Clipless pedals add about two percent
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I think there is more to it than numbers or actual power output. Clipless pedals give me the ability to spin for hours without thinking about it, whether standing or pulling up or trying to spin out a cramp. I'd hate to try and do a long, hard ride with platform pedals and I used clips and straps years ago and they SUCK, especially when it's cold out.
#27
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Originally Posted by BluesDawg
Here's one for you...from a guy who managed to win 5 Tours de France and to become known as the greatest bicycle racer of all time - all without clipless pedals.
and it's on sale!
https://www.chicagolandbicycle.com/merckx_axm.htm
and it's on sale!
https://www.chicagolandbicycle.com/merckx_axm.htm
Holy cow, I remember I could buy a car for $200 and a suit for $80, the car was used of course, but the suit was LIKE new.
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A tour rider has to use every advantage. Even if the advantage is 0.3%, that would add up to a lot of minutes over a multi-stage event. So I don't think the fact that tour riders ride clipless really proves much to the typical cyclist.
It is difficult for a person to conduct a completely unbiased test. If someone has even a small, hidden desire for one result to be better, they could very easily work just a little bit harder, even if they don't consciously notice it. I've seen this effect many times in other product comparisons. This is why carefully controlled conditions must be established before any valid conclusions can be reached.
For example, I had a friend who fiercely believed in there being sonic differences between audio cables. He ran his own tests and scored nearly 100% in picking out which cable was which. But when I assisted him on the tests, and conducted a much better double-blind comparison, he scored 50% - which is the same as flipping a coin.
It is difficult for a person to conduct a completely unbiased test. If someone has even a small, hidden desire for one result to be better, they could very easily work just a little bit harder, even if they don't consciously notice it. I've seen this effect many times in other product comparisons. This is why carefully controlled conditions must be established before any valid conclusions can be reached.
For example, I had a friend who fiercely believed in there being sonic differences between audio cables. He ran his own tests and scored nearly 100% in picking out which cable was which. But when I assisted him on the tests, and conducted a much better double-blind comparison, he scored 50% - which is the same as flipping a coin.
#29
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Originally Posted by BSLeVan
Yeah, but he was riding against other guys without clipless pedals. I hate to say it, and there is not way to really prove it, but I suspect that even in his prime he would have had a hard time with some of today's riders if they were using modern equipment and he was using the stuff of his time. I really believe that even riders of his era used the best equipment they could get their hands on.
#30
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Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil
That's a nice bike, but only a small step up from where he is now.
George needs to make the BIG commitment and go to a new Madone or Specialized S-Works road bike! Or maybe a custom-fitted bike.
No small steps this time George!
George needs to make the BIG commitment and go to a new Madone or Specialized S-Works road bike! Or maybe a custom-fitted bike.
No small steps this time George!
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Originally Posted by JanMM
If you wore "sneakers" with toe clips, then your experiment was set up a little bit flawed. You want to compare the difference between the two pedal systems, but you threw in the shoe variable, too, if you didn't wear bicycling shoes using both pedals.
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For me, over hundreds of rides on the same courses, it's zero. I've done the same 24-mile commute and some other regular loops since 1979, on several bikes. In recent years I've alternated among old-school pedals with toe clips, platforms without clips, Power Grips and two different clipless systems, and there's NO difference I can measure.
The ride to work takes within a minute of 44 minutes, assuming I don't hit lights or traffic, and the ride home (uphill and often into a stiff wind) takes about 55 minutes. I don't keep detailed logs anymore, but I did for years, and pedals/clips/shoes made no consistent difference at all. My fastest ride from work to home was on an old Trek tourer I'd made into a singlespeed and rode with Power Grips and athletic shoes, probably because I had to work harder than usual on the hills to keep from losing momentum.
The ride to work takes within a minute of 44 minutes, assuming I don't hit lights or traffic, and the ride home (uphill and often into a stiff wind) takes about 55 minutes. I don't keep detailed logs anymore, but I did for years, and pedals/clips/shoes made no consistent difference at all. My fastest ride from work to home was on an old Trek tourer I'd made into a singlespeed and rode with Power Grips and athletic shoes, probably because I had to work harder than usual on the hills to keep from losing momentum.
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Originally Posted by gfspencer
I'm with ctyler. I don't know and I don't care. I started riding clipless in 1993. Riding with a platform (or toe clip) pedal just doesn't seem right.
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I don't care about the power. I just find clipless a lot more comfortable!
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I discovered on last year's summer tour that I was faster with clipless. It's anecdotal, but I wasn't intentionally doing an experiment (which I believe makes the results more believable). I was on a recumbent and a little unfamiliar with the new riding style so, for two straight days I rode the morning unclipped (platform side of campus pedals) and the afternoon snapped in. On the second day I realized that on both days I was with the leaders when snapped in, and lagging behind somewhat when on the platforms. (It's SO scientific, how can you argue?)
But the other effect it had -- I found I had to adjust the clips well back on the shoe to feel comfortable on the "bent". And now that I'm back on a regular bike, ..I kinda like the rear position of the clips.
But the other effect it had -- I found I had to adjust the clips well back on the shoe to feel comfortable on the "bent". And now that I'm back on a regular bike, ..I kinda like the rear position of the clips.
