I just looked at my Cyo and IQ-X. The cyo optics are what is on the Schmidt website. The cyo was originally 80lux and got a bump to 100lux for the cyo premium, which went to the edelux2.

The main difference is the wider beam on the IQ-X. It’s a nice addition on twisty roads or for spotting vermin lurking beside the road.

Schmidt has an update for there new high beam light. Supernova already has there's out and B&M lists there's on there website. I am waiting on the Schmidt product before I decide on which one I am going to purchase. They call it the Ladelux. In addition to being able to produce a high beam. It is a USB charger with a small buffer battery and can put out 12 watts. They say you can charge your phone while using the light.

Ouch at the 300 euro price!

This will be amazingly impressive if the new Ladelux can really draw up to 12 watts from the hub and put it to good use. I assume the link below is what you saw.
https://nabendynamo.de/en/products/ladelux/

The Forumslader (spell?) is a high power USB charging unit, but I think it has less power than that. A few years ago I think that Gauvins on this forum used one of those USB chargers. If I recall correctly, he could feel the extra drag when riding and charging batteries with that unit.

I use the Cycle2Charge V3 USB charger which has an output significantly less than that. I can't feel the drag, but I know there is additional drag when I am charging batteries. The output curve is at this link, the green line on the graph at the link is the V3.
https://www.cycle2charge.de/index.php/en/

I think I got slightly less output than the graph claims, but it is more output than the Sinewave Revolution that I used to use.

At my normal touring speed on flatter ground, I am looking at about 2.5 watts of output with the Cycle2Charge V3. Photo below is from my most recent tour that I got home from a few weeks ago, I tried to take some photos of the volt/amp meter plugged into the Cycle2Charge, photo shows a reading (red LED) of 0.44 amps, which would be a hair under 2.5 watts. This USB charger only works with the lights off. In this case, the power was going into my powerbank which functioned as a pass through cache battery inside my handlebar bag. My cycle computer says I was doing 9 mph in the photo.



I never had to plug into an outlet on this tour. The dynohub (Shimano, do not recall the number), the Cycle2Charge USB charger, and the pass through cache battery (Voltaic power bank) took care of my needs. The Voltaic always had three or four bars for power, so it met my needs quite well for this tour of 660 miles.

That said, the phone was off almost all the time unless I was using it. But I accidently had it on for one full day without realizing it. GPS and camera batteries consumed most of the power that I generated from the hub. There were three days where I had my dyno powered lights on for part or all of the day, at those times I was not charging batteries. Those lights were typically off, but there were a few times when I wanted the additional visibility of the extra lights, and one day I rode past sunset and needed the lighting. That said, the vast majority of the miles were charging batteries with lights off. I almost always had a taillight powered by a pair of AAA rechargeable NiMH batteries in flash mode.

I got lucky to get that photo, I could not see what I was doing when I was taking lots of photos hoping I would get one of the meter output since I had to keep my eyes on the road at the time I was trying to get the photo of what was going on under my GPS and handlebar. Most of my photos had the camera aimed the wrong way.

znomit: I can't tell if the dyno version of the B&M high beam light is available. the part # for the ebike version looks the same as the dyno version. I will need more info on these lights before I purchase one of them. I will want to know the speed at which a non flickering light is achieved. My edelux 2 achieves a non flickering light At a speed between 3-4 mph. The price does not surprise me. My edelux 2 that I purchased with my bicycle in 2013 currently retails for around $250.00.

Rosebikes say stock is 4 weeks away.
https://www.rosebikes.com/b-m-lumote...h-beam-2721491

Tourist in MSN: That is the same info I posted about the new Ladelux light. There info from August 2023 had stated 10 watts and it would be ready in spring of 2024. I hope they will have some availability before winter. I believe there new light and a 10 watt solar panel would allow me to travel and not need wall outlets on a trip.

A lot of the key to accomplishing that goal is keeping your electric consumption at a minimal level. And making sure you are not wasting power with any high resistant cables or devices. I was not keeping up on power on the first half of my five week tour in 2019, but then I found that I had a high resistance cable, I was only getting half of my power generation into the battery. Used a different cable, last half of that tour I was self sufficient with a better cable. My two week tour in 2023 and now my 2024 tours, I never needed to plug into an outlet. The 2019 tour was with the Sinewave Revolution, the 2023 and 2024 tours with the Cycle2Charge V3.

