Global Warming????
04-20-07 | 10:20 PM
#176
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Originally Posted by CB HI
I am pretty sure they still provide the paper. Navy can't take all the credit for the visitor center, that is run by the US Parks Service. Navy does run the boats and looks over the USS Arizona itself. The Navy did build a nice memorial on the other side of Ford Island, where the USS Iowa still rest, plus they allowed a new private donation Air Museum on Ford Island.
Last edited by RockyMtnMerlin; 04-20-07 at 10:42 PM.
04-20-07 | 10:35 PM
#179
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Oh and anyone who tells you junk about "scientists" proclaiming a global cooling scare - is just that: profusing junk and hyperbole. For a real source of information, and rebuttals to 'global cooling' and all sorts of hogwash that denialists resort to:
www.realclimate.org
Tip: use the search engine. Type global cooling, for example.
www.realclimate.org
Tip: use the search engine. Type global cooling, for example.
04-20-07 | 10:40 PM
#180
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Originally Posted by wubrew
Scientific facts are notoriously double edge. It can be used to proof/refute both ways! That being said, we all know that politicians love to use so called " Scientific Facts " as a mean of projecting themselve in a better light i.e as honest, sincere, unbias, etc. There are data on the amount CO2 that support green house effect covincingly, and there are data refuting. The whole issue of global warming became a focal point of contention was when USA refused to support the Kyoto agreement because of its self interest. What then is the self interest of the USA? Simply put: Maintaining The American Way of Life. Everybody in this forum need to be honest with oneself about what TAWL really means to each of us. Especially if one lives in the USA.
To me TAWL means, Freedom. Freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom to travel, freedom to live the way one chooses, freedom to---. You all get the idea. No other country in the history of the world has as much freedom as USA.
Now global warming may be 1)The absolute truth,2) Halft truth or 3)Complete lie and can be debated until kingdom come. One simple fact that begs to be recognized is that the 'global warming theory' has become a completely political agenda. The proponent cited proof against and the opponent did the same.
The facts are that the supporter such as China, India, Russia few other countries are producing almost same amount of CO2 per capita as USA and there are no limit/restraint, on their future CO2 emission limitation. Just like all poltical agenda, these important facts are conveniently ignored and American reluctant to participate in this flawed agreement is used as a whip to prove us as bully, ignorant, wasteful etc. For similar reason USA did not sign the Hague/world Court agreement. We are still being chastised. So much for the outsiders sentiment on our refusal to sign up. What is more important is TAWL.
We all know that subjecting oneself to other wish entail sacrifice. What then do we sacrifice in agreeing to the above two examples of our refusal? Yes, freedom. I will not go into how much our freedom or how freedom can be sacrifice. I just want to remind all that we all live in the most productive, most efficient, most tolerant, most---- country in the world. Will you like to sacrifice any of those just a few mentioned privileges that we enjoyed? Remember the enduring wisdom/cry of our fore father/ founder: Give me Liberty or Give me----?. Be sure that you debate well on this subject and come to a concensus instead of quoting high minded facts, wisdom to castigate each other. Because what ever we agree on or disagee with; remember not to sacrifice our liberty for polical correctness. As for myself I will like to maintain my interpretation of TAWL as long as possible without having someone telling me to. That to me is Liberty as I understand it and the freedom that this understanding brings to one and to all around me.
To me TAWL means, Freedom. Freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom to travel, freedom to live the way one chooses, freedom to---. You all get the idea. No other country in the history of the world has as much freedom as USA.
Now global warming may be 1)The absolute truth,2) Halft truth or 3)Complete lie and can be debated until kingdom come. One simple fact that begs to be recognized is that the 'global warming theory' has become a completely political agenda. The proponent cited proof against and the opponent did the same.
The facts are that the supporter such as China, India, Russia few other countries are producing almost same amount of CO2 per capita as USA and there are no limit/restraint, on their future CO2 emission limitation. Just like all poltical agenda, these important facts are conveniently ignored and American reluctant to participate in this flawed agreement is used as a whip to prove us as bully, ignorant, wasteful etc. For similar reason USA did not sign the Hague/world Court agreement. We are still being chastised. So much for the outsiders sentiment on our refusal to sign up. What is more important is TAWL.
