Oddly enough we discussed the methodology of using the then "new" HRM for training during a USCF coaching certification clinic "back when" w/ Ed Burke.
My HRM use as described in post #21 is a result of his work at the OTC decades ago.

Ed Burke was a mentor who is missed by the community today for his rigorous methodology and humor.

-Bandera

As far as I know they don't have auto LTHR detection for cycling. And apparently your running LTHR isn't necessarily the same as your cycling LTHR. I had a hard time accepting that for a while, I thought it should be the same for anything I do, it's the point where my body stops being able to process lactate quickly enough; because you use different muscle groups for different sports, you have different oxygen needs running and cycling, and different levels of LT production.

Anyway, this was a tangent. Max HR is really difficult to find, it's highly individual but doesn't really tell us anything important about a person's biology. Just doesn't make sense for HR zones. LT is easier to find, and very meaningful for exercise purposes. I agree, LTHR is ideal for zones.

The Garmin 520 (and all of the same gen. units, I assume) will auto-compute your LTHR if you tell it to. Has a little checkbox in the settings. I'm guessing it just takes the highest average HR for a 20 minute period. Veloviewer also shows it for every ride recorded (max avg. 20-min HR.)

I'm learning a lot. Thanks, folks, especially [MENTION=202940]Timothy[/MENTION]_h. Now I see the value in doing this, because I've never done it. So far, I use my intuition to know if I've had a vigorous workout or not. Maybe I'll get a heart rate monitor or something similar. And maybe not. I do have a goal of getting stronger, so it might help me.

I'm 55 and have been improving over two or three years, and I've lost weight. I'm pretty thin and lean now, 5'9" tall and around 153 pounds. I do very well at climbing hills, and I enjoy it. I want to improve endurance a lot and speed a little bit.

Have you try bicycling so hard that your heart cannot keep up and no matter how much oxygen you breath in, you dont feel like you get enough of the air? Is that dangerous?

I also know if you wait until you get heart disease, its too late to do any stress on your heart and stressing your heart is a good thing if you are healthy.

Congratulations on the improvment. I wish I was 153 pounds.

Check out, if you can, the book by Edmund Burke titled "Precision Heart Rate Training". It has sections on various sports and cycling is only one chapter - not long at all. Doesn't get into too many details or theory but is very practical on how to test for lactic threshold, set up zones and do some very basic exercises to push lactic threshold higher.



https://books.google.com/books/about...d=3y72qHvSHgMC

The most difficult thing I found was riding easy when my training plan called for it. It felt like I wasn't doing enough exercise or exercising hard enough at times and took a bit of discipline to go easy. No one wants to ride less but in the long run, if the plan calls for it on a particular day, then that's what will get you stronger and faster.

Good luck.


-Tim-

OK fine, but since I'm improving, doesn't that mean I'm doing something right? I'm sure there is potential to improve at a greater rate, but I'm not sure it matters to me.

I'm not seeing that. Where do you find that?

BB

Tim: I think it's fair to say that some optical heart rate sensors are suitable for avid cyclists in training, doing hard intervals. Others are less responsive and less accurate over shorter periods, though fine while resting or doing long consistent efforts. IIRC, for instance, the first generation Apple Watch did not perform as well as the Mio sensors you've mentioned. The consumer needs to be picky now; not all optical heart rate sensors are equal.

I use my HRM to make sure I'm working hard enough when I'm working hard. More importantly, I use it to make sure I'm NOT going too hard when I'm supposed to be taking it easy.

SP
OC, OR

if HRM's have a best and worst and we rule out those and just use an average, say price / function / reliability and a chest strap is best and a arm strap is 2nd best but is actually worn by the user but may only be a few beats less accurate and a EKG is the most accurate? my question is this i think.
is using any HRM a good tool (what ever brand or type) as the more you use it the better your base info would be? maybe not in 100% accuracy per heart beat but in overall consistency of day to day HR data? i hope that makes sense. i for one would like to know if the tiredness fatigue i feel is from over training or stressing my heart. since i've had a stroke i wonder about my heart and oxygen intake since the MRI showed a period of time before my stoke that indicates a lack of oxygen to my brain.
as a novice cyclist it wouldn't much matter if the chest strap showed 140 max beats while a arm strap showed 138 beats i'm still close to max and working hard.
thanks for all the info on this thread as I'm learning a lot here from you guys
rob

I think it depends on what your goals for riding are. My goal is to get to work and back. I have no idea what my heart rate is and I don't really care.