But, phone was off unless in use. At least 80 percent of the dynohub power went to battery charging, not lighting. Lighting in the campsite was minimal, etc. I take a lot of photos, had to charge up my camera batteries frequently, but it is a point and shoot camera, so the batteries were small with less than one amp hour capacity. Battery powered taillight does not use much power, I charge up the pair of NiMH AAA batteries in it weekly, but on my 2024 trip I had spares and never got around to charging up two pairs of spent batteries.

I have a couple solar panels, but I have never found them to accomplish a lot for me. Gauvins on this forum had good luck with his solar panel on his last tour, you might want to check out his comments in the past on this topic.

I recently bought a low budget (about $10 USD) solar panel, in clear blue sky I could get about 2 to 2.5 watts. Panel is too big (about 1.5 feet long) to put on the bike while riding, but it could be spread out in a campsite on a table. I might bring it on my next tour but it would only get used if I took a day off and had good sunshine while in a campsite.

Photo below, I tried to use this older solar panel to charge up my GPS batteries on a two week kayak trip in 2017, but in the end I concluded that it did not accomplish much. I would have been happier if I carried more batteries.

Hmm, I'm trying to imagine what it would feel like for my dynamo hub to draw that much kinetic energy from me. Anyone know how to describe what it might feel like? Maybe like taking 10 psi out of my tires? I love dynamo hubs, but I use them mostly to power a headlight. If I wanted more energy, I might prefer to carry a 1- or 2-pound battery. They can carry plenty of energy between stops at an outlet, depending on what I want to power.

12w would add up, no doubt. Hopefully you can just turn everything off for instances where you're getting to the time cutoff on a 750 mile ride and not sure you're going to make it. That's the only time I've ever turned off my dyno-powered lights.
Admittedly, I couldn't tell.

While the electronic devices to convert power to USB direct current at 5v are quite energy efficient, the dynohubs are much less so. I would not be surprised if when the light unit draws 12 watts, that the hub added 20 or more watts of drag. But, to put out 12 watts, I suspect that the speed is downhill speed, not average rider speed. So, that is not a realistic comparison.

This article is a decade old, but from what I can tell the dynohubs have not changed at all.
https://www.cyclinguk.org/sites/defa...ub-dynamos.pdf

At that article, the first two graphs list generator drag and list power output. If you pick a hub and compare the output (second graph) with the generator drag with the light turned on (first graph) at common riding speeds, you quickly see that a lot of extra energy is consumed that is not turned into electric power. As a rule of thumb, I assume that the hubs have roughly double the drag of the actual output in watts, but double is probably an over-estimate and each hub model is a bit different.

I have a USB charger on my rando bike, but only because I had the spare USB charger so I put it on the bike instead of in storage. I think that the typical bike rider that has a USB charger powered by a dynohub is on a long bike tour, long enough that a powerbank would not provide their needs for the entire tour. But a randonneur that is riding up to 90 some hours would probably do better with a powerbank for their non-lighting electric needs. A powerbank to keep their GPS going for up to four days is a lot simpler and probably more reliable than using the dynohub during daylight hours for battery charging.

When I am on a long bike tour, I hate to have to go wandering about campgrounds looking for unused outlets, or when I go into a restaurant, looking for a empty chair next to an outlet. And when I am touring in remote areas, there might not be any outlets at all. That is why I have a USB charger powered by dynohub for my bike tours. I bought my first dynohub a decade ago for bike touring to charge batteries, I did not buy it for lighting. Since I had the hub, I added the lighting later.

Some bike tourists use solar chargers instead of dynohubs, they are cheaper but less convenient to use, especially where clouds are prevalent.

I think it would feel like you are going up a very shallow hill, shallow enough that you do not notice the drag, but you wonder why your speed is 10 or 15 percent lower than you anticipated.

