Alarming Article
11-18-15 | 03:53 PM
#27
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,201
Likes: 289
From: Vancouver, BC
11-18-15 | 08:17 PM
#28
just keep riding
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 13,560
Likes: 44
From: Milledgeville, Georgia
Bikes: 2018 Black Mountain Cycles MCD,2017 Advocate Cycles Seldom Seen Drop Bar, 2017 Niner Jet 9 Alloy, 2015 Zukas custom road, 2003 KHS Milano Tandem, 1986 Nishiki Cadence rigid MTB, 1980ish Fuji S-12S
:
11-18-15 | 08:46 PM
#29
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,423
Likes: 55
From: Chapin, SC
Bikes: all steel stable: surly world troller, paris sport fixed, fuji ss
I'm sure the Prada bag is nice as well but these type of luxury goods are always going to be subject to counterfeit since the difference in performance between the 18.000 bike and the 5000 bike is negligible to non-existent. A large part of the value is based on 'looks' which are relatively easy to copy. It's a little more difficult to copy an iPhone or a Porsche which also have high margins but are a few orders of magnitude more difficult to copy.
11-19-15 | 02:58 AM
#30
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,457
Likes: 87
From: NW Ohio
Bikes: Salsa Beargrease XX1, Trek Eqnuinox 9.9 SSL, Trek Madone 6.9 ,Trek District Carbon, Trek Boone7, Trek Fuel EX9.0,Trek Fuel 9.5, Trek Rumblefish Pro, Trek Remedy 9.9, Trek Equinox7, Trek District Belt
There is a difference in quality from a chinese knockoff flashlight to either Surefire or Lupine.
__________________
Trek Fuel EX9.0 Trek Fuel EX9.5 Trek Equinox 9.9SSL TTX Trek Madone 6.9 Pro Red Project One, Trek Boone 7, Trek Rumblefish Pro, Trek Remedy 9.9, Trek Carbon District
Trek Fuel EX9.0 Trek Fuel EX9.5 Trek Equinox 9.9SSL TTX Trek Madone 6.9 Pro Red Project One, Trek Boone 7, Trek Rumblefish Pro, Trek Remedy 9.9, Trek Carbon District
Last edited by trekmogul; 11-19-15 at 03:01 AM.
11-19-15 | 03:14 AM
#31
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 681
Likes: 6
From: SF Bay Area
Bikes: the bikes own me
Not all knock offs come from China and the attraction isn't always a cheap price. Sometimes it's rarity. I bought what was advertised as a NOS Dura Ace One Bolt stem (HS-7400) for my '84 Paramount build this summer from an eBayer out of Eastern Europe (can't remember if it was Poland or Croatia). When I got it it came in funky packaging and just did not look quite right. I had another HS-6400 stem that came in it's original packaging so I compared the two and it was fairly obvious the Dura Ace stem was a knock of because it had casting flash (I thought these were forged?) inside the bolt holes and the threads were poorly made. Luckily eBay forced the seller to refund my money YAY!
11-19-15 | 04:02 AM
#32
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 909
Likes: 10
I hate to tell you this, but (a) nobody elected you to decide what is important, and (b) you are assuming others suffer from your perceptual limitations. Maybe you ought to put your massive ego down for a little bit, it must be tiring to carry around with you everywhere.
11-19-15 | 05:04 AM
#33
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 17,196
Likes: 761
From: Ann Arbor, MI
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
Your underlying argument is that these items do not cost nearly that much to produce, so why should the consumer pay so much for them? The problem with that argument is that the cost of production is not, and never has been, the sole determiner of price. Marketing sizzle accounts for much of it, but certainly not all. Extremely high-quality goods also perform better, if perhaps only marginally, than their lesser-cost competitors, and that difference may be sufficient for someone sensitive to minor differences in quality.
For example, I have been known to pay upwards of $400 for a new fountain pen. Ridiculous, especially when I can scarf a free pen from the bank. I didn't pay that much because it was a name brand with sterling reputation (though it was, and for good reason), but because in this digital age, I write quite a bit with my pens, and am extremely sensitive to their nuances. That pen wrote like nothing I've ever held in my hands, and I bought it immediately.
Did it cost anywhere near $400 to produce or market? Hell no. But its quality, and my dependence on its function, made it worth that much to me.
Same with an $18k bike. You or I may not notice a difference; to others, it may be like lightning.
For example, I have been known to pay upwards of $400 for a new fountain pen. Ridiculous, especially when I can scarf a free pen from the bank. I didn't pay that much because it was a name brand with sterling reputation (though it was, and for good reason), but because in this digital age, I write quite a bit with my pens, and am extremely sensitive to their nuances. That pen wrote like nothing I've ever held in my hands, and I bought it immediately.