I just have one point of clarification. In this thread we keep seeing the term, untrainable, such as in max HR and other cardio functions. I agree things like max HR and VO2 max are set by one's genetics; however, many people are below their genetic potential, wheather it be max HR, VO2 max or whatever... In the same way, we probably have a minimum H/R set by our genetics, but many people have not reached that, because they are not in optimal cardio health.

So, yes your max HR is untrainable, but that doesn't mean you are currently able to get your heart up to that rate. However, with some training...

This is a good video that talks about that -- at about the 9-10 minute point:

I use a HRM and am 68 with a minor heart condition. I will look at the results after a ride on map my ride. My heart Dr said that the medication I was taking regulated the heart rate more than the activity level so I tend to get some strange results sometimes. overall I think it is a good tool but I would not obsess over the numbers. I am using the MIO Fuse and if it is withing a few beats that is good enough for me. With the cheaper chest strap/watch units I had problems with them reading at all even using the gel etc.

I use to have shortness of breath. Breathing hard after a short while. As I been exercising more and more, I notice I am breathing lighter. No more shortness of breath.

Reading up, it says exercise makes your heart more efficient. It takes in more oxygen, etc.

You remember efficiency with your central air unit? The ER rating? Yes, efficiency is like quality vs quantity.

[MENTION=46621]work4bike[/MENTION], that's a great video. I might watch the whole thing. I used to love Nova, and I should get back into it.

Again, max heart rate is basically a useless number. It is really nothing more than a curiosity.

Lactic threshold is what matters. A higher LT is what enables a cyclist to ride harder, longer.

What your max is or whether you can reach it or not really isn't important to cycling.


-Tim-

This is true. No one can argue against it. But on the other hand:

As you get in better and better shape, your heart rate will go down for the same amount of effort. A brand new and overweight cyclist will have their heart beating out of their chest the first time they ride up a hill. Let's say 200 bpm to put out 125 watts, this is someone who's never exercised before. But as they start to get fit, it takes 150 bpm to do those same 125 w, now their vision doesn't shrink to a tunnel when they ride up a hill, even if they're still short of breath. As they keep riding, the trend continues, now it's ~100 bpm to put out 125 watts. Now they're in better cardio shape and can tolerate vigorous, intense training, and at the same time it takes a lot more work to push them that hard.

To me, it makes max HR a muddy, uncertain number. My Garmin (watch) has an auto-discover feature where it'll update my mHR if it sees a higher value than my max during a run. Because for a lot of people, the highest they're capable of during a hard effort is what they'll consider their max. I don't know, if I can do higher today, yesterday's number wasn't really my max.

My LTHR is 165 bpm.

When I run, farther than I can sprint, the fastest I can go is 163 to 165 bpm and whatever pace that gets me. I'm burning matches when I go over my threshold, and need to slow down to recover. I can hit a steady state if I stay just under my threshold. (I ran a pretty flat 10k this summer, it took an hour, my average HR was 162 bpm.)

I don't know what my max HR is with any real certainty. Knowing it wouldn't have any tangible benefit, like allowing me to run faster.

This doesn't work on the bike, though. Running is pretty simple, cycling is more dynamic. I can burn a match going up a hill and recover on the way down, the fastest way through a ride depends on smarts and strategy, not just output.

Re red/bold, fair enough. I agree.

Max can be useful to gauge how hard the match is burning, whether any given effort is slightly above threshold or way above threshold.

The higher one goes above threshold and the longer one stays there, the more recovery is required, and it takes its toll over a long ride. Even riding a long time near threshold takes a toll.


-Tim-

Yeah. We're in complete agreement, I'm simply adding my experience to back up what you're saying about threshold HR being much, much more important than max HR.

This is a thread about heart rates, that's why I'm discussing max HR. I find it important to know my max HR and resting HR, but that's not to say that's all I consider when I train. I've also found that all out sprints (i.e. going to max HR) is good for improving my lactic threshold, which I agree is also very important.

Nobody have answer my question above. Have you try to do the above?

Will it lead to a heart attack?

Probably most or all of us have done that. If you're healthy and reasonably fit it isn't very dangerous. If you have some kind of medical problem affecting your heart, it might not be!

Yes.
Only if you pass out. You'll scrape your knee when you fall over.