Litespeedlouie

LOL! Recording-speak for the ability to rerecord tracks while adding more material or remixing.

Seriously, for a first project, it's probably worth the expense to hire someone, unless you want to invest in a few thousand dollars worth of gear and learn how to use it. You can observe how the process goes and decide if doing it yourself seems feasible to you.

Your first studio's response is reasonable, although I would certainly ask several. For sure try for references of satisfied clients and examples of similar projects you can listen to. A given engineer may want to make you sound like Britney Spears.

Agreed your group's preparation is important for keeping cost down. It's a dream if a group can do 2-3 takes of each number, which one final can be edited from.

DnvrFox

Thanks again for all the fine input!! It is extremely helpful. I feel like a newbie bike rider, just learning.

Neil_B

A 'room' such as Orchestra Hall in Chicago prior to 'improvements' made in the 60s. Some of the earliest stereo recordings were of Fritz Reiner and the Chicago Symphony, and they remain some of the best sounding ones, despite the passage of five decades. Listen to Reiner/CSO's recordings of Richard Strauss's Ein Heldenleben and Modeste Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition to hear what three mikes can capture.

BigBlueToe

I'm the "bouncing tracks" guy. The ability to record every part individually allows lots of leeway. You can set the EQ, the effects (reverb, compression), and the volume for each voice, and if you don't get it exactly right you can adjust in the mixdown. It's pretty typical today for engineers to record each drum in a drum set individually. They usually use two or more mics of different types to mic one acoustic guitar, and mix the tracks to taste.

I play several different instruments. When I was in college I'd record myself using two reel-to-reel tape recorders (which were common in those days and fairly inexpensive). I'd record a piano track on one recorder, then play it back and play along on guitar while recording on the second recorder. Then play that back and add something else (voice?) on the first recorder. It worked okay, though you couldn't go back and fix something on an early track, once you had "bounced" it. Also, analog taping always included some hiss, and it would build up with each generation - each "bounce". I usually only got to about 4 times bouncing before I'd either give up from lack of motivation or because the hiss got too bad. It was fun for experiments, but no way to record anything of quality.

Then TEAC came out with reel-to-reel recorders with "Simul-sync". That meant you could set one channel (of a stereo signal) to play while the other recorded. You could bounce back and forth on the two channels of a stereo recorder. It was handier than trying to wire and control two recorders at once, but you still had a problem with hiss. Dolby helped reduce the hiss, but you couldn't eliminate it. Still, a buddy of mine bought one of these and we used it a lot. We thought it was awfully slick!

Much later companies like Tascam came out with 4 track recorders that used cassettes. You could record 4 discrete tracks with no bouncing! If you wanted to bounce you could get more tracks with less bouncing: record three tracks, then bounce them all to the fourth, freeing up three tracks for more recording. If you wanted you could record two tracks, bounce them to the third (giving you five recorded tracks) and still have two tracks left! Of course, the signal quality on cassette tape wasn't great, but for a hobbyist like me (who had previously done the two tape recorder thing) these little decks were pretty cool!

Many years later I bought the previously mentioned Tascam 788. It records digitally, which means there's never any hiss introduced in the recording process. You can record a track and bounce it repeatedly, and never suffer from hiss buildup. It sounds the same after 12 bounces as it did the first time. It has 250 "virtual tracks." That means you can record something - like a sax solo - then record it again, and again, and again. You can listen to all the tracks and choose the best one for your final mix. The limitation is that you can only mix a maximum of 8 tracks for your final mix - so from all the 250 available virtual tracks, you have to choose 8.

Of course, you can do the bouncing thing. You can record 7 individual tracks, then mix them onto an eighth track - "bounce" them - and then all 7 of the original tracks are contained on one track and you have 7 available tracks for recording more. And you don't lose any signal quality. And if you don't like the mix on your first bounce, you can do it again on another track (a "virtual track") and keep doing it until you get the one you like.

It gets pretty convoluted, but it's incredible to have these capabilities when you started with the two reel-to-reel method.

Of course, like anything else in this digital age, if you wait a couple of years your equipment will be completely out of date. Like I said, Tascam now has a 24 track digital machine for less than my 8 track cost 5 years ago. And the equipment available for recording using your home computer makes stand-alone recorders pretty obsolete. You can get virtually unlimited numbers of tracks, with amazing effects, and there are versions available at a price that hobbyists can afford.

