HOLY MARKUP BATMAN ::::

https://cgi.ebay.com/Electric-Bike-Ki...item2a07e89219

now thats one hell of a profit margin !!!

Yeah... It's funny...
This $2700 "kit" is just like any other yet is 3x's the price.
Its a 36v lipo pack of only 10ah. (if that bike falls on the ground the batts may explode)

Their $2000 "kit" at least integrates the battery into the rear wheel hub.

There's an ass for every seat, and this kit is for those who want to say, "look at me! I have $2700 to waste on something I could have bought ANYWHERE else for 1/3 the price!"

looks like EMS is sellings its E+ kit only on eBay as well.
I know there are new people on this forum every month who didn't really read/heard much about ebikes.
E+ is improved version of legendary Tidal Force, USA-made bike famous for durability.
No

do you think the markup/ profit on that kit, for $2700..is at least $1000 profit ?

Dont get me wrong...I am assume that $2700 kit is gonna be better built then a $750 kit , of the same ratings, that come from a chinese manufacturer.....but I am one that does not always agree with the saying " you get what you pay for "

example :

I just did a experiment where I was able to get the price of a 48 volt/20 Ah lipo pack , that normally sells for around $600 , for one unit..down to a price near $400 for 10 units.... for the exact same packs.....this proves that the saying " you get what you pay for" is not always legit. the $2700 price tag on that kit , would mean a person could buy 4 kits off ebay , that have simliar voltage/wattage ratings....

I have a bit of knowledge on brushless motors, because I have been into R/C/ planes/ cars for over 10 years...it is true that there are certain brushless motors that have better efficiency then others , but I have found that in the R/C world... a brushless NAME brand MOTOR that may cost 2-3 times as much as a brushless off brand motor { with all other specs being simliar ** is usually not worth that extra cost because the performance factors do not merrit that extra cost for those of us who are just R/C hobbyists...Now, if one was a R/C proffesional, who attended races or competitions, then thats a different story.

I think what im trying to say, is that generally speaking , a brushless hub motor is not gonna be the mian component within these bike kits, that fails first...because these brushless motors are inhereintly efficient , and do not have alot of moving parts/ brushes/ contact points to wear out or break....

Now, if someone buys a brushless hub motor rated at 250 watts, when they really need one rated at 800 watts , then overstressing the brushless motor will mean more possibility of failure ..but thats not a fault of the brushless motor..it is a fault of the user not buying the proper equipment for their needs.

I remember years ago, when brushless R/C/ motors hit the market and lipos hit the market...the prices started out VERY high..but only in a few years, the prices came down very low, because of compeition in the market place. It is to the point now, where you can get a decent performing r/c brushless motor, for under $ 20....

I am convinced we will see the electric bike kit market continue to come down in price. If 20 Ah/ 48 volt lipos can be sold for around $400 today...then in about a year, I guess that same lipo pack will be around $ 300..and even at that price, the manufacturers will be making a hefty profit.

When I started in the ebike world 6 years ago, the technology was not as efficient, nor as expensive as it is today.

All thing being equal, I would say, years ago, you would have gotten what you paid for.
In today's world, not soo much.

Even only two years ago, I could buy a 36v 30ah for $300 including the shipping.
I could buy an electric kit for under $200.

NOW, that same setup would almost cost me twice as much.

REALLY ? ..you are claiming that you could get 36 volt/ 30 Ah lipo packs....6 years ago, cheaper then you can get today ? WOW...I find that amazing..

I realize there may be a market for a $2700 bike kit...for those who have the money and the need for the most rugged kits available....for my needs [ and most others** ...I dont think such a kit is feasable....many of us just want to experience the fun of ebiking..around or roads or trails....the $2700 kit reminds me of something that would be needed for ascending the hills in Afghanstain :**

I didn't say 6 years ago nor lipo.
Let me be more specific..
2 years ago I got a 36v 30ah LiFePo4 battery in an eBay auction for $310 shipped and I bought a 36v 350w motor kit for $200 shipped.

How about asking a question instead of trying to make it sound like I'm being decietful.

Oh, I just assumed you were talking about lipo packs, because that has been one of the main subjects I have been discussing. .....no harm intended on my part...

Everything I have witnesses in R/C hobby concerning lipos and brushless motors, has indictaed that the prices of these 2 items actually come down in price over time..and these 2 items seem to get more improved over time, as far as performance.

Yes... But you still can't beat the price per w/h on LiFePo4 from an eBay vendor because they add a BMS and Charger.
If you buy a battery that is way more powerful than you need, you don't have to worry about BMS problems..
As a matter of fact.. One o my builds was a 36v 100ah trike setup without the use of a bms.
If you never use anything close to 100 AH and know how to balance the cells yourself, there really is no need for a BMS.

depends what you use ebike for.
OCCASIONAL US3E IN SAMMER ONLY, replacement for car, riding in Canadian winter you need stuff which is reliable.
If you ride in 10 subzero you cannot stop to fasten loosened up connector or other crappy stuff like bad generic no name throttle.
USA manufacturing culture is light years above Chinese get rich fast manufacturung culture. You pay for well designed well executed smooth, no shudder, no whine like turbine , no jerking one of the best i98f no the best motor /controller in the world which LASTS, made quality metal , CNC machined with PRECISION.
Bottom line if you want reliable?
MC.