We all know that subjecting oneself to other wish entail sacrifice. What then do we sacrifice in agreeing to the above two examples of our refusal? Yes, freedom. I will not go into how much our freedom or how freedom can be sacrifice. I just want to remind all that we all live in the most productive, most efficient, most tolerant, most---- country in the world. Will you like to sacrifice any of those just a few mentioned privileges that we enjoyed? Remember the enduring wisdom/cry of our fore father/ founder: Give me Liberty or Give me----?. Be sure that you debate well on this subject and come to a concensus instead of quoting high minded facts, wisdom to castigate each other. Because what ever we agree on or disagee with; remember not to sacrifice our liberty for polical correctness. As for myself I will like to maintain my interpretation of TAWL as long as possible without having someone telling me to. That to me is Liberty as I understand it and the freedom that this understanding brings to one and to all around me.
Last edited by RockyMtnMerlin; 04-21-07 at 08:06 AM.
04-21-07 | 01:46 PM
#181
Originally Posted by RockyMtnMerlin
Having been stationed on Ford Island (3rd Fleet Staff) and having studied a bit of the attack on Ford Island, I think you meant to say USS Utah. The USS Iowa was not sunk at Pearl Harbor. In fact she was decommssioned in Oct 1990. FWIW an interesting historical note. I was a LCDR at Pearl Harbor from 1986-1988 and I was once assigned escort duty to a VIP to visit the USS Arizona Memorial. It came as a shock to me (and is historically wierd) that the officer I escorted to the Arizona Memorial was Admiral Yamamoto, head of the Japanese Maritime Self Defense Force (Japanese Navy)intelligence department. The Park Serice suspended visits to the Memorial while we were there. He laid a wreath and was truly contemplative and seemed very moved by the visit. I do not know if he was a relative of the (in)famous WWII Admiral Yamamoto.
Ford Island is really changing from the days you and I had offices there. New bridge and building lots of new housing. The new housing at all the bases is really nice.
Last edited by CB HI; 04-21-07 at 01:53 PM.
04-21-07 | 02:45 PM
#182
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Originally Posted by CB HI
You are right, I did mean USS Utah. Must have been thinking of ILTB and N C in Iowa while typing. I normally try and visit the USS Utah on Memorial Day, and reread the lost heros names. The hull is still there with a fair amount above surface. All my visits to the USS Arizona have either been for re-enlistments and a VIP tour.
Ford Island is really changing from the days you and I had offices there. New bridge and building lots of new housing. The new housing at all the bases is really nice.
Ford Island is really changing from the days you and I had offices there. New bridge and building lots of new housing. The new housing at all the bases is really nice.
04-21-07 | 06:27 PM
#183
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From: OK
CB HI
What finally happened with Ft Derussy?? The last time I was there (1996), There was a lot of controversy/hubbub about dropping it as RR site or closing it completely to sell it to hotel chain......Marriot I think. Ft Derussy was my first taste of Hawaii......2 weeks VietNam RR July 1965
What finally happened with Ft Derussy?? The last time I was there (1996), There was a lot of controversy/hubbub about dropping it as RR site or closing it completely to sell it to hotel chain......Marriot I think. Ft Derussy was my first taste of Hawaii......2 weeks VietNam RR July 1965
04-21-07 | 08:15 PM
#184
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Wanted to post this earlier, just forgot, old age you know. At the Pheonix airport waiting for a van and the guy next to me strikes up a word with a couple from Scotland. Gets into it with them about how much gas costs over there, $10 a gallon with all the tax. Then tells them straitfaced; How's that Global Warming problem over in Scotland? I hear the sea levels have risen 20 feet over there."
The guy was dead serious and is a perfect example of what the media had done about this issue.
The guy was dead serious and is a perfect example of what the media had done about this issue.
04-21-07 | 09:30 PM
#185
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Originally Posted by oilman_15106
Wanted to post this earlier, just forgot, old age you know. At the Pheonix airport waiting for a van and the guy next to me strikes up a word with a couple from Scotland. Gets into it with them about how much gas costs over there, $10 a gallon with all the tax. Then tells them straitfaced; How's that Global Warming problem over in Scotland? I hear the sea levels have risen 20 feet over there."
The guy was dead serious and is a perfect example of what the media had done about this issue.
The guy was dead serious and is a perfect example of what the media had done about this issue.
