Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Fifty Plus (50+)
Reload this Page >

Dropping the statins

Notices
Fifty Plus (50+) Share the victories, challenges, successes and special concerns of bicyclists 50 and older. Especially useful for those entering or reentering bicycling.

Dropping the statins

Old 07-29-17, 05:08 AM
  #1  
wthensler 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
wthensler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Gatorland and BlueRidge heaven
Posts: 774

Bikes: 2021 Trek Domane SLR 7, 2012 Giant Defy 0, 2012 Trek Domane 6.2 P1, Bianchi Infinito CV disc Di2

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 212 Post(s)
Liked 1,000 Times in 250 Posts
Dropping the statins

For the past two years my cholesterol numbers have been creeping up above borderline high, which came as a surprise because no one else in my family has it. My parents are in their late 80s, and although in declining health now, have been blessed to lead long healthy lives.

Last year my doctor put me on Pravastatin (40 mg), but I always undermedicated, generally taking 15 my per day. I've been on them for 7 months.

Yesterday I got my lipid blood panel results, and they're encouraging. Total cholesterol has fallen from 230 to 194, LDL down from 140 to 98, and non HDL from 154 to 115.

I'm 59, have always been in good health, but believe stress and alcohol were at least partially responsible, as was a 2 year sedentary hiatus from exercise.

Well, I'm biking again pretty aggressively, have stopped alcohol, and now it's time to experiment. Although lots of folks here have complained about side effects of statins, I haven't noticed anything. But, I will strongly suggest to the Dr. next week that I drop the statins completely for 6 months. Let's see if it's the biking and better living, or the meds.
__________________
Ride hard and ride on......

Last edited by wthensler; 07-29-17 at 05:19 AM.
wthensler is offline  
Old 07-29-17, 08:47 AM
  #2  
BobbyG
Senior Member
 
BobbyG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 5,728

Bikes: 2015 Charge Plug, 2007 Dahon Boardwalk, 1997 Nishiki Blazer, 1984 Nishiki International, 2006 Felt F65

Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1297 Post(s)
Liked 1,415 Times in 709 Posts
I'm 55. I share high cholesterol with my father and siblings. In my 20s I swam every morning and my cholesterol was perfect. Then I began bike commuting in my late 20s. I stopped riding daily for a year after getting married (I was in love...and still am!) and my cholesterol and triglycerides shot up very high. With daily bike commuting and some minor diet modifications (including plain oatmeal every morning) my cholesterol hovered a fair amount over the high side of okay. The doctor I had then kept ratcheting up my Zocor...up to 80mg which helped somewhat. Then I changed doctors. The new doctor said 80mg for slightly high cholesterol was ridiculous and possibly dangerous. He dropped me back down to 20mg and told me to take 1200mg of D3 fish oil pills daily. That worked better than the 80mg Zocor. Currently I take three 1200mg fish oil pills a day, 20 mg of Zocor at night, cut down on my lunch portions and eat a tin of tuna 3 times a week with lunch. I also snack on low fat/low salt popcorn and low salt mixed nuts and I eat more salads and fish. Now my cholesterol is in the target range. Of course your "mileage" may vary.
BobbyG is offline  
Old 07-29-17, 09:16 AM
  #3  
jppe
Let's do a Century
 
jppe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 8,298

Bikes: Cervelo R3 Disc, Pinarello Prince/Campy SR; Cervelo R3/Sram Red; Trek 5900/Duraace, Cervelo P2C/Duraace, Cannondle Tandem/Ultegra, Lynskey GR260 Ultegra

Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 639 Post(s)
Liked 851 Times in 399 Posts
I've been on statins for years without any issues so far. I've tried strict dietary changes and they moved the needle in the right direction but not enough to warrant not enjoying what I like to eat and drink. Exercise has helped, but interestingly for me it's just not a significant factor for LDL improvement. Heck, I rode the bike for 3400 miles over 41 out of 43 days and my total cholesterol went up and outside the desired range. I go to a physician who practices alternative medicine (along with traditional Western medicine) and right now we are supplementing the lovastatin with red yeast rice pills. That now has me back in the normal range. My analysis for me is my Cholesterol has More to do with my genetics versus outside influencers.

