Garilia

I'm not sure I understand enough about frame geometry to know the difference between something that is relaxed or more aggressive in terms of what to look for to narrow things down.

ThatBritBloke

My bad ... 10-speed ...

Barrettscv 

The best way to evaluate geometry in terms of relaxed or aggressive is to look at the head-tube angle, the wheelbase and the length of the chain-stays.

A relaxed geometry bike frame will have a smaller angle at the head-tube than a aggressive geometry bike in the same size frame. In other words, a 72 degree head tube-angle is more relaxed than a 74 degree head-tube angle, if the frame size is equivalent.

A longer wheelbase is more relaxed than a shorter wheelbase, if the frame size is equivalent.

A longer chain-stay is usually found on bike with a more relaxed geometry than the short chain-stays found on aggressive geometry bikes. A 410-420mm chain-stay is found on racing road bikes, a 425 to 435mm chain-stay is found on Cyclocross and sports touring bikes, and a 440mm or longer chain-stay is found on heavy touring bikes.

However, don't assume that the more relaxed bike geometry is automatically more comfortable than an aggressive geometry frame. An aggressive geometry bike can be made comfortable, if the bike fit is superior and if the frame compliance and wheel tire combination supports rider comfort.

irwin7638

If I wanted one bike to accommodate a range of different tires and activities, I would go with a Surly Cross Check. But I'm a bigger guy and like steel.

Marc

Garilia

Thanks for the info Barrettscv

irwin, steel is real. To paraphrase Pink Floyd, I love the feel of steel. I'm a small Clydesdale I guess. I'm 5'9" and about 225 lbs. (I've lost 50 pounds in the past 8 months). There's a part of me that wants a steel bike next, and then when I get down to my goal weight, reward myself with another bike ;-) I don't know if I can get the wife to buy into that plan, although if i prove to her I actually use the bikes, she'll be more relaxed about me having them. I was looking at the Cross-check, very interesting.

BD has a couple of steel bikes that would put me in the $1300-1500 price range.

Reynolds 853 tubing https://bikesdirect.com/products/merc..._serpensIX.htm

lugged Reynolds 725 https://bikesdirect.com/products/moto...premio_pro.htm

both bikes are equipped with Ultegra.

Garilia

apparently there aren't any Surly dealers for at least 200 miles from me. There used to be a Jamis dealer, but not any more. In the 7 LBS' I visited, I saw a lot of Trek (easily the most represented brand), Specialized, Cannondale, and Giant. I saw a few Scott's and Cervelo's. Now that I'm looking for road and not MTB, I'll obviously be paying more attention to the local inventory.

bobthib

Hence my recommendation to go to Racer's Edge and get fit before you start looking. You are far better off with a near custom fit frame with so-so components than just trying to weed thru the 100's of bike available, IMHO.

Garilia

Bob, I absolutely will get a fit done. I can see where a proper fit on a road bike is way more necessary than other bikes as you are prone to being on the bike for longer periods of time, since that is the reason for getting one ;-) There's a shop closer to me that uses the Retul Fit System https://alexbicycles.com/, I don't know how that compares to the Serotta system that The Racer's Edge uses. Oh wait, Racer's Edge also uses Retul (I was just looking at their website again in another browser tab). I imagine I could go to the shop closer to me and get properly fit.

Barrettscv 

Hi Garilia,

I also agree that an expert bike fit is critical. The fee is well worth it, and the fitter can often select an standard production frame that will fit, avoiding the cost of a custom frame.

Most of the folks paying for the service get most of it back when buying a new bike at my bike shop. And, believe it or not, most do not care. They want a bike that will take them to the next level of performance.



The service is also a one time cost. They will adjust any bike purchased from any source for a lifetime. I have yet to buy a bike from my bike shop, Get A Grip, yet they have fitted me to four bikes. The first fitting was a three hour session. The additional fittings needed about one to two hours. These sessions are included with the initial fee. Also, if I ever buy a custom bike, they will consult with the frame-builder to optimize geometry and tube-set.

Michael

bobbycorno

...and they were most likely just trying to stay in business as well. The bike biz is not something you do to get rich off all the suckers that walk in your door. Most retailers, if you were to tell them they had to sell their products for the same margin that bike dealers do, would laugh in your face and tell you not to let the door hit your butt on the way out.

