Very well said.

I don’t feel it necessary to defend my posts against those that are either ill informed or argumentative for the sake of being argumentative. This is a known argumentative individual. If he had a valid concern supported by reputable medical institutions or studies, I would be more than happy to entertain his point of view - but there is no science to support him. Only thing he has is hot air.

Taking a page from your syllogism: All heroin users were originally milk drinkers as babies. Ergo, all early drinkers of milk will become heroin abusers.

Non member's of the OP's choir on this forum have been dis-invited from the get-go in participating in any sharing of thoughts on bicycling or any comments on "their forum" that might not conform to confirmation and/or admiration of the choir's wisdom about bicycling.

The chip on your shoulder is not my problem.

Quick warning about creatine: it might make you fart. A lot. Real stinky farts. The farts stop a few days after you stop creatine - good strategy if you are going on a car trip with your sweetie or attending a wedding. Ask me how I know.

My hill climbing has improved over the summer since I started creatine and BA. Not sure if it correlation or causation (or jet propulsion).

Good to know. Maybe I should start using it just to discourage all the wheelsuckers I pick up on the local MUPs.

I followed the advice of Rhonda Patrick a well regarded Youtuber. She is a Ph.D. biomedical scientist, health educator, and science communicator known for her work on aging, nutrition, and genetics. She suggested putting creatine, leucine and collagen in your morning coffee. I used really minimal amounts. Maybe a 1/4 teaspoon of each. Then I had an additional several cups of coffee which is my routine. Those were without supplements. On the night of the third day of this routine I had the worst GI issues of my life.

I do add small scoop of collagen into my 1st cup of coffee... works fine, feels results feel good...
I've tried a bunch of different Whey Protein in assorted drinks - doesn't dissolve easly - little lumps while drinking.
Only way Whey (LOL!) seems to mix well is in a blender smoothie - which I don;t do that often any more.... Need to f ind a good way to have Whey. Oh Boy! so no WHey yet !
LOL!
Ride On
Yuri - that was fun - it's the little things which make me joyful !!! LOL !

I’m familiar with her advice through her podcast. She always says creatine is safe for “healthy individuals”, but I’ve never heard her explain what health issues should be of concern (she may have and I missed it). I bring up kidney function because that’s often cited By others as a qualifier for creatine use and because kidney disease is very common among older folks. Interesting to hear your effort to ease into it still caused GI issues.

Noting this this AM after a couple days' feeling as though I may be having another go at dealing with kidney stone(s). Had a biggun back 15 years ago, measured something like 17mm in my right kidney. Went through a lithotripsy procedure that broke it up nicely, resolved the intense (!!!) pain and coffee-colored urine that caused me to seek help.

At 76+ I'm too aware we seniors (when do we graduate?) have decline in kidney function. I'm prolly guilty as all heck about not doing everything I can to maintain healthy kidneys (not enough water, too much dairy, maybe a fondness for cranberry sauce and ginger preserves?) so as my body's minder I can't blame anything but my own stubbornness.

May need to make some changes once I find out what's really going on back there. Could simply be a pulled muscle from last weekend's leaf cleanup... maybe....

You buy one or more of these flasks: https://www.amazon.com/VIGIND-Protei.../dp/B08S3VHM6D
They have a wire spiral inside the cap. I've been using these for years. They don't seem to ever break, fail, or leak. I shake at least 20 times - actually I shake them 100 times, but that's mostly to exercise my shoulder muscles. Everything we do helps. I also take collagen, which got rid of my saddle sores.

Update:

I have put on a few lbs (5 to be precise) which may be due to creatine or binge eating while my mother was dying or both. The good news is that my cycling recovery seems to be faster and I have gained additional power on sprints or short hill climbs. Two days ago, I set at age 70.85, a PR on a 3 mile hill climb by 30 seconds which actually felt no more difficult than usual. I have made that climb at least 10 times, and usually don’t poke along. Today I hit 709 Watts with an average of 199 Watts over a 40 mile ride. I am not a powerful rider, but am starting to feel more like I did 30 years ago where I can put down more power over longer distances. Just had a comprehensive blood panel run and it all came back normal except of a high normal for cholesterol, which I have had for the last 4 years, 3.5 years before starting supplementation. It may just be placebo, but so far what ever it is, it’s working. However; I do train hard and consistently, so that is a contributing factor.