Last edited by jppe; 07-30-17 at 10:27 AM.
jppe is offline  
Old 07-29-17, 09:24 AM
  #4  
John E
feros ferio
 
John E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Posts: 21,200

Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;

Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1219 Post(s)
Liked 839 Times in 572 Posts
To reduce serum cholesterol, try increasing the fiber content in the diet.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
John E is offline  
Old 07-29-17, 09:29 AM
  #5  
Rowdy
Juicy
 
Rowdy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Carpentersville, IL
Posts: 168

Bikes: Waterford, Surly Long Haul Trucker,

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by John E View Post
To reduce serum cholesterol, try increasing the fiber content in the diet.
I agree. I increased my fiber intake and my cholesterol went down significantly.
__________________
This space for rent, reasonable rates.
Rowdy is offline  
Old 07-29-17, 09:43 AM
  #6  
RonH
Life is good
 
RonH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Not far from the Withlacoochee Trail. 🚴🏻
Posts: 18,210

Bikes: 2018 Lynskey Helix Pro

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 522 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 9 Posts
My cardiologist put me on simvastatin 40mg in 2009 after I had the cardiac CT scan and the cardio guy almost had a stroke when he saw the results. My cholesterol had always been around 165. After being on simvastatin for about 6 months my cholesterol was down to 97. He was very happy.
In 2014 I was having trouble on hills and my cardio guy did a stress test and the next day had a stent put in my mid-LAD artery. A few days later I climbed the same hill with no problems.
I continued with the simvastatin for another year or so and then asked myself, "I got my cholestrol down to 97 and still needed a stent so why am I still taking it? It doesn't seem to be doing anything to help me." I talked with my cardio and my PCP and decided to drop the simvastatin. Now almost 2 years later my cholesterol is stuck at 160 and I have no problems with the hills. So unless there's another big event I'm done with the meds. I take 81 mg aspirin and a multivitamin. Life is good!!
__________________
The Lord is merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love. - Psalm 103:8

I am a cyclist. I am not the fastest or the fittest. But I will get to where I'm going with a smile on my face.
RonH is offline  
Old 07-29-17, 03:42 PM
  #7  
peterws
Full Member
 
peterws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Near Lancaster
Posts: 490

Bikes: Carrera Virtuoso and friend

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 110 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 35 Times in 27 Posts
My missus had her statins halved by a new young doctor. Her BP went over 200, so her other doctor restored them.
It took a long time for the BP to come back down.
peterws is offline  
Old 07-29-17, 10:24 PM
  #8  
70sSanO
Senior Member
 
70sSanO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Mission Viejo
Posts: 5,433

Bikes: 1986 Cannondale SR400 (Flat bar commuter), 1988 Cannondale Criterium XTR, 1992 Serotta T-Max, 1995 Trek 970

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1812 Post(s)
Liked 1,947 Times in 1,193 Posts
I've tried different cholesterol meds and some gave me muscle aches and I had a hard time healing. But a few years ago my doctor prescribed pravastatin. Started out very low and have increased it to 20mg. During that time frame I have crashed on the road bike that resulted in a shattered clavicle. I also partially tore a couple of rotator cuff tendons, which I did PT. Everything has healed without any issues. Between the riding, golf and surfing I have put my 65 year old body through enough stiff mornings, but no adverse effects from the pravastatin.

So, if you are having no adverse effects from your cholesterol medicine and have much better numbers, why would you want to stop using it? I'm really baffled by that logic. Some people have had issues and are on a crusade against any use of statins. For those people it is justified. But if you are not one of them I don't see any upside in eliminating their use. I would stay at 15mg.