Indeed, most professionals are moving towards recording on computers using software like ProTools.

So if you like technology and want to learn something fun, you might be able to record your own CD without putting out much money.

But to be honest, none of my "homemade" recordings have the same quality as a professional job. Mixing and mastering are arts which I need lots of work in. I'm plenty happy with them, and the kids in my choir (and their parents) are more than satisfied, but still..... If you can afford to hire a professional, that might be the way to go.

It's kind of funny to be talking about all this on a bicycling forum, huh? But that's kind of why I like the 50+ forum so much. People here seem less worried about things like this.

BengeBoy 

If you really want to get into the music biz, you need to get past this recording/making-music phase of your career as quickly as possible. You'll need to invest most of your time working on the video, the lighting set up for the concert tour, your on-stage dance moves, and the PR campaign.

For that, you need a publicity agent who will make you *look* like Britney Spears.

DnvrFox

Thanks BigBlueToe for all the great info!!

Learning some of the very basics about thiis is fun and interesting.

And, when it all comes down to it, once you get a CD made, you can listen to it while you are BICYCLING!!

DnvrFox

I can see it now!!

Special DVD for old people. Watch and listen as the XY Zingers stand perfectly still as they entertain you with several renditions of Amazing Grace and Down to the River to Pray.

I think that will be a big seller!!

Are you volunteering for "publicity" agent?

BigBlueToe

Here's a 788 on Ebay. I"m not recommending you buy it or anything, but it does have some interesting information. And here's a deal that includes the CD player/burner. (You need to have an SCSI one so you can't just go into a BestBuy and buy the cheapest one they have.) Here's the 24-track version.

I would have killed for any of these in 1970!

Neil_B

I'll settle for one who can make me look like a cyclist.

DnvrFox

Yes, I saw that the other day. Not much interest by bidders!

I think we need someone who has at least a clue about what they are doing. Got an offer of $300 from a person - haven't got references yet, but have requested a phone call.

https://www.straightlineproductionsdenver.com

MNBikeguy

I've read somewhere that many famous musicians do their recordings in Montserrat.
After your group finishes recording, you can get on the mountain bikes!

https://www.caribbean.com/jsp/maps.js...Destination=25

Garfield Cat

I know nothing about recording. I am a music lover and you mentioned A Capella. Why don't you just contact other A Capella groups and get their input?

Primarily A Capella has a web site. Its all A Capella with different genres.

www.singers.com

When you get there, explore the various groups. The CD that I recently bought is actually a collection of Praise songs. The group is called Eclipse. The production company is called Shadow Mountain Records out of Utah. 800 534-1515.

It's nice that you're getting advice on recording, but don't you need to know more than that?

DnvrFox

Thanks for the input and the site. Much appreciated.

cllvt

DnvrFox,

Interesting topic. I don't know a lot about recording, but my wife and I go to a lot of Coffee House type music events with lots of singer/songwriter types. We often buy CD's the artists have for sale. One can usually listen to the "early" cds of an artist (which are usually done themselves or by a friend with a computer, or recording set-up at low cost) and listen to more recent recordings professionally done, and the difference is huge. The difference is usually not in the skills of the artist, it's in the recording - but I have to say that the poorly produced ones usually get a "once through" and sit in the CD rack, collecting dust. I know there are exceptions, but there is a lot to know about recording (my brother in-law has a studio, and could talk for days about why to do this, or not that, or why this is best done that way, etc.). There is a reason that these folks make their living at recording, it's an art and a science, and can take many years to be REALLY good at it.

In my mind, you need to ask yourself some questions. What is our budget? What do we need/want for quality? If you just want to give a CD a "shot", and record your voices at a point in time, I am sure you can do it cheap. If you want something that records accurately the group, sounds full, captures the spirit, etc. and something folks will actually listen to repeatedly, it's probably going to cost you a little more. I would figure out what you are looking for, and then stop by the local music store, talk to the guys that work there, and check out the ads on their bulletin board. Talk to a couple places about your budget, and what you are looking for as far as a product. I bet it will work out just great. Keep us informed, eh? There are places you can put tracks as someone mentioned for free too, give us a listen.

Chris