity.com

BroadwayJoe

You got a Conhismotor for sale there. They're pretty good (I have a 48V 1000W 20" wheel version) but you can order directly through Conhismotor.com for the same money after shipping. For a few more bucks you can buy the same motor/controller assembly from https://www.e-bikekit.com/ and you'll get a nice torque arm and many other refinements that are hard to know about until you assemble and ride for a while.

I didn't know about https://www.e-bikekit.com/ until after I purchased mine directly from Conhismotor. If I had known what I know now, I would have just dealt with those guys in New Jersey.

SLA is okay for testing and short distances but it really sucks compared to battery chemistry from this century.

Oh, I'm not into chain drive systems unless you need maximum hill climbing capability. They're noisy and chains need oil = messy. My C9 (Conhismotor) climbs most hills just fine and it's nearly silent, no maintenance and no mess.

SoCal Commute

Meh, the cyclone is a mid-drive motor so the only chain I have to oil is the one I normally would. I do agree that if you want complete silent operation chain drive isn't for you but I like being able to go 30mph with a 24V battery.

nwmtnbkr

The myth that all hub motors are silent is just that, a myth. All you have to do is watch you tube videos to realize that quite a few are extremely noisy. Then there's the issue of the care and pampering of those brushless models that have Hall Sensors that can develop issues in warm weather. All-in-all, I'm extremely happy with my non-hub motor; it's got great torque and I don't hear it because the sound of the wind drowns everything out. And I don't need to oil the chain constantly. For those who just don't want to believe that hub motors are noisy, here are some you tube videos.

SoCal Commute

Great point nwmtnbkr, my cyclone makes less noise than the the motor in that first vid. I can't go 45mph like it does but I'm perfectly content with max speed of 30mph. The second vid sounds just like my cyclone on startup but I don't get that high pitched whine when I reach higher speeds, that would drive me crazy since I am sensitive to specific frequencies. You are correct when you say that the sound of the wind drives out the sound of the motor, most of the time when I'm riding I don't even notice the motor. That can be a bad thing too since I don't have my cyclometer mounted up yet and can only gauge my motor rpm by sound

BroadwayJoe

I was NOT considering overvolted X5 motors in my statement and I have no personal experience with them. I thought this thread was basically asking about the C9 or Conhismotor and I do operate that motor.

How many of you have direct experience with the C9? Nearly silent - nothing like those vids. Which btw - the lower one - buzzing noise is actually the camera mic vibrating against something that it's mounted too IMO.

There are practically silent chain systems such as the Panasonic of which I'm personally familiar. But my neighbor rides a rear wheel mounted Currie and I can hear that churning thing coming for blocks. If you have serious hills, you need to consider chain drive but I wouldn't go there unless absolutely necessary.

My years of experience with the ESR750 1:5 chain sprocket combination and 300k miles of motorcycle experience have taught me that I don't want anything to do with chain drives.

It's my opinion they're inferior 100+ year old technology and I think there's better ways to go if you want a simple, clean, quiet commuting machine. Attack me or my comments if you must but I speak the truth as I see it from probably a LOT more experience with this stuff than many of you who wish to continually attack me will ever have.

nwmtnbkr

Joe,

I posted the you tube videos because I find it funny that so many who criticize the use of non-hub motors point to how quiet hub motors are compared to non-hub motors. However, when you watch the videos that many proud e-bike owners with hub motors have posted, you hear lots of motor noise. There are some videos of e-bikes with 9 C motors on you tube. I would agree that they are quieter, but they're certainly not silent. You can hear them, especially on acceleration. Personally, a non-hub motor is best for the area I live in--I need lots of torque for the mountains here. I'm glad you're happy with your hub motor. I love my non-hub motor. Enjoy and ride safely.

Here are a couple of videos of e-bikes with 9 C motors.

Kevin Harvey

LiFepo4 batteries are the only way to go but must have BMS & that BMS must be capable of continious current for the motor under load I buy from site BMSBatteries China https://www.bmsbattery.com/get the big BMS make up battery myself in 2 tubes that will fit any mountain bike its cost money to learn but this with either 500w cyclone or 1200w the only way to go



----I now have Nu Vinci What a machine, streets, cars,traffic lights , & intersections so quick & safe as ones mind is not thinking at all on gears.

Jimmydean358

Hello to all. I'm new to e bikes.
I have been ALL OVER THE INTERNET looking for a good Battery+E bike kit. What I have Learned.
So many kits to choose from e bay {nope not buying from e bay** Not on some like this costing this much don't want to take the chance of getting a bad kit. Now I know just about 80%to90% of ALL e bikes are made in china. What isn't now days. Now this is what I'm looking into for the kit this here https://www.eco-wheelz.com/catalog/ebike-kit-geared-conversion-p-315.php?options={8**32{10**46{2**34 for a battery this here https://www.conhismotor.com/ProductShow.asp?id=281 tell me what you guys think about $ 860.00 US dollars total. another thing being the battery is in china do i have to pay customs or duty taxes on this ? thanks all for the help . I have learned a lot just reading the posts of other people. thank you. so much.

James in Michigan.

powell

membkr
You made very good point about no so silent hub motors
Popular perception is that DD hub motors are silent
I would never live with that high whine ,electric locomotive kind of noise
But you forgot or do not know that there are completely silent hub motors out there
USA designed and made hub motors like Eplus and legendary Tidal Force are virtually silent even under hard acceleration
Not only motor itself but how is controlled by electronics decide if hub motor is silent
Obviously cheap China brands are noisy ones

chi6er

here is my friends non hub motor test

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVN8A...layer_embedded

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_IOZ...hannel&list=UL

here is a 9c in action

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YS1UkcUalUI

Kevin Harvey

I'm a New Zealand cyclone fannatic , live on a small mountain & need the best for hills or towing, Had 450 ezip motor as midrive blew up that had hub 500 usless ,sold to guy in flat city, now my best is 36v 960w cyclone(tiawan) but got it as 650 with(650 no good), Br Paco's advice etc converted to the 960(best to get 36v 960)so not to have that trouble.
have 4 500w ones 2-1chainwheel & 2 -3chainwheel . They all good for grandkids but I'm a rich oldy. hope others lean frm my misakes .Make my own battery packs liFepo4 is cheap if u take into accout the time they will last but u must have right BMS.can't give link or pic as when i do lose my bldy message but its www.BMS etc china for battery & just purchased a nuvinci Both Tiawan cyclone & BMS guy good if u read site thougherly to get the right product.i even weld up for better crank chainwheel so chains on 3ch kit can't lock.

Kevin Harvey

U need hills to demonstate an E bike , If younger I'd do that without motor