04-21-07 | 09:56 PM
#186
Originally Posted by Thrifty1
CB HI
What finally happened with Ft Derussy?? The last time I was there (1996), There was a lot of controversy/hubbub about dropping it as RR site or closing it completely to sell it to hotel chain......Marriot I think. Ft Derussy was my first taste of Hawaii......2 weeks VietNam RR July 1965
What finally happened with Ft Derussy?? The last time I was there (1996), There was a lot of controversy/hubbub about dropping it as RR site or closing it completely to sell it to hotel chain......Marriot I think. Ft Derussy was my first taste of Hawaii......2 weeks VietNam RR July 1965
Biggest changes are: Barbers Point is closed and given to the State. Manana Storage facility was closed, given to the State, then given to the City then sold to Wal-Mart and other retailers. Part or all of Pearl City housing was given to the State (and with Manana) in exchange for the State building the Ford Island Bridge. Iroquis Point Housing has been turned over a builder as consideration for building new housing on Ford Island.
Pretty much, most of the other bases are still here, some road configuration changes, some new building and lots of old housing replaced with new very nice housing (housing we all wish we had).
04-21-07 | 10:31 PM
#187
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Originally Posted by Thrifty1
CB HI
What finally happened with Ft Derussy?? The last time I was there (1996), There was a lot of controversy/hubbub about dropping it as RR site or closing it completely to sell it to hotel chain......Marriot I think. Ft Derussy was my first taste of Hawaii......2 weeks VietNam RR July 1965
What finally happened with Ft Derussy?? The last time I was there (1996), There was a lot of controversy/hubbub about dropping it as RR site or closing it completely to sell it to hotel chain......Marriot I think. Ft Derussy was my first taste of Hawaii......2 weeks VietNam RR July 1965
04-22-07 | 12:00 AM
#188
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FWIW this from Australia on the the 19th. -- “Australia has warned that it will have to switch off the water supply to the continent’s food bowl unless heavy rains break an epic drought - heralding what could be the first climate change-driven disaster to strike a developed nation.”
The Prime Minister, John Howard, a hardened climate-change sceptic, delivered dire tidings to the nation’s farmers yesterday. Unless there is significant rainfall in the next six to eight weeks, irrigation will be banned in the principal agricultural area. Crops such as rice, cotton and wine grapes will fail, citrus, olive and almond trees will die, along with livestock.
A ban on irrigation, which would remain in place until May next year, spells possible ruin for thousands of farmers, already debt-laden and in despair after six straight years of drought.
Australia is the only major industrialized country other than the U.S. to reject the Kyoto Protocol.
The Prime Minister, John Howard, a hardened climate-change sceptic, delivered dire tidings to the nation’s farmers yesterday. Unless there is significant rainfall in the next six to eight weeks, irrigation will be banned in the principal agricultural area. Crops such as rice, cotton and wine grapes will fail, citrus, olive and almond trees will die, along with livestock.
A ban on irrigation, which would remain in place until May next year, spells possible ruin for thousands of farmers, already debt-laden and in despair after six straight years of drought.
Australia is the only major industrialized country other than the U.S. to reject the Kyoto Protocol.
04-22-07 | 05:51 AM
#189
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30 years ago, scientists were convinced we were heading into an ice age. Now they're convinced we going to burn. I'm convinced if I had a nickel for every instance they are wrong, I'd be a billionaire - many times over.
The earth has warmed and cooled many times and will continue to do so. Why it's doing whatever it's doing now, is not known. I don't care if scientists do have a consensus on this. Time will prove that they don't know what they're talking about. It always does. This thing we call earth is far too complex to figure out that easily.
Anyone who believes otherwise, I'd be happy to sell you some carbon-credits, so you can do your part to correct it.
The earth has warmed and cooled many times and will continue to do so. Why it's doing whatever it's doing now, is not known. I don't care if scientists do have a consensus on this. Time will prove that they don't know what they're talking about. It always does. This thing we call earth is far too complex to figure out that easily.
Anyone who believes otherwise, I'd be happy to sell you some carbon-credits, so you can do your part to correct it.
04-22-07 | 07:02 AM
#190
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Originally Posted by McSpin
30 years ago, scientists were convinced we were heading into an ice age. Now they're convinced we going to burn. I'm convinced if I had a nickel for every instance they are wrong, I'd be a billionaire - many times over.
The earth has warmed and cooled many times and will continue to do so. Why it's doing whatever it's doing now, is not known. I don't care if scientists do have a consensus on this. Time will prove that they don't know what they're talking about. It always does. This thing we call earth is far too complex to figure out that easily.
Anyone who believes otherwise, I'd be happy to sell you some carbon-credits, so you can do your part to correct it.