I have not yet tried Creatine but one thing I have been using is Collagen. I started using it in the summer and noticed a massive difference in my recovery and how I was feeling in the mornings, far less stiff and achy. I sadly crashed and broke my leg a few weeks ago and continued to take it in my coffee each day and noticed a massive increase in the speed of my recovery so would highly recommend! Personally I've been using the Veloforte CollagenPro but I know there are lots of options out there.

so, I have an update on my own supplementation...
The ongoing discussion of 'supplementation' consistently crops up at the 'coffee circle', after our Saturday rides.
It ranges from simple vitamins to that occasional mention of 'Vitamin T'...
AS it happens, a number of other old guyz have become regular Creatine users... I've always resisted doing active supplementation, however, the battery of regular Metabolic and blood panels during my cancer treatments these past years has had me rethinking and actively using the common vitamins, C, D, E, and some eyesight related supplements...
I added HMB a year or so ago based on discussion here on BF.
I have read some considerable info on Creatine and 2 weeks ago I decided to give it a try.
Started 5g supplementation in the morning, with my coffee and breakfast. Hadn't noticed much, if any affect initially.
4 Days ago I added another dose in the evening, before dinner - also approx 3 to 5g - not really keeping that dose to some exact measure. I was not expecting any result or difference...
Since then I've noticed extended 'energy' throughout a ride - I mean it was immediate and quite prominent. Prior, at about 30 miles inti a ride (usually done in a combo of strong Z2 to high Z4) I would feel my energy fade quite a bit.
Now I seem to be able to hold a strong energy level throughout my rides, most at a strong intensity of 30 to 40 mi 1 hr 45 ish min to 2 hrs 30 (depending on altitude gain...)
Nothing else has changed, diet is unchanged for content, amount and timing. Sleep about the same. No weight gain or loss.
Only difference has been the Creatine - especially the 2x dose every day.
...we shall see what the extended use brings...
at the moment it's the only supplement which has produced a noticeable difference/effect.
Ride On
Yuri

Glad to learn it is working for you. Studies have also shown, perhaps more importantly, that it slows age related cognitive decline. I know some people who take it only for that specific purpose.

In a personal note, last year my average watts on a ride was about 180. Now I am maintaining 190-200. Yesterday’s short ride (14 miles) was 214 weighted average - but then I was freezing my rear off and worked hard to keep warm.

Look forward to future reports.

Interesting posts those two latest ones.

Been augmenting regular diet for several months now with collagen peptides, mostly for joint maintenance and other body needs.

Approaching the starting line for my 78'th lap around Sol I'm too well aware of the toll time is taking on my body. Still, I remain active enough to work 30+ hours each week in a hardware store doing routine stocking as well as providing answers for "how do I do..." questions from customers daily. Humping freight twice a week's routine too, as there's no way to sell stuff if there's nothing in the store to sell.

May look into creatine supplementation whilst waiting for the weather to begin a slow climb back above the 0°F point we've been lumbered with here for a couple of days now.

Two years ago my wife convinced me to start using a creatine supplement. It went well for a week and then I started to break out in itchy spots. I took no other supplements alongside this one. I guess I am allergic to the stuff. Felt much better after I stopped taking it.

I did a bunch of online readings about creatine, both vetted sources about the general use and effects and reviews from users, especially as pertains to brands...
Most all the the brands had some negative reviews - some questioning quality and some of adverse side-effects... Some spoke of not having problems with other brands...
So, I expect both the experienced benefits and side-effects will vary in any group of users...
... maybe try another brand than the one you initially used ??? would it be worth the effort ??? who knows...

For those who are Costco members - there currently is a 'special' on the Orgain Creatine - 1.48 lb container for $15.00 - it seems it's valid thru 2/1...

Ride On
Yuri

A very reasonable suggestion. Looking at products displayed for sale in various retail establishments it appears there's a wide range of pricing / dosage. What's less apparent is the level of quality among them.

I made a selection yesterday out of the display of supplements at my local food co-op here. Thinking that their avowed focus is on quality and health benefits of what they provide rather than simply profit, still a 'blind faith' risk for what benefits or side effects may result.

I was taking creatinine and different vitamins years ago and I went for my yearly check up and my blood test was all over the place. The doctor told me to drop all of them.I went back for another test three months later and everything was good.

Since there appears to be confusion about what constitutes a ‘safe’ supplement, Consumer Reports states that you should buy only if certified by one or more of the following labs:
- UL Certified
- NSF
- USP
- ConsumerLab (CL)

Muscle Mass - yes, important for so many bodily functions and especially important for us older individuals.
But it's also a primary consideration in human 'shock absorption' and preventing impact injuries.
Weight lifting does not 'build' muscle mass - weigh lifting creates the conditions which stress the body to induce muscle strengthening and building. As do other processes which induce muscle building.
To build muscle - the fundamental ingredients need to be available in the body... Proteins and enzymes needed for the building process.