That said, I've found that I know more about the product than most bike shop employees, so it may just be a lack of knowledge on their part of the hired help. Or, they may be under a certain amount of pressure to move inventory that's been on the floor for several months or longer. And the margin on bikes is the lowest of anything in the shop, as a rule, so there's not a lot of wiggle room on price. All in all, running a bike shop is a hard way to keep from going broke, so don't be too harsh on 'em. They're just trying to get by like the rest of us.

SP
Bend, OR

Garilia

I don't mean to sound harsh. I understand they're trying to stay in business, just as I'm trying to maximize my dollar, and have some money left over to buy bike accessories. I do spend money at the local shops on accessories, clothes, shoes, helmet, gloves. I also purchase some things online, such as tires. Which are things I would not be buying if I didn't own a bike, wherever I purchased it from.

Garilia

I'm still pondering. Haven't had a chance to get to any shops in the past two weeks. Still saving my pennies, but have gotten the wife to understand I will probably be spending more than $1k.

outwest5

Be careful! If it was a first bike, then under $1000 is fine. No sense in spending a bunch of money if it turns out you don't ride it. I was whining that I wanted a road bike for the last year. My husband was sick of hearing about it on our rides, "You know, if I had a road bike I bet I could go a lot further." "You know, I wouldn't be walking up this hill if I had a road bike." I researched and read a bunch and talked to my biking brother. He said since I already had a bike and knew I would keep riding, I would be happiest if I bought a bike that wouldn't need a bunch of upgrades. It costs a lot more to upgrade a bike you aren't completely satisfied with than to buy it stock in the first place.

I waited some more. I went to the bike shop to see what I could get for around $1500-2000. At around $1700 I could break into the carbon frames with low end components. I made the mistake of trying a carbon framed bike...just for fun. Nothing else felt as nice. It didn't help that my brother swore by the carbon frame he has had for several years. I rode more bikes. Now I was looking at a carbon framed bike with lower components for around $2000 with tax. But, of course I had to at least have Shimano 105's. Then brother said, "Remember that there are three basic things that make a big difference on the bike- wheels, gearing and the frame. Wheels are important and Ultegra is only about a $300 upgrade from 105's on a stock bike."

Then my husband said, "HEY! I should get one TOO! I can't have you with a swanky bike and me following along on the hybrid." ugh. If I was planning on getting a carbon framed bike, he had to have one. Then lbs said, "If you buy two we will give you a BIG discount." The final blow was an unexpected tax refund to add to my 'saving for bike' fund. Suddenly, the Ultegra and nice wheels and carbon frame wasn't so out of reach, just a bit of a stretch. Of course, he had to have that, too.

Like I said, be careful. Your wife may get jealous like my husband did and end up wanting one. We did save a lot of money buying two, by the way. Still, it would have been an awfully nice trip to Europe...

bobthib

NEXT YEAR!! Europe on your road bikes!

alanknm

Last fall, when I told my wife that I wanted a road bike I pointed out what I was thinking about buying:

Question 1) Oh... a real bike ?
Question 2) How much? I said about $2800 + $350 or so for road shoes and clipless pedals
Question 3) OK. I thought that you were talking about $6000-$7000 instead ?
Question 4) I guess you'll have to cash in on some of your stock options ?

It makes me think that I should have showed her the S-Works Roubaix with the DuraAce instead of the Roubaix Comp with the 105.

But the main reason for going to a full carbon Roubaix was quite simple, road buzz and my age (57). Bikes like the Specialized Roubaix or Giant Defy in the "plush" or endurance road bike category are great for those long long rides. I'm not interested in racing but I do like a good performing bike. To me, the Roubaix was a no-brainer.

I'd got back into riding again after a very long absence (like 35+ years) and after a year of riding on an cheap aluminum hybrid that I bought a few years ago I'd had enough and wanted to get back into the saddle of a road bike again. I also hated riding into the wind feeling like the vane on a windmill. Hybrids are fun and are great for running out to the corner store but in retrospect, back then I should have just bought a cheap entry level road bike instead . But that's just me.

Depending on the make, you may find that your LBS might have problems with availability of some models and sizes. I got mine in the winter and paid more simply because it was the best time to buy a bike that was in my size. If you wait until late spring, all the popular sizes are gone for most models (at least for some makes).


