North Coast Joe

I stop completely at every one, as well. It's nothing but a plus to me; adding safety, an additional workout trackstanding then accelerating away, and demonstrating to vehicles that I'm subject to the same vehicular laws (except Idaho, I hear) and rights that they are.

I've noticed the increased awareness of my presence by motorists, and given a wider berth and more courtesy. I believe it to be the fact that I do make the stops.

I've only taken a few group rides, but when I was with the local Metroparks group, the instructor/leader did not. That led to a group of a dozen cycles streaming through the intersection, often after cars had appeared, causing a potentially dangerous situation. C'mon...even if you're a volunteer leader/instructor DO THE RIGHT DAMNED THING!

The only negative that I feel about making the stops is that it must destroy my average moving speed, so I can't compare myself to the fast boyz. Doesn't matter, I guess, I ride alone.

icyclist 

I can't remember anyone on a bike coping my style of coming to a stop at stop signs. It's the opposite. That Los Angeles for you.

However, when I slow or come to a stop, on occasionI've had cars come to a complete stop next to me. I've made a study - in grad school - of what happens at 4-way stop sign intersections. Unless a car is going through an intersection, 99% of cars do not come to a complete stop. I've informally observed what happens at all stop signs ever since. Cars almost never stop.

And I've never seen a police car come to a complete stop.

On a side note, a few years ago at a stop light a young commuter rolled to a stop next to me. She looked at me and said,"Aren't wearing earbuds illegal?"

"WHAT DID YOU SAY?" I queried. "I CAN'T HEAR YOU. I'M WEARING EARBUDS!" She was not amused.

blt

I first read this thread on Friday, and thought about replying to the thread. In my reply, I was going to mention blt's first rule of stop signs -- you can die blowing a stop sign. I was going to include thoughts about a couple of very experienced hardcore riders who died blowing stop signs on routes I frequently ride, including the brother of a friend. It made me think that it was close to one year since the friend's brother died. I looked up his obit, and it turned out Friday was the one year anniversary of his death. I spent some time looking back at his obit, news articles, and commemorative postings, and I ran out of time to craft a reply. It was probably better to spend time Friday remembering Joe than posting something here. But I'll post now.

There's a lot of good food for thought in this thread. Biker395 says of his reasons for stopping, "Third, and perhaps most importantly, I don't trust myself." It is very wise not to trust oneself. If self-preservation is paramount, then that third reason is more important than "It's the law," and "It's how cars behave" (although it isn't exactly how cars behave -- while an Idaho stop is called that because bicycles are allowed it under the law in Idaho, a California rolling stop didn't get that name because it is legal).

I can't say I either trackstand or put a foot down at every stop sign. But unless there is an intersection I'm really familiar with that has long distance visibility in every direction and there are clearly no cars anywhere nearby, as I approach stop signs, I slow down to no more than 2 mph, unclip, and am prepared to put a foot down unless and until it becomes clear that it will not be necessary. I want my Idaho stops to be at least as safe as my California rolling stops when I drive (and I like to think my California rolling stops are safe).

I would list 2 main reasons for at least coming close to stopping, not quite the same as what Biker 395 says, the first is self-preservation, and the second is respect for the right of way of others. Perhaps reasoning suggested by others is valid, too, that actually stopping helps create some greater respect for cyclists among motorists.

The 2 people who died on my routes died at similar intersections about 12 miles apart -- a T intersection, where the stem comes downhill to a stop sign at the cross bar of the T where visibility isn't ideal. It really sucks to have to lose all that downhill momentum at the stop sign. But, IMHO, it really isn't worth dying over, and unfortunately, sometimes it is too easy to wrongly trust yourself. Occasionally, I do get the opportunity to talk to people planning to ride through one of those intersections and not familiar with it, and warn them that, in spite of temptation, they really need to come to at a minimum very close to a full stop at those stop signs, and be prepared to put a foot down. I can honestly tell them that visibility is deceiving there, blowing the stop sign is like playing Russian Roulette, and that a strong experienced rider has died blowing the stop sign. Don't know if my words have changed anyone's behavior, but real life examples can be better than just stating blt's first rule of stop signs.

tigat

Sobering thoughts, blt, but for good reason. Thank you.

On today's commute home with a friend, in a bike lane headed west on a one way street, a very safe bike lane with cones separating it from the traffic lanes and fresh green paint with white bikes stenciled on it, a nice and very contrite young man tuned left into a parking lot. He never saw the two bikes in the lane. As the bike closest to the turning vehicle, I had no choice but to run into his door and try to ride it around the corner. The fall and resulting damage were minor-a cut in the bar tape and a scrape on the forearm.

For me that makes 5 car crashes in the past 3 years. Every one has been in a marked bike lane.

Let's be careful out there.

digibud

"He never saw the two bikes in the lane" But he would probably have seen you if you'd have been in traffic. I know there are some places where bike lanes are safer than being in traffic, locally however I there aren't. I'm not sure if we have -any- bike lanes. In any case, it does make me wonder if, in this instance, you could have been safer in traffic. I'm not trying to rehash the entire Effective Cycling debate, just wondering what your thoughts are on that street in terms of whether it would be safer in traffic?

Artkansas 

When I ride in a group I always ride at the back. I've had too many other cyclists almost rear-end me because they assume I'm going to roll the stop sign and they cuss me out.

tigat

<br><br>Great question. On the short downtown segment of my commute, I have been avoiding the streets with the marked bike lanes for that very reason. In this case, my riding partner picked the bike lane and I was being social.<br>
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groth

My thoughts:

Life is too short to put a foot down at every stop sign.

It will be even shorter if you're not prepared to put a foot down at every stop sign.

- Ed