#36
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Well your feet slip around alot less and that's a nice feeling especially as you begin to get tired...
I'd like to try just the strap and see what that's like.
I've only used the Shimano spd's but recently someone donated some Time Atac pedals and cleats I've yet to try them...just put them on some shoes...
I'd like to try just the strap and see what that's like.
I've only used the Shimano spd's but recently someone donated some Time Atac pedals and cleats I've yet to try them...just put them on some shoes...
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For me it is a lot easier getting in an out of clipless pedals than it ever was using toe clips
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I have the cage and I wear street shoes. I don't like the feeling that I can't get my feet far enough into the cage as I would like to get the pressure farther back than the ball of my foot. I would like to switch, but that would mean buying new shoes as well as pedals. When I look at the large number of bicycle shoes on the market and the wide price range, i am completely baffled. If you were going to buy clipless pedals and shoes now what would your choice based on a compomise between price and performance.
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I like the products from Crank Bros. Both my wife and I use their Candy pedals. They are two sided with a small platform and very easy to clip in/out of. I have a pair of Specialized semi-mountain bike shoes (no lugged sole but the cleats are resessed), comfortable and easy to walk in. You can get the Crank Bros Smarty pedals for less than $50 and I think my shoes were around $60. My wife wears an inexpensive Lake shoe that she likes very much.
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Originally Posted by dbg
for two straight days I rode the morning unclipped (platform side of campus pedals) and the afternoon snapped in. On the second day I realized that on both days I was with the leaders when snapped in, and lagging behind somewhat when on the platforms.
Larry
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I've never seen any test results comparing platform to clipless on a recumbent. That could be different than an upright. So what dbg is reporting from his experience on a 'bent can't be transferred to what one might realize on an upright bike.
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I done have any percents but I do feel the extra power when I actually think about using an upstroke. I'm new to clipless so I don't fully utilize the benefits and only do so when I'm getting bogged down in sand or mud or something. That extra little pull-up really drive me forward.
But (and maybe it's only me) I have to concentrate a little to use them effectively. Maybe it's just a matter of time and practice.
But (and maybe it's only me) I have to concentrate a little to use them effectively. Maybe it's just a matter of time and practice.
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I find clipless/spd to be easier to use and more comfortable than toe clips. Can't quantify qualitative data.
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I am a total rookie and only have experience with platform pedals and SPD's. SPD's sure seem to be a lot better to me.
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Originally Posted by big john
I think there is more to it than numbers or actual power output. Clipless pedals give me the ability to spin for hours without thinking about it, whether standing or pulling up or trying to spin out a cramp. I'd hate to try and do a long, hard ride with platform pedals and I used clips and straps years ago and they SUCK, especially when it's cold out.
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Here's a statistic: I have had a total of 0 pedal tatoos on my shins since I started riding clipless.
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In the FWIW category, here's a link to an Arnie Baker article that takes on a lot of claims on cycling & performance. Baker is a famous cycling coach, M.D., and the author of many books on cycling.
https://www.arniebakercycling.com/resume.htm
https://www.arniebakercycling.com/pub...nce%201999.pdf
It contains this comment about pedals:
"Almost all racers now use clipless pedals for
comfort. A study this year found them not to
offer any physiologic performance advantage
over toeclips and straps."
https://www.arniebakercycling.com/resume.htm
https://www.arniebakercycling.com/pub...nce%201999.pdf
It contains this comment about pedals:
"Almost all racers now use clipless pedals for
comfort. A study this year found them not to
offer any physiologic performance advantage
over toeclips and straps."
#48
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Originally Posted by WillisB
I don't care about the power. I just find clipless a lot more comfortable!
#49
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Yes it is a 1999 article. But I understand the test included Shimano SPDs, as those came out in 1993 and they had the Dura Ace 7700 SPDs out by 1998. The Look road pedals first came out in the mid-80s and there were many variations around by '99.
I'm not pretending to be an expert on this subject, merely passing along what I find. Perhaps there have been some significant improvements since the Dura Ace 7700s that I know nothing about. But they sure look like high quality clipless pedals to me.
As stated previously, clipless may offer somewhat more of an advantage to top flight racers, who have trained to use every advantage, than what they do for someone who is commuting or on a group ride of 50 miles, even if those riders are riding at a good pace.
What I find of interest is that most on-line bike shops promote clipless as offering 20% efficiency gains and we are debating whether they offer as much as a 2% gain.
I'm not pretending to be an expert on this subject, merely passing along what I find. Perhaps there have been some significant improvements since the Dura Ace 7700s that I know nothing about. But they sure look like high quality clipless pedals to me.
As stated previously, clipless may offer somewhat more of an advantage to top flight racers, who have trained to use every advantage, than what they do for someone who is commuting or on a group ride of 50 miles, even if those riders are riding at a good pace.
What I find of interest is that most on-line bike shops promote clipless as offering 20% efficiency gains and we are debating whether they offer as much as a 2% gain.
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I went from averaging about 14 mph to averaging about 15 mph (7% increase) after changing from sneakers and strapless toe clips to mountain shoes and clipless pedals. Was that all due to the clipless pedals? Maybe not. Am I going to go back to my old setup long enough to find out if my average speed drops? Not on your life!
Last edited by waffenschmidt; 06-22-07 at 07:07 AM.