Now if I can just get those 10-15 pounds off....

outwest5

My dream bike was unavailable, but it is fading from my mind as I get attached to mine the more I tweek it (matching water bottles, shoes that go with the bike, a new saddle). I got the low model of the same frame, which was available, and they upgraded it to the higher model specs I had wanted for a nice savings in money. My dream bike was really out of my price range anyway once hubbie wanted one, too. The only difference is the color and a few aluminum bits in the carbon fork (the higher model was all carbon). The difference in weight is a few sips of water. It weighs 17 pounds, which is plenty light for me! I think anything up to 20 pounds is great in a road bike. My hybrid is 35 pounds without the basket. I also don't think light, light, light is as important as fit and comfort. A lot of people like their lightweight aluminum bikes just as much as I am liking mine.

My local bike shop has now started financing bikes. LOL. It's a dangerous hobby, but we sure are having fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Garilia

I went a little further away from my usual radius to visit a Bianchi dealer in Hialeah. After the other thread, I was interested in the Via Nirone 7 105. I have been working on the wife, and have agreed that I will be able to spend up to $2k on a bike. This dealer was saying that he feels Bianchi's are overpriced and you're paying for the name, and that at the 105 level they cheap out on too many other components. He was recommending a Cannondale Supersix or a Scott CR1 Team. I stood on the CR1 in the store, and lifted that carbon frame. I've never felt a bike so light (shows you what a carbon neophyte I am). So he's given me more things to ponder. I did get a good vibe in the store. I was helped immediately, I felt I was getting solid advice (the owner rides a Cannondale Supersix). He said that the only other bike brand he'd recommend in my price range is Specialized, but he doesn't sell them. He mentioned that he'd discount MSRP by about 15% and would do a pro fit for free if I purchase there. Meanwhile, i still have to save some $$$$

alanknm

The Scott CR1 Team is similar in geometry and price to the Roubaix Comp that I have. Don't forget to factor in the cost of pedals, shoes, shorts (can't ride one of those without them) , water bottle cages, water bottles , a seatbag with the usual goodies (inflator kit, spare tube, duct tape etc.. ), a good floor pump and a presta/shrader adaptor. The shoes and pedals will add another $200-300+ (depending on what you get).

Your LBS may offer a package deal for all of that stuff and give you a decent discount on it.

The way I saw it was to buy the best frame for the amount of money I was going to spend that would be suitable for kind of riding I do. Anything else was gravy.

The 2011 Roubaix came with the upgraded Shimano 105 groupset (5700). I've been told that aside from a little extra weight it's hard to tell the difference from Ultegra. The CR1 comes with the full 105 groupset as well.

Save your money and get the CR1. You won't be sorry. Either bike is a lot of bang for the buck.

Garilia

I bought a MTB a few months ago that has presta valves. I have a floor pump, shorts, mini-pump, seat bag, camelbak, tire levers, SPD shoes, work stand...I am thinking of different pedals for the MTB (platform on one side) and then switch my clipless pedals (Shimano m540, technically a MTB pedal, but pretty lightweight) to a road bike and use the Bontrager shoes (they are not road specific, but they'll work in the beginning). But I hear ya, I will need another pair of shorts I'm sure.

The Shimano PD-m540 are described as: Open binding mechanism and light weight for serious off-road competitors
Compact body design will be popular with road cyclists/century riders
The best mud and debris shedding ability of any other pedal in its class
Chrome-moly spindle and low maintenance sealed bearing cartridge axle
Adjustable cleat tension great feature for beginners



The Bontrager shoes I have are:


They are described as: A dyed-in-the-wool trail shoe with best-in-class weight, the Race MTB WSD gives off-road riders off-road performance at an incredible price. Styled after its big sister the RL MTB WSD, the Race WSD features a composite sole for stiffness and efficiency, direct inject TPU lugs for excellent off-bike traction, and a highly adjustable three strap velcro system that makes dialing in a personalized fit quick and easy.

A friend who is a road rider was impressed with how light they are. I'll have to see how they work over some distance.

