Cycle Helmets
08-29-10 | 03:40 PM
#51
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These questions almost always bring out the debate gene in all of us. I also agree you have a right to take the risk of not wearing a helmet. There is nothing magic about a helmet and it may not save your life. But if you read the many posts here of people who have been riding for quite some time and even with that much experience still managed to crash and take a goodly portion out of a perfectly good helmet you can see it could at the very least save you some cosmetic damage to your head.
The real question would be why wouldn't someone wear a helmet? You don't have to have a real expensive one so it isn't cost. If it provided "any" protection to keep you from losing part of your skin or hair it would seem like it is worth it. When you get that slow leak that causes your tire to roll off the rim in a corner and you slide even six feet on pavement just think of sand paper sliding on your head and what it would do. Pavement is much courser than sand paper.
No reason to add my stories about pace line crashes and just plain falls. Lets just say if I am going to fall, and if you ride you will fall, I would rather have something between me and my sliding head that sun tan lotion.
The real question would be why wouldn't someone wear a helmet? You don't have to have a real expensive one so it isn't cost. If it provided "any" protection to keep you from losing part of your skin or hair it would seem like it is worth it. When you get that slow leak that causes your tire to roll off the rim in a corner and you slide even six feet on pavement just think of sand paper sliding on your head and what it would do. Pavement is much courser than sand paper.
No reason to add my stories about pace line crashes and just plain falls. Lets just say if I am going to fall, and if you ride you will fall, I would rather have something between me and my sliding head that sun tan lotion.
08-29-10 | 04:09 PM
#52
I need speed
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The source of my most recent fall, and the second time in a year someone was asking "Are you okay?" It can happen so fast you are down before you can think of doing anything. Fortunately for me, on this one it was only an elbow and a leg.
08-29-10 | 04:13 PM
#53
Thank you. That's thought provoking. I haven't entirely decided not to wear one. I am just tootling around my local small Victorian Park at the moment. There is nowhere for anything to come out of the blue there and (having only just learned to pedal), I don't have the bottle to ride down hill yet 
Someone asked if it occurred to me that posters here all have a lot of cycling experience. I do get that and I am listening. I still don't think I need a helmet for the tootling, but I am open to taking account of others' reasonably presented views and I may well decide to wear one when I venture further.
As I said before, I'm mulling it over.
Someone asked if it occurred to me that posters here all have a lot of cycling experience. I do get that and I am listening. I still don't think I need a helmet for the tootling, but I am open to taking account of others' reasonably presented views and I may well decide to wear one when I venture further.As I said before, I'm mulling it over.
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08-29-10 | 04:59 PM
#54
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Thank you. That's thought provoking. I haven't entirely decided not to wear one. I am just tootling around my local small Victorian Park at the moment. There is nowhere for anything to come out of the blue there and (having only just learned to pedal), I don't have the bottle to ride down hill yet Someone asked if it occurred to me that posters here all have a lot of cycling experience. I do get that and I am listening. I still don't think I need a helmet for the tootling, but I am open to taking account of others' reasonably presented views and I may well decide to wear one when I venture further.
Someone asked if it occurred to me that posters here all have a lot of cycling experience. I do get that and I am listening. I still don't think I need a helmet for the tootling, but I am open to taking account of others' reasonably presented views and I may well decide to wear one when I venture further.
08-29-10 | 05:08 PM
#55
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From: 5200' Boulder, CO Area
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Early this summer (April & June), I had two, low speed crashes that several posters have said really aren't a problem. Both resulted in broken helmets (energy absorbed), concussions and hospital visits. I was out on my feet 15 min. the first time, and 5 hours the second time. I could have died from either one.
When and if I get back on a bike, I'll continue to wear a helmet, as I've done since the 70's. For me, there is not now, nor has there ever been, a "debate" regarding use of helmets when cycling.
I've been riding around 5,000 mi/yr the last few years, did a sub-5 hr. 100 miles last summer, and can climb anything. Both helmets were LAS Squalos, and both cracked at the right temple. For good information on helmets, see https://www.bhsi.org/helmet10.htm
08-29-10 | 05:57 PM
#56
Old Fart Racing
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I'm with Robert Foster on this one...I don't understand the big objection to wearing one. Helmet hair? Looks? I just don't get it...in my opinion either wear one or don't. There are plenty of examples here that show it was beneficial and no examples that it made things worse...and there may even be some that chose not to wear one that are no longer posting here...we just don't know.