John
70sSanO is offline  
Old 07-30-17, 06:37 AM
  #9  
wthensler 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
wthensler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Gatorland and BlueRidge heaven
Posts: 774

Bikes: 2021 Trek Domane SLR 7, 2012 Giant Defy 0, 2012 Trek Domane 6.2 P1, Bianchi Infinito CV disc Di2

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 212 Post(s)
Liked 1,000 Times in 250 Posts
John,

That's a fair argument, why drop something if it doesn't have any ill effects and could be the main reason for the drop? I guess I am willing to gamble that going off them will not result in ill effect either. I will ask the Dr. when I see him next week.
__________________
Ride hard and ride on......
wthensler is offline  
Old 07-30-17, 10:34 AM
  #10  
jppe
Let's do a Century
 
jppe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 8,298

Bikes: Cervelo R3 Disc, Pinarello Prince/Campy SR; Cervelo R3/Sram Red; Trek 5900/Duraace, Cervelo P2C/Duraace, Cannondle Tandem/Ultegra, Lynskey GR260 Ultegra

Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 639 Post(s)
Liked 851 Times in 399 Posts
When I started riding I had hopes I could reduce the statins. At some point I reduced the dosage by one half and the cholesterol shot up. So I went back to the original dosage. I'd love to have a level of 160 even with my meds?!?!?
jppe is offline  
Old 07-30-17, 01:45 PM
  #11  
pdlamb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: northern Deep South
Posts: 7,918

Bikes: Fuji Touring, Novara Randonee

Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2094 Post(s)
Liked 1,339 Times in 849 Posts
I see stopping a working statin as a foolish choice, as backed up be the evidence:
Stopping cholesterol-lowering drugs could be deadly | Reuters

Now having said that, if someone looks at the evidence, the odds, and the consequences, and decides to do something I see as foolish, I can't stop that person from doing something that may end up killing them, or leaving them an invalid, or causing intense pain for them and grief for their family and friends. But I would certainly urge such a person to reconsider that decision.
pdlamb is offline  
Old 07-31-17, 09:21 AM
  #12  
memebag
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,597

Bikes: 2017 Cannondale CAAD12 105, 2014 Giant Escape City

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 820 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
My cholesterol slowly got worse over 15 years or so. Finally my doctor put me on Simvastatin. It caused muscle aches so my doctor recommended CoQ10 supplements. The muscle aches went away. I also felt slightly more energetic. I believe that extra energy made bike riding more fun, and I started riding a lot because of that. Riding made me lose weight and lowered my blood pressure. I started bugging my doctor to take me off statins and eventually she agreed to try it out. That was 3 or 4 years ago and my cholesterol has been good ever since.
memebag is offline  
Old 07-31-17, 05:31 PM
  #13  
Speedskater
Full Member
 
Speedskater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 361

Bikes: Bob Jackson, Trek & Sampson

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked 8 Times in 5 Posts
Does anyone know how long it takes for a high fiber diet to have an impact on cholesterol?
A week, a month, a quarter, a year?
Conversely, what about ending a high fiber diet?
Speedskater is offline  
Old 07-31-17, 08:30 PM
  #14  
Ball Bearing
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: South Coast of Western Australia
Posts: 254
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 150 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Ball Bearing is offline  
Old 08-01-17, 08:20 AM
  #15  
OldsCOOL
Senior Member
 
OldsCOOL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: northern michigan
Posts: 13,278

Bikes: '77 Colnago Super, '76 Fuji The Finest, '88 Cannondale Criterium, '86 Trek 760, '87 Miyata 712

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 652 Post(s)
Liked 545 Times in 294 Posts
Originally Posted by Speedskater View Post
Does anyone know how long it takes for a high fiber diet to have an impact on cholesterol?
A week, a month, a quarter, a year?
Conversely, what about ending a high fiber diet?
Google "oatmeal". Dont let the man on the oatmeal box frighten you.
OldsCOOL is offline  
Old 08-01-17, 09:06 AM
  #16  
rideorfly
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by memebag View Post
My cholesterol slowly got worse over 15 years or so. Finally my doctor put me on Simvastatin. It caused muscle aches so my doctor recommended CoQ10 supplements. The muscle aches went away. I also felt slightly more energetic. I believe that extra energy made bike riding more fun, and I started riding a lot because of that. Riding made me lose weight and lowered my blood pressure. I started bugging my doctor to take me off statins and eventually she agreed to try it out. That was 3 or 4 years ago and my cholesterol has been good ever since.
Such a good point! I don't take statins, but I've talked to so many people on statins who say that CoQ10 helped their muscle pain. Apparently statins lower CoQ10 levels. I take CoQ10 for general heart health.
rideorfly is offline  
Old 08-01-17, 09:28 AM
  #17  
memebag
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,597