A year ago I did a two week tour with an old friend. He was complaining about the steady shallow uphill while we were riding next to a lake, thus the bike path was quite level. But he had put Schwalbe Marathon Plus Touring tires on his bike which are probably the slowest tire you can buy, but they have great flat protection.

@tourist in msn, over the years, I've learned a lot from you on this topic, and I want to express my gratitude. I bet others have learned from you, too. I haven't bike-toured in a long time though I hope to again one day. If I ever do, I'll be well informed about what to use and what not to use as well as what benefits I can expect from these gadgets. Dynamo hubs seem like an elegant solution, but I learned from you that you can really only expect an average of 2w of output. I usually use the Panasonic/Sanyo hub which has the most drag and vibration, but I don't mind, and it was inexpensive.

You mention a model of tire that is very draggy. As an experienced bike mechanic, I can fix flats without much trouble most of the time. I do not want puncture protection to drag me down at all. I even commute on Continental GP 5000 tires, though I may decide I've swung too much in that direction.

That article about hubs is great. I love stuff like that even if I'm not about to buy a hub.

There are now some breakthroughs that improve energy density of lithium batteries. I don't know if the cost will remain the same. That will make dynamos even less attractive than now.

I can still remember the drag from the bottle generators I used in the mid to late seventies. The drag was very noticeable. When I was at Fort Ord in California in 1980 a local bicycle shop had the Sanyo generator that mounted in the kickstand area in front of the rear wheel. I purchased one then and the difference in drag was quite pleasing. They didn't last as long due to the location were the rear tire sent sand and dirt into them.

It will be interesting to see what Schmidt does with there new headlight. I know that Sinewave cycles made some changes to there Beacon headlight. The first one flickered annoyingly at slow speeds, so the Beacon 2 was produced to solve this problem. The Supernova M99 DY PRO high beam dyno headlight doesn't achieve a steady headlight beam in low beam mode until 6 to 7 mph according to one reviewer. I am hoping that B&M and Schmidt do better with there new high beam headlights.

Thank you.

I have some puncture protection in all my tires, but the Marathon Plus tires are boat anchors that I have never owned and plan to never own.

Lithium batteries are getting better and cheaper every day. You can get a lot of watt hour capacity in a power bank now that does not cost that much, so a tour of less than a week, I think a power bank is the simplest option. Just bring your power with you from home. For $50 USD, you can buy a power bank with 70 watt hours of capacity. That would be roughly 30 some hours of me on a bike with my dynohub. Hilly terrain would mean more hours than that. Example, this one is roughly 12 oz:
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/anker-p...lack/6482796.p

I think the limit for what you can bring on an airplane is 100 watt hours, but before you buy one, just in case you might want to bring it on a plane some day, I would suggest you make sure your brand and model is legal to take on an airplane.

I do not recall my Luxos U headlight flickering, I think that the internal battery keeps that from happening. But all my other dyno powered headlights flicker at really slow speed. That is what you get for putting an AC power supply on a bike.

But at 3 or 4 mph, you do not need much light to see the ground in front of you. I think if I planned to do a long ride after sunset, I would bring a headlamp for my head for anything like that. I bring one on rando events in case repair is needed or puncture occurs. But if I was pedaling up a hill at 3 mph (or walking up it at 2 mph), I would be wearing it too. And the battery taillight would be on.

I am aware that Sinewave has been making some changes in their lights, but I am not shopping for one so I am not following them.

For touring, I do not even put a light on my S&S coupled bike, I only use the hub for battery charging. I carry a light that I can strap on the handlebar with an elastic just in case I need one, that one I can plug into a power bank. My light touring bike that I used on my last tour, I have an IQ-XS on it, not the biggest or most powerful, but if it is after dark it has been bright enough for my purposes, the price was right, I like that light enough that I also have it on my rando bike.

I don't know if you ever rode up a long enough hill in the dark to get it to totally deplete the cache battery, and there probably are differences between dynohubs and headlights as well. But I think once the cache battery on a Luxos is depleted, it flickers much worse than other lights. When I used mine on a mountain, the flicker was bad enough it started to make me feel ill. There's probably enough intelligence in most lights built over the last 15 years or so to ameliorate that, but they just don't worry about it. I ride up mountains in the dark fairly often, so that's important to me. OTOH, the Luxos was awesome while descending, that thing on high was amazing.