08-29-10 | 06:05 PM
#58
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08-29-10 | 07:53 PM
#59
rebmeM roineS
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From: Metro Indy, IN
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Okay Guys, let me first say that I am a newbie to the Forum and a complete beginner to cycling (like I can't ride a straight line yet!). I have seen a reasonable number of brain injured individuals in my time, although I don't specilise in Neuro. I have also ridden horses and would under no circumstances get on the the back of one, even with the intention of me and the horse just standing still, without a riding hat. I am very protective of my brain.
All that said, at the risk of triggering WW3 (having seen another thread discussing this topic from a different angle), I am mulling over the whole cycling helmet debate. I have read the following and found it thought provoking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_helmet Even before reading that, I had decided that cycling away from traffic does not, for me, require use of a helmet. If and when (last week I'm afraid it was when) I fall from a bike, it will be a fall from more or less my own height sideways at a low speed. Even as I get faster, I doubt it would be merrited. I think if I venture onto roads, I will probably wear one as a car hitting a bike, can after all, propell the rider through the air and, in so doing, produce a very different type of impact. I'm not sure about racing if not in traffic. I am very unlikely to ever want to do that, so I probably will never need to decide about it.
Anyway, I am interested in the considered, mutually respected opinions of other. Any takers?
All that said, at the risk of triggering WW3 (having seen another thread discussing this topic from a different angle), I am mulling over the whole cycling helmet debate. I have read the following and found it thought provoking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_helmet Even before reading that, I had decided that cycling away from traffic does not, for me, require use of a helmet. If and when (last week I'm afraid it was when) I fall from a bike, it will be a fall from more or less my own height sideways at a low speed. Even as I get faster, I doubt it would be merrited. I think if I venture onto roads, I will probably wear one as a car hitting a bike, can after all, propell the rider through the air and, in so doing, produce a very different type of impact. I'm not sure about racing if not in traffic. I am very unlikely to ever want to do that, so I probably will never need to decide about it.
Anyway, I am interested in the considered, mutually respected opinions of other. Any takers?
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08-29-10 | 08:29 PM
#60
"Chooch"
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I can't think of any reason not to wear a helmet unless there is an extreme condition that would make wearing one while riding more dangerous than not wearing one. The situation that comes to mind is extreme temperatures/humidity in which wearing a helmet could contribute to heat stroke. I've come close to this riding in 100F+ heat in very humid south Louisiana and had to remove my helmet on at least one occasion to cool off. I replaced my helmet and continued after cooling down, but I'm wondering what presented the greatest probable danger under the circumstances: potential crash resulting in head injury or heat stroke?
08-29-10 | 08:32 PM
#61
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I'm with Robert Foster on this one...I don't understand the big objection to wearing one. Helmet hair? Looks? I just don't get it...in my opinion either wear one or don't. There are plenty of examples here that show it was beneficial and no examples that it made things worse...and there may even be some that chose not to wear one that are no longer posting here...we just don't know.
You never get helmet hair. But I on the other hand have to fluff up my fohawk when I take the cycling dew rag off.. 
08-29-10 | 08:55 PM
#62
Old Fart Racing
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08-29-10 | 09:18 PM
#63
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Can I hijack this thread? How about helmet mirrors? I mostly ride on roads and frequently in groups, so I greatly appreciate mine and I consider it to be in part a safety feature. But the other day a friend looked at my helmet/mirror setup and said, "But what if you fall? Won't the mirror go smashing into your face or eye?" And I thought, "oh" She could be right. The mirror is, of course, plastic, not glass, but in the wrong circumstances, it could make an unfortunate incident considerably worse....
08-29-10 | 09:37 PM
#64
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As an EMT and as a long-time cyclist , I've seen more bike related head injuries than I'd like to think about. The ones that really stick with me (because they are people I know or work with) are how serious some of the slow/fallover injuries can be. I really believe that most of the 8 or so "slow" type head injuries that I remember could have been prevented or at least the damge reduced by wearing a helmet. I think Dnvrfox makes a good point about some accidents that a helmet won't help, but I wouldn't ride without one.
08-30-10 | 05:51 AM
#65
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I'm honestly not looking for a fight. I originally posted a link the the debate on Wikipaedia. And whilst I accept that isn't a literature search, it sites many of the research papers and the points for an against. I was looking for a discussion of the pros and cons. I think if you take a look through some of the responsive you will see that some of them were indeed sarcastic and patronising. I raised the point about horses because there the issue is also about the risk of head injury and hard hats.
Thank you to those of you who, although taking issue with the idea of not wearing helmets, offered a reasoned response not characterised by sarcasm.