Did it cost anywhere near $400 to produce or market? Hell no. But its quality, and my dependence on its function, made it worth that much to me.
Same with an $18k bike. You or I may not notice a difference; to others, it may be like lightning.
11-19-15 | 06:41 AM
#34
Senior Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,381
Likes: 219
It doesn't alarm me because I'm not interested in a McLaren frame or a Prada bag. Bicycles shouldn't be $18,000, and handbags shouldn't be $2000. People who buy real ones or people who buy fakes are both getting ripped-off IMO.
Your underlying argument is that these items do not cost nearly that much to produce, so why should the consumer pay so much for them? The problem with that argument is that the cost of production is not, and never has been, the sole determiner of price. Marketing sizzle accounts for much of it, but certainly not all. [/b]Extremely high-quality goods also perform better, if perhaps only marginally, than their lesser-cost competitors, and that difference may be sufficient for someone sensitive to minor differences in quality[/b].
For example, I have been known to pay upwards of $400 for a new fountain pe … but because in this digital age, I write quite a bit with my pens, and am extremely sensitive to their nuances. That pen wrote like nothing I've ever held in my hands, and I bought it immediately.
Did it cost anywhere near $400 to produce or market? Hell no. But its quality, and my dependence on its function, made it worth that much to me.
Same with an $18k bike. You or I may not notice a difference; to others, it may be like lightning.
For example, I have been known to pay upwards of $400 for a new fountain pe … but because in this digital age, I write quite a bit with my pens, and am extremely sensitive to their nuances. That pen wrote like nothing I've ever held in my hands, and I bought it immediately.
Did it cost anywhere near $400 to produce or market? Hell no. But its quality, and my dependence on its function, made it worth that much to me.
Same with an $18k bike. You or I may not notice a difference; to others, it may be like lightning.
Nope. I was merely stating my opinion (ref: IMO) that $18,000 is an absurd amount for a bicycle and $2,000 is absurd amount for a handbag. And now I'll add that $400 is an absurd amount for a pen.
If you're looking for an underlying argument it's---> consumer greed (ego) is being exploited by both the original marketeers and the copycats.
BTW: I'll grant you that there might be some that can discern & appreciate minute differences in these ultra-luxury items but for most it's what they've been told by the people selling them ego-fulfillment.
If you're looking for an underlying argument it's---> consumer greed (ego) is being exploited by both the original marketeers and the copycats.
BTW: I'll grant you that there might be some that can discern & appreciate minute differences in these ultra-luxury items but for most it's what they've been told by the people selling them ego-fulfillment.
Your just quibbling. Relative to the automotive or computer world the differences are negligible to anyone. If you spend 3x the amount of an average car you get a substantial performance boost. Hard to make that same claim for a McClaren bike.
I hate to tell you this, but (a) nobody elected you to decide what is important, and (b) you are assuming others suffer from your perceptual limitations. Maybe you ought to put your massive ego down for a little bit, it must be tiring to carry around with you everywhere.
See these threads from this summer for opposing points of view:
”Are expensive bikes necessary? (Moral conundrum.)
My new $7,000 bike and the futility of justifying the price to the average person.
I once read this definition on BF of a really nice bike, "Lighter than a f@rt, and more expensive than a divorce."
”Are expensive bikes necessary? (Moral conundrum.)
My new $7,000 bike and the futility of justifying the price to the average person.
I once read this definition on BF of a really nice bike, "Lighter than a f@rt, and more expensive than a divorce."
Last edited by Jim from Boston; 11-19-15 at 06:45 AM.
11-19-15 | 08:15 AM
#36
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,548
Likes: 797
From: Middle of da Mitten
Bikes: Trek 7500, RANS V-Rex, Optima Baron, Velokraft NoCom, M-5 Carbon Highracer, Catrike Speed
Maybe I'm jaded, but I'm not a bit surprised that Buycycling put out an article like that. Their priority, after all, is to protect the established manufacturers. I doubt that they have any writers on their staff, and the editors' only job is to make sure the glossy Trek ads aren't right next to the glossy Giant ads. Is counterfeiting a problem? Yes, and it always has been. But when you give your designs to a foreign factory to save on labor costs, you make it easier for that stuff to happen.
11-19-15 | 09:29 AM
#38
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,201
Likes: 289
From: Vancouver, BC
Fake watches, bikes, purses etc have been with us for a long time and one guy tolling away at Specialized isn't going to stop them.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
rydabent
General Cycling Discussion
112
08-12-17 02:17 PM