Can you clarify please? i98f controller? Every single controller I have seen, in kits anyway, has been Chinese manufacturer. Same with hub motors. What brands are you referring to for USA manufacturer, assembly, design?
Thanks.

e+ IS former Tidal Force which I got 18,050 km on my original CATEYE COMPUTER.
It is rock reliable, I ride rain , mkinus 15c MAX, you name it.
Controller is built into motor housing, brand is E+ one of the kind, not sold under any other name , t6hat's Chiunese spaciality to sell rebadged stuff.
After Wavecrest stopped making Tforce bike technology was sold to Europe but former engiineers in USA started their own company EMS which manufacture improved version of TF here in Washington state.
MC

These guys?:
https://epluselectricbike.com/buy-bik...tric-bike-kits

Their prices are way way above most US re-sellers of Chinese gear. I realize they are supposed to be US manufactured but that price is just too high to be competitive. Looking at the "Why E+" page the specs for range@speed seem to be well under what I would expect from other foreign kits.

Would be nice to see a competitive US company though. I don't see how with labor laws and wages being what they are in China.

perhaps for people who are planning to use their electric bike almost everyday , year round..in rain, snow, freezing temperatures, etc....a $ 2700 bike kit makes sense for them. ...

as far as the brushless hub motors are concerned...I would think many of the chinese brands are suitable for most ebikers.....there isnt many moving parts involved, to wear out in the brushless format....and if a person takes care of it , and doesnt constantly drive thru puddles of water or hammer the throttle at a dead stop, I would think most brushless hub motors would be reliable ..including chinese brands like Bafang , which can be purchased in a full kit with 20Ah / 48 volt lipo, for around $750 delivered.

for $2750 ....a person could purchase 3- 4 Bafang styled ekits....also, if a person is gonna be driving in rain , I would imagine there is some way to better seal up the chinese hub motors, to keep their internals dry.....like maybe using a all weather silicon sealant on any openings of the hub /wheel, etc...

I love the idea of using a electric bike to do errands , when the weather is nice..but I would not want to use a ebike when its snowng, raining or freezing temperatures outside.....it would be to uncomfortable and to dangerous IMHO...

I personally have had many brushless motors from china, and used them in my r/c planes/ cars ..over the past 10 years...and I never had one of those brushless motors malfunction or burn up..UNLESS..it was due to error or my part....

with the chinese brushless hub motors, I would imagine there are some reports of problems , but for the most part, they should be reliable if used properly. Perhaps after years of use, some of the magnets inside the hub may come loose, but that can be repaired.

sunnyday,exactely,
if you use it on sunny days, no rain, no below freezing temps it is much lighter use than mine.
I commute 330 days on my TF during a year, rain, freezing temperatures, BUT not after snowfalls..
I am not any elite, simple like stuff with quality, I bought Honda car not KIA - why?
KIA also do everything HONDA does, why did I buy HONDA?
It is obvvoius why.
30miles/hour is not bad believe me on 36V , it is not 48V you forget.
You buy E+ for reliability.
One detail: example , E+ uses Delphi connectors, weather sealed, they cost 2-3 times than cheap exposed connectors where you can see metal connectors exposed to elements.
No cheap throttle /with cheap 3 lights /here but rugged Delphi brand.
E+ does not cheat on their specification sheet, no exagerration.
I try different ebikes from Wallmart, Canadian Tire also, no comparison to E+.
E+ is not intended to compete with Chinese brands.
E+ is made in USA with labour laws, coffee breakes, health benefits and business which actually pay taxes,
in civilized world , only western manufacturers maybe have this in China.

mc

I bought an E+ Surly Big Dummy about 6 weeks ago and I'm very happy with it. I don't have any experience with anything else to compare it to.
https://epluselectricbike.com/buy-bikes-online/electric-cargo-bikes/e-surly-big-dummy
I figured if the bike without the electric is worth $2000 the E+ at $2950 is a bargain.
They do have a complete bike for under $2000.
https://epluselectricbike.com/buy-bik...50-watt-silver

MetalMan,
you are one lucky guy that you don't have experience with anything else,
broken spokes, loose connectors, blown up chargers and controllers, constantly loosening screws, whine like jet turbine from hub motor, jerking on acceleration no matter how gentle on throttle, etc., etc.
If you tried "others" you would have even more appreciation of civilized western technology in form of E+.
3000 dollars IS a bargain if you consider how long it will serve you with sweet silence ride.
MC