Thank you to those of you who, although taking issue with the idea of not wearing helmets, offered a reasoned response not characterised by sarcasm.
It is your decission on whether you wear a helmet or not. I' for one will always wear my hemet. They are not uncomfortable and do provide protection. You stated earlier you were a scientist. Well if so you should be aware that Wikipeadia is not a trusted site. Second in most of the posts you have written there are numerous grammatical and spelling errors. I wander if you are truly a scientist or if you are just trying to cause a stir here.
08-30-10 | 06:10 AM
#66
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For what it's worth regarding the last point, I am typing on an Ipad. It has an annoying habit of replacing what is typed with something else, often far from correct.
I'm not feeling very welcome here, so I guess we'll all be pleased if I just leave.
I'm not feeling very welcome here, so I guess we'll all be pleased if I just leave.
08-30-10 | 06:14 AM
#67
Old Fart Racing
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From: Draper UT
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Dude...you just threw a stink bomb in the church...you would be better off bring up politics.
08-30-10 | 06:37 AM
#68
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I realise that now - too late to save myself my being cast out as a troll pretending to be a scientist. Whatever folk think, I was not trying to start a war, just a chat about a subject that can't just be a chat!
Anyway, I'm off to friendlier climes. Like someone said, I'm probably too thin skinned!
I will just leave you with this literature review.
https://www.cyclehelmets.org/1052.html
Anyway, I'm off to friendlier climes. Like someone said, I'm probably too thin skinned!
I will just leave you with this literature review.
https://www.cyclehelmets.org/1052.html
08-30-10 | 06:40 AM
#69
Old Fart Racing
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08-30-10 | 09:07 AM
#70
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From: 5200' Boulder, CO Area
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Can I hijack this thread? How about helmet mirrors? I mostly ride on roads and frequently in groups, so I greatly appreciate mine and I consider it to be in part a safety feature. But the other day a friend looked at my helmet/mirror setup and said, "But what if you fall? Won't the mirror go smashing into your face or eye?" And I thought, "oh" She could be right. The mirror is, of course, plastic, not glass, but in the wrong circumstances, it could make an unfortunate incident considerably worse....
Rear view mirrors have the same supporters/detractors as helmets. If you wear one, you probably want one that's made from relatively soft plastic that velcros onto the side of your helmet. Wearing one that clips onto your glasses (like the wire one I used in the '70's), is probably a bad idea.
I really don't mind the well considered arguments for/against helmets. Having had two recent accidents, I'm looking for all of the useful information I can find regarding head safety.
Just one more thing regarding mirrors. As we age, the ability to quickly change eye focus diminishes. By the time you look into the mirror, make a judgement on the speed and position of a closing vehicle, and then look back at the road and readjust your focus, you may have missed something ahead of you. Riding in different areas of the country present different challenges, and mirrors may be a really good safety feature under some riding conditions.
PS : Can we keep the discussion going without the "I'm not, but you are" crap? I'd rather see potentially useful information posted than a locked thread. Thanks!
Last edited by Terex; 08-30-10 at 09:11 AM.
08-30-10 | 09:11 AM
#71
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From: Ohio
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Anybody over 50 years old who needs others to help him/her decide when/whether to wear a helmet or not...definitely needs to wear a helmet...even when not in traffic and perhaps even when not on a bike.
Sorry, but it had to be said. Do what you feel is best for you, not what you think other people want you to do.
For full disclosure sake, I have rarely worn a helmet over my 40ish continuous years of cycling in traffic.
Sorry, but it had to be said. Do what you feel is best for you, not what you think other people want you to do.
For full disclosure sake, I have rarely worn a helmet over my 40ish continuous years of cycling in traffic.
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"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
Last edited by chipcom; 08-30-10 at 09:15 AM.
08-30-10 | 10:20 AM
#72
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I tried to get a discussion going looking at the design of bicycle helmets. The only thing brought up about my post was my decision not to wear one. As a lifelong motorcyclist bicycle helmets remind me of 70's motorcycle helmets. They are better than no helmet at all but bicycle helmets could be better designed and made of better materials such as modern day composites. I read of the testing method using a slegehammer. How many cyclist are going to run into a slegehammer? The technology and the materials are available. With all the cyclist out there now why doesnt a major manufacturer produce a better helmet? I read about a couple of companies in Europe making composite helmets but some company should have one avalable in the US. A plastic helmet will protect your head from a blow but it causes neck injuries when it slides on asphalt. The present day helmet will probably work good for a mountain biker but I think its a poor product for the road cyclist.