Thanks for the feedback on the Scott and the Spec. Roubaix. The more I look at that Scott, the more I like it, I'll have to see how it feels under me.

outwest5

My lbs also thought you paid a few hundred more for a Bianchi of the same caliber as other brands, but didn't think they were overpriced, just superbly designed (of course, he sells them and rides one). I rode one and thought they rode better than some of the others. When I told them my initial price range of $1500-2000 they also showed me the bottom level carbon. I don't think a bottom level carbon is a bad way to go. The components on them are not going to be junk. You will get better components on an aluminum frame of the same price and they can take some dings better than the carbon. With a bottom level carbon you can also upgrade the wheels in a year if you want to or slowly start upgrading the components. Or, you may be happy with it just the way it is. You will have the good frame. I love how I can pick my bike up and swing it around like it's nothing, but a lot of people prefer and love their aluminum bikes. You just have to ride them!

You are being just like me and really making sure you get the right thing for you, but I do think going for the best frame you can get and waiting on better components if or when you want/need them is a good way to eventually have an awesome bike.

Those shoes will work fine with the new bike.
My lbs gave me two free carbon water bottle holders (with their name embossed on them), free water bottles (again with their name), free tire tools (plastic with their name of them), a little adaptor for gas stations that they screwed right on the valve so it doesn't get lost and a free tube (cheapy one). I bought a little CO2 kit and a couple extra cartriages. You can just move your little bag between the two bikes. You can only ride one at a time.

You will be able to use all your money for the bike. Lucky you!

BluesDawg

The PD-M540s are good MTB pedals. I would leave them on the MTB. If I wanted SPD pedals on my road bike I would get A520s.

edit - better yet, go with SPD-SL

alanknm

I've got M540's on my hybrid and I use SPD MD86's with them. A pretty good combination for a hybrid or mountain bike. I got the M540's because they were inexpensive and a good match for an inexpensive hybrid.

I went for the matching PD-5700-L pedals on the Roubaix because they just made more sense. I've got a pair of SH-R106L shoes that are a LOT lighter than the MD86's. The geometry of a road pedal and a road shoe is quite different from a MTB setup. You may be setting yourself up for knee problems if you try riding with MTB shoes and pedals on a road bike. I also don't see the point in using a cheap heavy pedal on a full carbon bike. Mountain shoes don't work work very well with road cleats (not Shimano at any rate because they won't fit) .

If you want double sided road pedals, there are other makes (like Speedplay).

Save your knees and get a proper pedal/shoe match to the bike.

outwest5

I am not using full road shoes on my carbon framed bike because I wanted to be able to walk around. I eventually want to buy full road shoes, but these are fine right now. He can use the ones he has so he can get the bike he wants. He can get different shoes in 6 months. A set of two sided decent road pedals are around $50. If he buys them at the time he buys the bike, he should get a discount on them. We all want to get the exact right stuff, but sometimes things can wait. New shoes are expensive. They can wait.

Garilia

It's my understanding that the CR1 entry level carbon at Scott used to be their highend frame until the came out with the Addict. So kind of like DuraAce technology trickles down to Ultegra, so it goes with frames. Right now everything is just "mental ************" comparing specs and component names. Until I feel the bike under me on the road I won't know for sure how I'll like it.

I am thinking along the lines of spending more on the frame and less on the gruppo, and then if I'm dissatisfied with the gruppo (or more likely, when it breaks) I can replace/upgrade.

I have read some people on some forums bashing carbon frames, I know if I went with aluminum, I'd want a carbon fork at least.

The Scott comes with full Shimano 105 components, the Cannondale Supersix doesn't put a full 105 kit on their 105 level bike. The Mavic Aksium wheels are better than the wheels on the 105 Supersix as well.

We'll see

maybe I'll just go for platform pedals and sneakers, or a toe cage on the road bike. I'm not that fussy about the footwear/pedals yet, and I refuse to be a weight wienie over the pedals.

alanknm

It's not about being a weight weenie but more about getting the best out of yourself with the bike.
Yes, bike shoes are expensive but they're better for your feet. You can use mountain shoes but it's vastly better to go with the more rigid road shoe with the wider platform. Some road shoe / cleat combinations are better for walking in than others so shop around.

Don't wear sneakers with platform pedals unless you feel like putting up with cramping feet.. (get out those old Florsheims or combat boots or something with a hard sole)