So I'm going to need some slow people to review these new lights or I'll stick with my IQ-XS

I got one of those under-BB dynamos at a swap meet and installed it on my spouse's bike. She doesn't plan to ride at night, so it's there in case night happens unexpectedly. (Ooh, that sounds silly, but you get it.) She has ended up using it a few times and says the drag is annoying. It's less than the bottle dynamo but more than a hub. I can see how it would annoy, especially a lightweight rider as she is. Too bad those things didn't work out because they were easier to install than hubs, and seemed like an improvement over the bottles, but yes, they wore out.

I think you need a good battery powered headlight mounted on your helmet for that sort of slow uphill riding.

Or, just a small German (for the light beam shape) battery powered light held to the handlebar with an elastic. Just guessing, maybe 20 lux would be all you need at that slow speed up the mountain?

I think I paid about $6 USD (pre-covid prices) for the light in the photo. No battery at all, flashlight round pattern, plug it into a good sized powerbank. This is what I bring on a bike tour if I do not have a light mounted on the bike, this is for emergency use if I need a light. The downside of this light is when you first turn it on, it starts at high power, which draws over an amp and if your powerbank does not supply enough power, it does not stay lit long enough for you to push the button again to bring it down to low power level. So, a small powerbank does not work well with it.

Touring in MSN: I'm not interested in purchasing the Sinewave Beacon either. I also compared the new Supernova high beam light and the speed you had to go to achieve a non flickering light. I have the Edelux 2 and am happy with the speed it achieves a non flickering light. I am hoping that B&M and Schmidt achieve a slow speed non flickering light on their new high beam lights. I might be able to use a rugged cell phone with a daylight visible screen for my navigation with the new Ladelux headlight. I am looking at a 17 watt solar panel and a laptop battery from Voltaic. I will need to make a lightweight frame for the solar panel, to strap it to the top or the rear or front rack. Being independent of wall outlets for my electronics may be achievable soon.

You needed a continuous tread in the center and then MTBs came. My own interest dropped because they would not work with studded winter tires.

I like my Voltaic powerbank, mine is a (discontinued) V44, has 44 watt hours of capacity. The one you are looking at has double that BUT did you notice that it is charged with higher voltage, not charged with USB? I pasted this from the specifications page:My Voltaic battery is USB voltage only, charges and discharges at the standard USB 5 volts.

On my new laptop that is charged and powered by USB-C, there is a 20v power supply that is part of the USB-C cable. But not sure if your solar panel or the new dyno powered charger will deliver that kind of voltage. Maybe they will, but I did not dig into the specifications.

The only way I can be self sufficient for power on a bike tour is to be very minimal in my energy usage. Phone off unless it is in use, etc. GPS backlight only on in early morning or late in the day if I needed it to see it, and when I had backlight on, it was set at as low a level as I could get by with. I only had bike headlight on if I felt it was important for safety reasons, or if it was obviously starting to get dark. With the Cycle2Charge that I use, you are either using light or charger, not both. If it is chilly out, like 40s (F), if you use your phone you should warm it up first so the battery does not drain too fast. When I was in Canadian Maritimes, I would warm up my phone and butane canister in the sleeping bag before I got up in the morning. That way I did not drain battery too much in getting a weather forecast on the phone.

I assume you will not be touring in sub freezing temperatures, if so you should not charge Li Ion batteries in sub freezing conditions.

In my Bike Energy Harvester, I use Nitecore NL1835LTHP Low-Temperature 18650s. My own circuit, built years ago, has relied on LiFePO4 batteries, which have superior low-temperature performance compared to lithium-ion batteries and reliably operate down to -20C.

I didn't know there were low temperature 18650 cells, that's something I need. Too bad all the taillights that use 18650 cells are either overkill or from questionable sources.
Be nice if there was something like a hotshot that uses them. Or maybe I just don't pay enough attention to available light solutions.

Interesting. I am not going to be biking in that kind of temperature, but it is good to know that there are other options for that.