Not been doing many rides over the winter on the road bikes and those that have been done- have been on Boreas. A lightweight Al frame that was built up to be light but also with economy in mind. Mainly Ultegra- including the wheels and it rides fine--Very fine.

But I finally have the TCR back off loan and sunday was spent cleaning -lubing and checking it over for Mondays ride. Both bikes are set up the same except the bars on Boreas are 2" lower. Same Frame geometry on the two- and set up is the same. So I expected the TCR to give as good a ride as Boreas. It didn't. Got home and checked out the setup and only the bars different. Changed over to the Ultegra wheels and went for another ride and no different. Can't really put my finger on the different rides- but the TCR felt slower- was sluggich on acceleration and didn't give a comfortable ride.

So final Change to make- Lower the bars on the TCR to the same as on Boreas. Easy enough as spacers under the bar stem were put on top of the stem and bars at the same height. What a difference. The TCR now works.

Lowering the bar must be putting the body into the correct position for my body to work. I have always said that a longer laid out position helps the back (well ever since I adjusted to it) but I never expected it to change the ride characteristics and efficiency to that extent.

Considering as How I only changed to road 4 years ago after 16 years on MTB's- I am surprised how my body has adapted to road riding. 4 years ago and I had to have the bars set-up to the same height as the saddle and I still could not use the drop position for more than 20 seconds without severe pain coming in the lower back. A year later and The LBS set up Boreas with the bars way too low- or so I thought- but it was OK. The TCR was bought to give me a decent bike to ride as a second bike but it took a long time to get it to settle down. Looks as though I am finally getting it sorted.

So Up in the hills up North of where I live tomorrow- To see if it is as Comfortable as I think it is.

Yep.

Small shifts in weight distribution can have a tremendous impact on the handling of a bike. Glad you're going to have two road bikes that are satisfying. Experimentation can surely pay off.

Hmmmm... I may try lowering the bars on one of my steeds. With more and more riding experience, I've been very slowly going down with bars anyway, so a more significant lowering might be timely. Experiments are a good thing.

I finally had my bike professionally fit to me. I thought I had followed all the traditional rules when setting up Lapierre in the first place but after setting between red laser lights and devices to measure my knee bend and shims placed on my shoes I found out I was way off. My sadle was too low and too far back and my stem was too long. I thought I had it set up exactly like I had on my Jamis but it seems as if the rest of the diamond is different so a simple tape measure isn't enough. At least it wasn't for me.

For me, a lower bar feels much better if I'm actually riding with some effort. The same setup is less comfortable just noodling around, a higher bar would feel better. So I've come to the opinion that for riding harder a lower bar is better, at least for me. Maybe that's why a higher setup feels better in the winter when I'm just cruising, working on base endurance and why I always lower the bar as the season progresses.

Lowering the bars has worked. Todays ride was only 30 miles but some flat- some short sharp steep rises and a few bits where gravity took over. I do not get into the drops much on the flats unless a headwind is there but tried it and 5 minutes later and I still felt comfortable. Climbing and I always do this on the hoods- much as most of my riding and it definitely felt better. Had to get out of the saddle on a few 20% bits and no problem. Did try the flats intentionallyon one longer hill but soon found I was pushing forward onto the Hoods but that is my style. Downhill and in the drops for most of them so I can fully cover the brakes.

So it might be that I prefer riding with my head between my knees- or it could be as Bike WNC says- The lower position puts me in the frame of mind to work. And come to think of it- This bike was bought in December- for winter riding and mainly has been used in winter and foul weather. Now I want to use it whem the weather is kinder- I want it set up for a bit more speed- and the effort I feel like putting in.

This is the only real problem with threadless stems, you can't raise and lower then bars without taking it all apart, and hoping some idiot didn't cut the steerer off too short.

Thats why stems with various Rise are made- and they can be reversed and --(This is down to the original Racer that built up the bike)--provided the mechanic who assembled the bike had enough sense to leave the steerer long and fit spacers. I struck lucky with Boreas as the stem is cut for Race fit- the lowesat possible. This did prove to be the right height for me that I have tried to emulate on the TCR.

After having had bikes for many years- For me any any stem will be right- providing it is at the correct height. Whether that be a quill stem or a threadless. Getting that right stem is the problem unless you know what you want.

The way the forward reach was explained to me years ago: Sit down in an armchair and get relaxed. Now, stand up without using the arm rests. You find that it is way easier if you lean your upper body forward. Now translate that getting up position to your bike. You find that things work better with a lower bar, as far as applying power to the pedals. Once again:

- you set the bar height so it's comfortable when you're on the tops or on the brake hoods
- it's supposed to be uncomfortable when you're in the drops, at least at first. This is more of a power position, not the default comfort position, but too many novices look at a drop bar and just assume they're supposed to be in the drops. No, no, no!
- look, if you set the bars to be level with the saddle, and get into the drops, guess what? Your hands are now at the same level as if the bar were set about 3" lower than the saddle and your hands were on the tops! But now you have access to a more aero "power position" in the drops that you can use if you want!
- a properly-positioned bar height also puts you into a good position when you are out of the saddle (with hands on brake levers, the standard climbing-out-of-saddle position) - not too far back, and far enough forward that you can exert full body weight on the pedals for the range of grade possible to climb (say 5% to 18%?) without your knees hitting the bars.

Yes, the low bar is a position that comes from racing, but it works just fine for guys who spend 6 hours and 200 to 250 km in the saddle on a daily basis. If having the bars level with the saddle worked, you'd see racers setting up their bikes this way.I'm not aware of any racers who do.

Luis