K'Tesh

In proliri's post Reflectors - better than lights! there are several really good points made about reflectors. Then again, there was a lot of push back from people who felt that reflectors don't do enough to make you safe and that lights are all that's necessary.

I'm known for having both in abundance. My take on things? Why not use both.

In February of 2011, in Beaverton Oregon, Bret Lewis was struck and killed while cycling on the Tualatin Valley highway on a stormy night (coverage from BikePortland can be found here). According to his family members, the Beaverton Police Dept. did an exhaustive (15 minute) investigation , and concluded that he was riding westbound in the lane of traffic, immediately to the left (and outside) of the bike lane, and came to a complete stop directly in front of the car that struck and killed him. He was using lights.

I used to live across the rail road tracks from the place of the crash, and I had a different spin on things. I proposed that Bret was riding his bike northbound, not westbound (until the last second), using a demand trail (those trails created when people cut across a property, rather than using sidewalks or other trail's) to get to the highway, then crossing the Highway to get to the street on the other side. (BikePortland's coverage here).

What I think happened went down like this.*

• While crossing, Bret probably saw the car coming towards him, and he knew that he had working lights. He thought he was visible, and proceeds to try to cross while managing his bike in the blustery, wet weather.
• He crosses the first 4 lanes (bike lane, 2xEastbound lanes, Suicide lane, presuming that the motorist would see him, but realizes too late that the driver didn't slow, in fact he was accelerating to ~45mph (perhaps more, perhaps less).
• Bret has too much speed to come to a stop, but too little to finish the cross. He turns from northbound to westbound to try to avoid the crash, but it's too late. Perhaps his chain slips, he loses traction, we'll never know.
• Driver probably didn't see the headlights due to Bret's arms blocking the light, and/or glare. He didn't see the taillight before due to: too narrow of a focus, a long (dark?) coat , glare (I'm speculating here). Hits the brakes, but again, too late.

I was never informed of any changes in BPD's investigation, but I suspect that had Bret been wearing clothing with reflective properties, and combined reflectors with his lights, he might very well be alive and well today.

Lights are mandatory for nighttime riding in Oregon, reflectors aren't. But the two combined can't hurt, and are only complementary.

I'm not a fan of the plastic reflectors that you get when you purchase a new bike, like some people pointed out, they have a very limited angle of return. They aren't very useful, but sure beat using nothing. They also can be covered with a DOT or SOLAS tape product, and then they work a lot better.

Front/back visibility is important, but side visibility is often lacking. Most people riding bikes don't know that there's reflective sidewalls on commuter tires available.

Reflective tapes come in a rainbow of colors, and don't need to destroy your bike's looks. I've created a thread showing how to cover a bike, please check it out.

Before:After: (Day)(Night)Before:After:Somethings I'll add to the list that proliri had in his post.

Reflectors can be hidden in plain sight, thieves may not notice them and are easily tagged by cops or vigilant cyclists can use them to ID your bike after it's stolen.

Crashes can break head/taillights reflective tape will still work (barring you going down in a mud puddle deep enough to hide the bike)

Reflectors are with the bike 24-7, you apply once, and don't need to think about it again.

Rubberside Down!
K'Tesh

PS: If you see a thread about reflectors, please don't hesitate to PM me, I'm always interested in it.

*My theory is based on a similar collision I had with an elderly driver during daylight hours at lower speeds.

Burton

Nice post! I'm actually thinking about strategically placing a few low powered LEDs (Knog Skinks for example) in such a manner that they will light up reflective tape already on the bike. Fork mounted lights can light up reflective tape on forks, rims and spokes. Looking for more side visibility and shape recognition from a distance on the cycle paths where there are fewer bright lights, no automobile headlights.......and a lot of cyclists and pedestrian that insist on going ninja. I'm guessing you may already have tried this yourself.

no1mad 

I broke down and removed my OEM rear reflector earlier today. It interferred with the seat post bracket that allowed my to mount my 4D Toplight without the rack. So right now, I've got the seat wedge with reflective bits, the Cherrybomb, and the 4D. Both of the lights also act as reflectors when not powered, the 4D is more effective due to wider surface area.

I'm thinking about moving the Cherrybomb to a seat stay, putting the OEM reflector back on above the 4D, and a TBD light for the other seat stay.

Tor

Oops.... That will do an excellent job of lighting up your LEDs, but is unreliable at best for being visible to others. It depends somewhat on how far apart the lamp and tape are, but if you're lucky some of the cone from the reflector will land outside the lamp, mount, and other bike parts to be visible to a human. If you're really lucky, someone who needs to see you will be inside the bits of light that escape the system.

Of course, if your plan is to light your bike as an object, you might manage that well enough - though I suspect it would be brighter if you targeted non-retroreflective surfaces.