I have had difficulty 'retaining' muscle these past few years, I'm about 15 lbs lighter than I'd like to be - as relates to a relatively 'lean' body with adequate muscle...
I have enough 'insulation', need more of the important tissue - good blood levels, muscle and well performing gray matter...
Besides natural sources for important body nutrition, I take Vitamins (assorted), Beta Alanine, HMB, and now Creatine.

For those who have not done much investigation, here's what Google AI has to say...
_____________
"...Alternatives to creatine for boosting exercise performance, muscle growth, and energy metabolism include supplements that enhance muscle buffering capacity, support protein synthesis, or improve blood flow, such as beta-alanine, HMB, BCAAs, and beetroot juice. These options provide similar benefits for endurance and strength without the water retention often associated with creatine.
Top Alternatives to Creatine

• Beta-Alanine: Increases carnosine levels in muscles, reducing fatigue and improving endurance during high-intensity exercise.
• HMB (Beta-hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate): Helps preserve muscle mass, particularly during intense training or dieting.
• Branched-Chain Amino Acids (BCAAs): Specifically leucine, isoleucine, and valine stimulate muscle protein synthesis and aid in recovery.
• Beetroot Juice/Powder: Provides nitrates that improve blood flow, enhance oxygen delivery, and improve energy efficiency.
• Betaine: May assist in improving power output and boosting cell hydration.
• Whey Protein: Supports muscle repair and growth, providing essential amino acids for recovery.

Natural Dietary Sources of Creatine
If a supplement alternative is not preferred, the body can acquire creatine directly from foods:

• Red Meat & Pork: Beef and pork are excellent, natural sources of creatine.
• Fish: Herring, salmon, and tuna.
• Other: Dairy products, such as milk and cheese, also provide small amounts.

Key Considerations

• Efficacy: While alternatives provide benefits, creatine monohydrate is often considered the most effective, safest, and cheapest option for strength.
• Combination: For optimal results, these supplements can be combined with a balanced diet and structured training program. "
  ___________________

Aging creates more and newer challenges, especially if one still wishing to participate actively in living.
I know if I don;t pursue possibilities, nothing will 'improve'. Which means a 'decline' at this point in life.
Somethings work out, others need to be off the list. Reasonable efforts in 'trying' are an essential part, for me.
Ride On
Yuri

EDIT: I'm also taking WHey Protein, because my overall protein intake is well below 70 g /day. And given I'm riding (and infrequently doing other physical stuff) every day; I need to increase my protein intake some significant amount... I could increase in meals, but having a protein shake after my session seems a much easier and possibly a more timely process.

My practice has been to only take substances which have favorable published scientific research - and then see what happens. Re creatine: I didn't notice any particular weight gain, but that's sorta immaterial because I did notice an increase in climbing rate over the first summer. Hard to put that down to one thing though. I was also doing 3 sets of 30 in the gym, last set to failure at about 28, which was the most successful weight program I've used for cycling. However, I've gone back to the conventional 10-12 reps because 30 just took too much time. At 80 my legs look plenty muscular. Creatine's not magic - you still have to do the work.

From what I have read, creatine is shown to improve high strength, high intensity, short burst activities. Weight lifting for gym folks, probably sprinting or a very short hill for us. But not much for long efforts and endurance activities like cycling. So for me, the potential risk/reward is not worth it, but I will continue to follow the discussion.

But the whey protein thing is a different story. After reading way too much and documenting my diet for a couple of weeks, I conclude that I probably could use more protein in my diet. If I have chicken for lunch and salmon for dinner, that is good enough. But many days not nearly enough so I make a protein shake. It is made from whey, which is milk so safety does not concern me. 20g is not a huge addition.

At the end of last year and early in Jan of this year, I tried creatine. First go around was 5g/day in the AM with breakfast. Within a few days I was definitely feeling more power in my legs on short, hard climbs, and setting recent PRs on Zwift segments. Heck, even climbing the stairs felt easier, lol. The problem was that just inside of two weeks after starting supplementation, I started developing severe insomnia. It turns out that insomnia is a relatively rare, but real side effect of creatine supplementation. After a week of very poor sleep, I discontinued the creatine, but then suffered through incredible fatigue for a week - which turns out to also be a common side effect of stopping creatine. A month later, I tried taking creatine again, with a lower daily dose of 2-2.5g, also in the AM, and ended up developing the same insomnia, perhaps a little less intense. At that point I decided to pull the plug on creatine, because although it absolutely worked for me in terms of muscle strength, with minimal water weight gain, the insomnia was not something I could deal with. If it has not been for the insomnia, I absolutely would have kept taking it.