Bikes: 2017 Cannondale CAAD12 105, 2014 Giant Escape City

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 820 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
I'm addicted to oatmeal. I toast my steel cut oats in butter before I boil them. I make 4 servings and keep them in the refrigerator. I heat them up in the morning with some milk, local honey and fresh ground cinnamon. I just tried them with milk, blueberries and sugar. Mmmmm.
memebag is offline  
Old 08-01-17, 10:47 PM
  #18  
icyclist 
Spin Meister
 
icyclist's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: California, USA
Posts: 2,651

Bikes: Trek Émonda, 1961 Follis (French) road bike (I'm the original owner), a fixie, a mountain bike, etc.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked 41 Times in 16 Posts
I had some strange muscle pains on statins. I had rhabdomyolysis after an epic ride. So I stopped taking statins. Through diet and exercise I have superb cholesterol numbers. My cardiologist doesn't suggest I need to take statins.
__________________
This post is a natural product. Slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and are in no way to be considered flaws or defects.
icyclist is offline  
Old 08-09-17, 11:48 AM
  #19  
Joe Hxxx
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Statins are the most prescribed medicine in the world. Twenty yrs ago 200 was a very good number. As statin use was more
widespread ; the acceptable number started dropping below 200. I tried it and developed the muscle cramps along with a statin shuffle. I focus on diet and exercise now
Joe Hxxx is offline  
Old 08-09-17, 12:34 PM
  #20  
mwalsh5757
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Los Angeles basin
Posts: 161

Bikes: His & Hers 1966 Schwinn Collegiates (Mom and Dad), 3 1998 GT Palomars (The Twins and the Red Headed Step)

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by OldsCOOL View Post
Google "oatmeal". Dont let the man on the oatmeal box frighten you.
You mean that old Quaker dude? Pathetic example.

This is how a real oatmeal box man should look:

mwalsh5757 is offline  
Old 08-09-17, 12:43 PM
  #21  
MidSouthBiker
Senior Member
 
MidSouthBiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: MidSouth
Posts: 352

Bikes: Mr.White Mr.Green Mr.Orange

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
About six months ago my doctor suggested taking the Simvastatin every other day instead of daily, after I complained about muscle cramps in my legs. We'll see next month if my numbers jump or not.
MidSouthBiker is offline  
Old 08-09-17, 02:31 PM
  #22  
OldsCOOL
Senior Member
 
OldsCOOL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: northern michigan
Posts: 13,278

Bikes: '77 Colnago Super, '76 Fuji The Finest, '88 Cannondale Criterium, '86 Trek 760, '87 Miyata 712

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 652 Post(s)
Liked 545 Times in 294 Posts
Originally Posted by mwalsh5757 View Post
You mean that old Quaker dude? Pathetic example.

This is how a real oatmeal box man should look:

I'd buy that. A piping hot bowl of that with a dash of tobasco before that century ride.
OldsCOOL is offline  
Old 08-09-17, 02:32 PM
  #23  
OldsCOOL
Senior Member
 
OldsCOOL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: northern michigan
Posts: 13,278

Bikes: '77 Colnago Super, '76 Fuji The Finest, '88 Cannondale Criterium, '86 Trek 760, '87 Miyata 712

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 652 Post(s)
Liked 545 Times in 294 Posts
Originally Posted by MidSouthBiker View Post
About six months ago my doctor suggested taking the Simvastatin every other day instead of daily, after I complained about muscle cramps in my legs. We'll see next month if my numbers jump or not.
Did the cramping cease?
OldsCOOL is offline  
Old 08-09-17, 02:43 PM
  #24  
Biker395 
Seat Sniffer
 