08-30-10 | 10:31 AM
#73
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From: Uncertain
I tried to get a discussion going looking at the design of bicycle helmets. The only thing brought up about my post was my decision not to wear one. As a lifelong motorcyclist bicycle helmets remind me of 70's motorcycle helmets. They are better than no helmet at all but bicycle helmets could be better designed and made of better materials such as modern day composites. I read of the testing method using a slegehammer. How many cyclist are going to run into a slegehammer? The technology and the materials are available. With all the cyclist out there now why doesnt a major manufacturer produce a better helmet? I read about a couple of companies in Europe making composite helmets but some company should have one avalable in the US. A plastic helmet will protect your head from a blow but it causes neck injuries when it slides on asphalt. The present day helmet will probably work good for a mountain biker but I think its a poor product for the road cyclist.
As to bicycle helmet design, you are correct. In order to make helmets both as light and as profitable as possible, most manufacturers turn out products that meet only the minimum statutory standards, which are pitifully low. And there is little or no useful correlation between the price of helmets and their usefulness in a crash. And neck injuries are not the biggest potential problem btw - it is rotation of the brain inside the skull, which may actually be exacerbated by wearing helmets as currently designed, that is the big issue if one is unlucky enough to have one's head connect with the ground or whatever....
I'm sure it would be possible to make a helmet that was both tolerable to wear and provided meaningful protection. But I'll bet it would be pricey. And the sort of cycling most people do is so low-risk as to not require any helmet at all.
08-30-10 | 10:45 AM
#74
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From: Uncertain
Those of you would want to take a patronising and sarcastic tone to telling others they are idiots if the don't do what you do. What is your real evidence (not anecdotal accounts of what you think might happen without a helmet) that wearing a helmet for the different types of riding significantly reduces risk?
In some ways this is not surprising. In the first place, cycling - ordinary cycling, just riding along, commuting etc. - is very safe. In the UK there is only one fatality per two million miles cycled. In the second place, the most usual cause for serious head injury among cyclists is collision with a motor vehicle - and even the manufacturers don't pretend that helmets will offer much protection in that scenario. Indeed, the incidence of head injury per mile travelled for cyclists is approximately the same as for pedestrians, and for the same reason - collision with a motor vehicle. So those who say there is a need to wear a helmet for cycling need to explain why they don't wear one while walking across the street. After all, there's no reason NOT to wear one, is there?
Promoting the idea that cycling is so dangerous an activity as to require protective clothing just discourages people from cycling. It isn't.
08-30-10 | 10:54 AM
#75
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You'll have difficulty getting a discussion going on this without it simply degenerating into namecalling. I am, apparently, a jackass, airhead, ****-for-brains know-nothing with no common sense for suggesting that people read the evidence about helmet use before deciding whether they are in fact essential - and, for that matter, before deciding whether cycling is in fact as dangerous a pastime as some of them seem to believe. It isn't, by the way.
As to bicycle helmet design, you are correct. In order to make helmets both as light and as profitable as possible, most manufacturers turn out products that meet only the minimum statutory standards, which are pitifully low. And there is little or no useful correlation between the price of helmets and their usefulness in a crash. And neck injuries are not the biggest potential problem btw - it is rotation of the brain inside the skull, which may actually be exacerbated by wearing helmets as currently designed, that is the big issue if one is unlucky enough to have one's head connect with the ground or whatever....
I'm sure it would be possible to make a helmet that was both tolerable to wear and provided meaningful protection. But I'll bet it would be pricey. And the sort of cycling most people do is so low-risk as to not require any helmet at all.
As to bicycle helmet design, you are correct. In order to make helmets both as light and as profitable as possible, most manufacturers turn out products that meet only the minimum statutory standards, which are pitifully low. And there is little or no useful correlation between the price of helmets and their usefulness in a crash. And neck injuries are not the biggest potential problem btw - it is rotation of the brain inside the skull, which may actually be exacerbated by wearing helmets as currently designed, that is the big issue if one is unlucky enough to have one's head connect with the ground or whatever....
I'm sure it would be possible to make a helmet that was both tolerable to wear and provided meaningful protection. But I'll bet it would be pricey. And the sort of cycling most people do is so low-risk as to not require any helmet at all.
With the national discussion on concussions, maybe more effective bicycle helmets will get some interest by manufacturers. And it's probably going to be a spin-off from companies that are involved in a full range of helmet technology (motorcycling, hockey, horseback riding, etc.).