Tor

Burton

I'm thinking you must be imagining a complete different approach than what I have in mind. I'm already running two white Skinks on the front forks and two red ones on the rear seat stays of one particular bike and was thinking that some reflective tape on the spokes and rims might clearly define a bicycle shape just from the spill from the LEDs being in close proximity. Just an exercise in trying to get the most from the least.

no1mad 

How effective are those Skinks?

Burton

I have mixed feelings. As 'be seen' lights on the bike path they're excellent. But the output isn't enough to drive by and some areas of my own commute are completely unlit. They're also fairly water resistant, but not waterproof. I've drowned the batteries on a couple ocassions simply by driving in heavy rains for about an hour.

For fair weather drivers in residential areas (30km/h or less) with streetlamps they're excellent for anyone that wants to be seen after the sun goes down and that what I recommend them for. Anyone that wants more than that really needs to consider a different light.

Tor

Ah. Now that I've looked up the skink, I think I see the idea. I'm still not convinced that retro-reflective material will make much (if any, and I could believe a negative) difference over a simple reflective/semi-reflective metal, unless whoever needs to see you's eyes happen to be in whatever space exists between the lamp housing and the last useful part of the retro-reflector cone.

Of course, if you are putting a generally bright coloured tape over black, especially matte black, then I would expect a noticeable increase in people being able to see you as a cyclist, though I'll let you make the call on how useful it is by looking at your particular case.

If you could get mirror polished spokes, then I would be quite intrigued by the possibility of illuminating them with a lamp, especially a few lamps in different angles and locations. This would tend to throw the reflections every which way, and only a small amount back to the lamp.

Tor

prathmann

I agree with Tor that I don't see that lighting up your reflective tape with your own lights is going to work. The reflective tape shines a light back at the source of the light - so when illuminated by headlights the reflected light goes right back to the car (and the driver's eyes are close enough to his headlights to get the full brightness). But if lit up by your own lights the reflected light goes back to those lights which might not be anywhere close to the right direction to be seen by other traffic.

California and many other states have various requirements for reflectors no matter how many lights you have. And they provide good redundancy that's always present on the bike and never gets a dead battery. Reflectors can be particularly effective on moving parts of the bike (wheels, pedals , shoes, cranks) since the motion catches the eye of the motorist and also immediately identifies you as a cyclist. I've supplemented the little reflective tabs that are on my cycling shoes with big yellow reflective patches (about 2" x 3" each) that really show up well to following traffic, added similar patches to my bike bags, and put reflective tape on the rims and crank arms. But I view the reflectors as secondary to my lights.

K'Tesh

I went out tonight took several pictures of my bike (sorry, I only have dry conditions) from several distances in real world locations. For this test, I stuck with my commercially available lights for under $50USD each (the PB 5LED Beamer and the Superflash both on steady). My camera's flash is burned out, so the images with the bike illuminated was either with ambient light or my NR MiNewt X2. I couldn't find someone to assist me, but I think the images are pretty clear, lights alone don't come anywhere near the visibility as lights with reflective films applied when a light is shown across it.

Residential Street 1/4 block, crossing



Residential Street 1/4 block, from behind



Residential Street 1/4 block, oncoming



City Street crossing (10X zoom)



City Street from behind (10X zoom)



Some other points... Passive reflectivity from applied retro-reflective films don't get lost, and don't ever need to go through a clothes washer, they don't make you too warm, and don't weigh much.


I hope to test again in daylight and in with dark/wet conditions when I get a chance.

Burton

OK - just my opinion - I think you're getting too caught up in the theory of reflectative materials. I agree that there's an angular range were they're most EFFECIENT, but that doesn't make them not EFFECTIVE at any other angles. I already have reflective tape on round bicycle tubing and any light source fully lights up the complete 180 degree area of the tape - not just some little stripe in the centre where angles happen to be optimal. When driving a motor vehicle, I'm also aware that reflective signs can be well lit up by lights from other cars than my own, either a considerable distance in front of or behind me. So since these Knogs can illuminate stop signs a block away to some extent (more an indication of the effectiveness of the reflective materials than the power of the light), I find it hard to believe they won't be somewhat effective on reflective tape less than a foot away.

But this would be a very inexpensive project and easily accomplished so - I'll let you know.

Tor

Agreed that they work at other angles - for a light source at a similar angle to the observation point. The quick way to demonstrate is to put up a piece of the tape, stand ten feet from it in a dark area, and hold a flashlight in your hand. Move the light from by you eye to arms length and see how quickly the illumination falls off.

I've don this sort of thing with a 3" automotive reflector, and at about 25-30' illuminated by LED christmas lights it falls off to almost invisible when looking for it by about 3" from light source. I've also taken a quite decently bright LED (non-cycle specific) light and done the same thing with about the same results.

The entire 180 degrees of the tape is lit up because the reflective material is very good. That doesn't mean one light will light it up for a 180 degree viewing area.

Tor