The earth has warmed and cooled many times and will continue to do so. Why it's doing whatever it's doing now, is not known. I don't care if scientists do have a consensus on this. Time will prove that they don't know what they're talking about. It always does. This thing we call earth is far too complex to figure out that easily.
Anyone who believes otherwise, I'd be happy to sell you some carbon-credits, so you can do your part to correct it.
04-22-07 | 09:00 AM
#191
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From: OK
Originally Posted by RockyMtnMerlin
My first taste too. 1975. If I remember correctly (it was my first experience with Mai Tai's) the O club was a couple of grass shacks down by the beach. Still has probably the nicest stretch of beach on Wacky Wacky. I hope that it stays there forever and many many military people get to enjoy it. I especially like the fact that enlisted pay less to stay there than officers.
04-22-07 | 09:53 AM
#192
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Originally Posted by McSpin
30 years ago, scientists were convinced we were heading into an ice age. Now they're convinced we going to burn. I'm convinced if I had a nickel for every instance they are wrong, I'd be a billionaire - many times over.
The earth has warmed and cooled many times and will continue to do so. Why it's doing whatever it's doing now, is not known. I don't care if scientists do have a consensus on this. Time will prove that they don't know what they're talking about. It always does. This thing we call earth is far too complex to figure out that easily.
Anyone who believes otherwise, I'd be happy to sell you some carbon-credits, so you can do your part to correct it.
The earth has warmed and cooled many times and will continue to do so. Why it's doing whatever it's doing now, is not known. I don't care if scientists do have a consensus on this. Time will prove that they don't know what they're talking about. It always does. This thing we call earth is far too complex to figure out that easily.
Anyone who believes otherwise, I'd be happy to sell you some carbon-credits, so you can do your part to correct it.
04-22-07 | 10:26 AM
#193
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Uncle.
04-22-07 | 07:32 PM
#195
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shhhhhhhh
Kansas City MO is going to build some Bicycle trails because of Gobal Warming.
Kansas City MO is going to build some Bicycle trails because of Gobal Warming.
__________________
Enjoy the ride.
Bianchi Volpe 2006; Fuji Tahoe 1990
Enjoy the ride.
Bianchi Volpe 2006; Fuji Tahoe 1990
04-23-07 | 05:58 PM
#196
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Originally Posted by RockyMtnMerlin
Why can't we have it both ways? Develope the technology to reduce greenhouse gases (and other assoicated pollutants) here in the good ol' USA and SELL them to other countries. Heck, just pitch it to the Chinese to reduce pollutants before the 2008 Beijing Olympics and if you have the right idea you could make a fortune. Even if you are wrong you still might make money.
"The facts are that the supporter (sic) such as China, India, Russia few other countries are producing almost same amount of CO2 per capita as USA...." is also poppycock. The TOTAL emissions are approaching that of the USA but the per capita emission are miniscule compared to the USA (about 1/10th in the case of China and about 1/20th in case of India).
Even if you are wrong you still might make money
And yes I know that arguing total emission vs per capita emission may be a moot point.
I have tried to be tactful in my responses to posts in this thread, but your post is poppycock.
It is legitimate scientific research that may determine the fate of future generations
Make sure you are absolutely certain that the reseach paper you read PERSONALLY are legitimate. At least the abstact of the reseach paper that you have read. Giving you all the benefits of doubt Chalk this one down for TAWL.
So we have 2 for, 1 against and 2 neutral on TAWL & 1 N/A OUI, NONE?
There is still hope
04-23-07 | 06:39 PM
#197
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Mars?
Originally Posted by RockyMtnMerlin
FWIW this from Australia on the the 19th. -- “Australia has warned that it will have to switch off the water supply to the continent’s food bowl unless heavy rains break an epic drought - heralding what could be the first climate change-driven disaster to strike a developed nation.”
The Prime Minister, John Howard, a hardened climate-change sceptic, delivered dire tidings to the nation’s farmers yesterday. Unless there is significant rainfall in the next six to eight weeks, irrigation will be banned in the principal agricultural area. Crops such as rice, cotton and wine grapes will fail, citrus, olive and almond trees will die, along with livestock.
A ban on irrigation, which would remain in place until May next year, spells possible ruin for thousands of farmers, already debt-laden and in despair after six straight years of drought.
Australia is the only major industrialized country other than the U.S. to reject the Kyoto Protocol.