Biker395's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: SoCal
Posts: 5,369

Bikes: Serotta Legend Ti; 2006 Schwinn Fastback Pro and 1996 Colnago Decor Super C96; 2003 Univega Alpina 700; 2000 Schwinn Super Sport

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 834 Post(s)
Liked 1,244 Times in 399 Posts
Originally Posted by pdlamb View Post
I see stopping a working statin as a foolish choice, as backed up be the evidence:
Stopping cholesterol-lowering drugs could be deadly | Reuters

Now having said that, if someone looks at the evidence, the odds, and the consequences, and decides to do something I see as foolish, I can't stop that person from doing something that may end up killing them, or leaving them an invalid, or causing intense pain for them and grief for their family and friends. But I would certainly urge such a person to reconsider that decision.
I dunno. You could look at those figures differently too. From one of the quoted articles:

Four years after the presumed adverse event, the cumulative incidence of the composite primary outcome was 12.2% for patients with continued statin prescriptions, compared with 13.9% for those without them (difference, 1.7% [95% CI, 0.8% to 2.7%]; P < 0.001). In a secondary analysis of 7604 patients for whom a different statin was prescribed after the adverse reaction, 2014 (26.5%) had a documented adverse reaction to the second statin, but 1696 (84.2%) of those patients continued receiving statin prescriptions.
Statin Continuation After Adverse Reactions and Outcomes | Annals of Internal Medicine | American College of Physicians

In other words, you've increased your chance of having another heart attack in the next 4 years by about 1.7% by not taking stains. While the study touts that as a 12% increase in risk, there are other ways to die too.

Like from diabetic complications for example. And statins can increase your chances of developing diabetes:

A clinically relevant concern with statin therapy is a significantly increased risk of new-onset diabetes in patients on statin therapy. The JUPITER trial reported a 25% increase with rosuvastatin 20 mg, over a median follow-up of 1.9 years, compared to those on placebo 9. Since then, several meta-analyses have confirmed a smaller but significant increase with various statins ( Table 1). The analysis by Sattar et al. in 91,140 subjects showed a 9% overall risk in 13 RCTs over a mean period of 4.0 years (odds ratio [OR] 1.09; 95% CI 1.02–1.17)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4926726/

So it's hard to know what to do.

After a CT angiogram, my doc told me statins were "optional" but a good idea if I wanted to keep riding into my 80s. I decided to try them. I got weird muscle aches I've never had before, and joint pain went from minor occasional pain to frequent moderate pain. To the extent that would stop me from getting exercise and enjoying life, I jettisoned the statins.

The symptoms disappeared.

Lifestlyle changes aren't going to make any difference. I'm already 3 sigma with exercise, and my diet is very low in bad fats. I've taken to drinking more wine (twist my arm) and nuts like cashews and almonds (supposedly higher in natural statins). I already eat 1/2 cup of oatmeal a day.

I'll go back to the doc and see what he says about taking different statins or CoQ10, do my research and decide what is next.
__________________
Proud parent of a happy inner child ...

Biker395 is offline  
Old 08-09-17, 02:57 PM
  #25  
MidSouthBiker
Senior Member
 
MidSouthBiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: MidSouth
Posts: 352

Bikes: Mr.White Mr.Green Mr.Orange

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by OldsCOOL View Post
Did the cramping cease?
Mostly, Yes.
I am mainly a weekend warrior for cycling, but I was getting the leg cramps all throughout the week. I just thought it was part of the Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness, that I also get.

But my doctor said no. He told me he is also on Simvastatin and was getting the cramps also, but he does not ride. He said after starting the every other day routine, his cramps ceased. Mine have too during the later part of the week. I still get some rarely on like Sunday evenings or Mondays. By the way the good doctor and I are on the 20mg version of Simvastatin. Also, my cholesterol has been under control for a couple years now.
MidSouthBiker is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2022 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.