The Prime Minister, John Howard, a hardened climate-change sceptic, delivered dire tidings to the nation’s farmers yesterday. Unless there is significant rainfall in the next six to eight weeks, irrigation will be banned in the principal agricultural area. Crops such as rice, cotton and wine grapes will fail, citrus, olive and almond trees will die, along with livestock.
A ban on irrigation, which would remain in place until May next year, spells possible ruin for thousands of farmers, already debt-laden and in despair after six straight years of drought.
Australia is the only major industrialized country other than the U.S. to reject the Kyoto Protocol.
Somewhere on the net, I read recently that the polar ice caps (carbon dioxide?) on Mars is melting. That would mean that global warming is not caused by human activity. Also that the warming amounts to somewhat less than one degree average since 1900. I'm sure someone better at net search could find this better than I.
04-23-07 | 07:03 PM
#198
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Originally Posted by wubrew
No you can not have it both ways! Your hypocricy slip is showing. If you believe the CO2 is the doom's day precursor than you must sacrifice everything to halt the process. Chalk this one up for TAWL
As you freely admit that we are the #1 producer of CO2, and TAWL inherently causes this, you must than give up TAWL completely. We all know the use of fossil fuel is the #1 culprit of increasing [CO2], will you then propose the cessation of fossil fuel? Or slowly ease into the usage of alternative energy with the economic and geo politics of fossil fuel <sic> petroleum, <sic> crude oil, <sic> gulf states as guidance. Scary eh! For your conscience's sake. let's Chalk this one as neutral for TAWL.
Being a capitalist as your last statement suggest if you have the right idea you could make a fortune, then the idea of promoting global warming to profit financially is outright opportunistic. Brother,Chalk this one up for TAWL
It may seems that way at first glance, if you will not take the impact of deforestation, overpopulation, warfare, poverty etc into consideration. We may be producer of the major quantity of CO2. However if you factor efficiency, and productivity into the equation that will really make your argument moot. One produce as much waste working or not working. Neutral for this one on TAWL?
Not applicable to TAWL? Sure reflect the restraint consistent with TAWL to me.
.
Make sure you are absolutely certain that the reseach paper you read PERSONALLY are legitimate. At least the abstact of the reseach paper that you have read. Giving you all the benefits of doubt Chalk this one down for TAWL.
So we have 2 for, 1 against and 2 neutral on TAWL & 1 N/A OUI, NONE?
There is still hope
As you freely admit that we are the #1 producer of CO2, and TAWL inherently causes this, you must than give up TAWL completely. We all know the use of fossil fuel is the #1 culprit of increasing [CO2], will you then propose the cessation of fossil fuel? Or slowly ease into the usage of alternative energy with the economic and geo politics of fossil fuel <sic> petroleum, <sic> crude oil, <sic> gulf states as guidance. Scary eh! For your conscience's sake. let's Chalk this one as neutral for TAWL.
Being a capitalist as your last statement suggest if you have the right idea you could make a fortune, then the idea of promoting global warming to profit financially is outright opportunistic. Brother,Chalk this one up for TAWL
It may seems that way at first glance, if you will not take the impact of deforestation, overpopulation, warfare, poverty etc into consideration. We may be producer of the major quantity of CO2. However if you factor efficiency, and productivity into the equation that will really make your argument moot. One produce as much waste working or not working. Neutral for this one on TAWL?
Not applicable to TAWL? Sure reflect the restraint consistent with TAWL to me.
.
Make sure you are absolutely certain that the reseach paper you read PERSONALLY are legitimate. At least the abstact of the reseach paper that you have read. Giving you all the benefits of doubt Chalk this one down for TAWL.
So we have 2 for, 1 against and 2 neutral on TAWL & 1 N/A OUI, NONE?
There is still hope
---- Make that a beer with as little CO2 as possible.
04-23-07 | 07:04 PM
#199
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Originally Posted by longsjl
Isn't that part of Australia once a desert?
Somewhere on the net, I read recently that the polar ice caps (carbon dioxide?) on Mars is melting. That would mean that global warming is not caused by human activity. Also that the warming amounts to somewhat less than one degree average since 1900. I'm sure someone better at net search could find this better than I.
Somewhere on the net, I read recently that the polar ice caps (carbon dioxide?) on Mars is melting. That would mean that global warming is not caused by human activity. Also that the warming amounts to somewhat less than one degree average since 1900. I'm sure someone better at net search could find this better than I.
ing Uncle, Uncle, Uncle, Uncle.
04-24-07 | 02:27 PM
#200
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