learning to pedal circles without thinking about it....
#26
just keep riding
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 13,560
Likes: 44
From: Milledgeville, Georgia
Bikes: 2018 Black Mountain Cycles MCD,2017 Advocate Cycles Seldom Seen Drop Bar, 2017 Niner Jet 9 Alloy, 2015 Zukas custom road, 2003 KHS Milano Tandem, 1986 Nishiki Cadence rigid MTB, 1980ish Fuji S-12S
I think you are on the right track. Thinking about circles or about wiping mud off the bottom of the shoes or whatever mental trick you use, it's all about developing a smooth spin and transferring power as evenly as possible through the full circle of pedaling. The longer you do it, the more natural it will become. But even after many years of pedaling circles, I still find a boost in power by concentrating on smooth pedaling at key times like while climbing or when accelerating on flats.
#29
Senior Member
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 4,340
Likes: 496
From: Bristol, R. I.
Bikes: Specialized Secteur, old Peugeot
I think fixed gear drills may be a very good idea. I went for a short ride on the bike path today and at one point was passed by a teen aged boy furiously pedaling a BMX. I was still accelerating at a modest rate but was surprised at his speed. Less than a minute later, with the help of a bit of tail wind, I was rolling at 21 mph and passed him back. After an intersection stop, while accellerating again, he evedently was not going to take being passed by an old guy, and came by again, this time his feet were a blur. Then he popped a wheelie on his front wheel. Watching his feet reminded me of a Road Runner cartoon where Wiley Coyote's feet are whirling around in a blur while you hear a jet engine sound spooling up. To learn to spin fast, get a fixed gear bike.
#30
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,804
Likes: 1
From: Medina, OH
Bikes: confidential infromation that I don't even share with my wife
On today's ride while riding up some 2-3% grades I would ride no handed and concentrate on the full pedal stroke. I takes a nice round pedal stroke and some bike handling skills but is not that difficult once started. Note, that is pedaling 201 so be sure that you have completed pedaling 101 first.
#32
Senior Member

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 16,767
Likes: 85
Riding no hands will depend very much on the geometry of your bike and in particular, the fork. Not all bikes will enable you to ride no-hands unless at very high speed going downhill.
Anyone who wants to improve their circles -- do the one-foot pedalling exercise.
The thing I have found about fixed gear is that it teaches you to keep your hips level and your upper torso from flopping about. This means you are concentrating most on using your legs to move the pedals.
Anyone who wants to improve their circles -- do the one-foot pedalling exercise.
The thing I have found about fixed gear is that it teaches you to keep your hips level and your upper torso from flopping about. This means you are concentrating most on using your legs to move the pedals.
Last edited by Rowan; 06-20-11 at 05:31 AM.
#33
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
From: Philly Burbs
Bikes: Giant Boulder SE, Fuji 3.0 Newest
I pulled a 30 miler yesterday with my team in New Jersey yesterday. I tried to think - "pedaling in circles" and did pretty well most of the time. I'm getting faster, actually lead the "C" group for a few miles. Which felt really good, considering the last time I rode with these folks I was bring up the rear.
Pedaling in circles definitely helps. Now the question is how long will it take for pedaling in circles to come naturally for me? i's assuming years.
Pedaling in circles definitely helps. Now the question is how long will it take for pedaling in circles to come naturally for me? i's assuming years.
#34
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,770
Likes: 2
From: Green Valley AZ
Bikes: Trice Q; Volae Century; TT 3.4
I could not learn to "pedal in circles" but responded to "scrape imaginary but sticky mud."
Like you I lose form but after five or six years that's relatively infrequent.
Like you I lose form but after five or six years that's relatively infrequent.
#35
Old fart



Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 26,359
Likes: 5,271
From: Appleton WI
Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.
If you want to improve your pedaling technique, set up a fixed gear bike and ride it exclusively for several weeks. When you go back to your regular bike you WILL see a difference.
#36
Senior Member
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 4,340
Likes: 496
From: Bristol, R. I.
Bikes: Specialized Secteur, old Peugeot
To pedal at high cadence it is necessary to pedal in circles. To pedal in circles check out this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVbwn...layer_embedded
#37
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,804
Likes: 1
From: Medina, OH
Bikes: confidential infromation that I don't even share with my wife
Riding on rollers no-handed requires a near perfect pedal stroke that can transfer to riding on the road. I got there this past winter. Here is a brief annimated video which may help.
https://www.xtranormal.com/watch/8195...ng-the-rollers
https://www.xtranormal.com/watch/8195...ng-the-rollers
#38
#39
Senior Member
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 4,340
Likes: 496
From: Bristol, R. I.
Bikes: Specialized Secteur, old Peugeot
I sure hope your home environment is more...umm, supportive. Now that you can ride rollers no hands, your next assignment, should you choose to accept it, would be to juggle three tennis balls simultaneously. Video proof required.
#40
Senior Member

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 9,158
Likes: 1,743
From: Lebanon (Liberty Hill), CT
Bikes: Canyon Aeroad, CAAD 12, MASI Gran Criterium S, Colnago World Cup CX, Guru steel & Guru Photon
Riding on rollers no-handed requires a near perfect pedal stroke that can transfer to riding on the road. I got there this past winter. Here is a brief annimated video which may help.
https://www.xtranormal.com/watch/8195...ng-the-rollers
https://www.xtranormal.com/watch/8195...ng-the-rollers
#41
If you choose gears to keep your cadence consistently in the 95 to 110 range, maintaining an efficient pedal stroke tends to take care of itself. When you find that you're riding at a cadence lower than that, just switch to a lower gear.
#42
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,000
Likes: 3
From: Further North than U
Bikes: Spec Roubaix, three Fisher Montare, two Pugs
I got back to biking a bit over a year ago. I saw right away I had no ability to spin in circles. I could do it for just a few minutes and it made my legs tired after that. But having been a cyclist years ago I knew its importance and I just kept working at it, consciously each ride here and there. It took a full season and more for me to get to the point where now I am spinning pretty much all the time. Spin in circles till it's tiring. Ride. Spin again. Mash. Spin whenever you can. Keep working at it consciously. +1 on spinning classes and short bursts of ultra high speed spinning. It may take quite a while to get it under control because the leg muscles used aren't balanced for spinning by normal walking, but it will come after some hundreds of miles.
#43
"Chooch"
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,659
Likes: 2
From: Prairieville, Louisiana
Bikes: Late 1990s Ciocc Titan
Read this: https://www.rivbike.com/article/clothing/the_shoes_ruse
EXCERPT: "When elite pedalers and lousy rookie pedalers have been hooked up to machines that measure muscle activity during pedaling, the machines tell us this: during normal pedaling at normal cadences, nobody pulls UP on the backstroke the elite/efficient pedalers push down less on the upward moving pedal than the rookies do."
So . . . we don't really pedal in circles after all?
(Yes, I realize who I'm quoting on this, so please take it with a teaspoon of salt since no particular study is cited.)
EXCERPT: "When elite pedalers and lousy rookie pedalers have been hooked up to machines that measure muscle activity during pedaling, the machines tell us this: during normal pedaling at normal cadences, nobody pulls UP on the backstroke the elite/efficient pedalers push down less on the upward moving pedal than the rookies do."
So . . . we don't really pedal in circles after all?
(Yes, I realize who I'm quoting on this, so please take it with a teaspoon of salt since no particular study is cited.)
#44
just keep riding
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 13,560
Likes: 44
From: Milledgeville, Georgia
Bikes: 2018 Black Mountain Cycles MCD,2017 Advocate Cycles Seldom Seen Drop Bar, 2017 Niner Jet 9 Alloy, 2015 Zukas custom road, 2003 KHS Milano Tandem, 1986 Nishiki Cadence rigid MTB, 1980ish Fuji S-12S
Read this: https://www.rivbike.com/article/clothing/the_shoes_ruse
EXCERPT: "When elite pedalers and lousy rookie pedalers have been hooked up to machines that measure muscle activity during pedaling, the machines tell us this: during normal pedaling at normal cadences, nobody pulls UP on the backstroke the elite/efficient pedalers push down less on the upward moving pedal than the rookies do."
So . . . we don't really pedal in circles after all?
(Yes, I realize who I'm quoting on this, so please take it with a teaspoon of salt since no particular study is cited.)
EXCERPT: "When elite pedalers and lousy rookie pedalers have been hooked up to machines that measure muscle activity during pedaling, the machines tell us this: during normal pedaling at normal cadences, nobody pulls UP on the backstroke the elite/efficient pedalers push down less on the upward moving pedal than the rookies do."
So . . . we don't really pedal in circles after all?
(Yes, I realize who I'm quoting on this, so please take it with a teaspoon of salt since no particular study is cited.)
#45
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,804
Likes: 1
From: Medina, OH
Bikes: confidential infromation that I don't even share with my wife
Read this: https://www.rivbike.com/article/clothing/the_shoes_ruse
EXCERPT: "When elite pedalers and lousy rookie pedalers have been hooked up to machines that measure muscle activity during pedaling, the machines tell us this: during normal pedaling at normal cadences, nobody pulls UP on the backstroke the elite/efficient pedalers push down less on the upward moving pedal than the rookies do."
So . . . we don't really pedal in circles after all?
(Yes, I realize who I'm quoting on this, so please take it with a teaspoon of salt since no particular study is cited.)
EXCERPT: "When elite pedalers and lousy rookie pedalers have been hooked up to machines that measure muscle activity during pedaling, the machines tell us this: during normal pedaling at normal cadences, nobody pulls UP on the backstroke the elite/efficient pedalers push down less on the upward moving pedal than the rookies do."
So . . . we don't really pedal in circles after all?
(Yes, I realize who I'm quoting on this, so please take it with a teaspoon of salt since no particular study is cited.)
#46
just keep riding
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 13,560
Likes: 44
From: Milledgeville, Georgia
Bikes: 2018 Black Mountain Cycles MCD,2017 Advocate Cycles Seldom Seen Drop Bar, 2017 Niner Jet 9 Alloy, 2015 Zukas custom road, 2003 KHS Milano Tandem, 1986 Nishiki Cadence rigid MTB, 1980ish Fuji S-12S
These are not necessarily conflicting positions.
#47
Version 7.0


Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,844
Likes: 3,858
From: SoCa
Bikes: Road, Track, TT and Gravel
Tell the researcher to ride with a Power Tap or other type of watt meter. Ride for 10 minutes at your regular cadence at your mid Z3 pace and record your average watts. Take a 10 minute break then ride another 10 minutes at Z3 at your regular cadence but this time concentrate on putting power into every part of your pedal stroke. Compare the average watts from the two efforts. I'll bet they will say there is a difference in average watts for the same effort and that we should pedal in circles if we want more speed at the same effort. I'm not a scientist or researcher but I have done the experiment and I concentrate on putting power into the entire pedal stroke.

The key point is the more you can use your glutes (ass) and the quads less, for the same power there is less fatigue because the glutes get better blood flow. Does your ass ever get tired? My ass does not but my quads die like dogs.
#48
Thread Starter
Senior Member



Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,755
Likes: 5,372
From: Minneapolis
Bikes: 2022 Salsa Beargrease Carbon Deore 11, 2020 Salsa Warbird GRX 600, 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX disc 9.0 Di2, 2020 Catrike Eola, 2016 Masi cxgr, 2011, Felt F3 Ltd, 2010 Trek 2.1, 2009 KHS Flite 220
My experience too however.... Power produced is directly proportional to our ability to get oxygen to the muscles and use it. So once our power exceeds our available oxygen, it is checkmate. IMO, having a great pedal stroke is about de-emphasizing the use of the quads and emphasizing the use of the glutes (which get great blood flow) and contribution from the hams and hip flexors. Hypo...two riders in the peloton and one is pedaling smoothly and keeping his feet in the top of his shoes. He is optimizing his hams, hip flexors and glutes with minimal use of the quads. The other is spinning slower and mashing away using his quads and glutes. The peloton comes to a bump in the road and the power for both riders goes to 400 watts. The first rider now engages his fresher quads more while the other rider has to continue mashing putting even more work into his quads. As the miles go on, the rider who has a better pedals stroke has less fatigue at the end than the masher.
The key point is the more you can use your glutes (ass) and the quads less, for the same power there is less fatigue because the glutes get better blood flow. Does your ass ever get tired? My ass does not but my quads die like dogs.
The key point is the more you can use your glutes (ass) and the quads less, for the same power there is less fatigue because the glutes get better blood flow. Does your ass ever get tired? My ass does not but my quads die like dogs.

#49
Step 1: Put a 52" fixed gear on your bike
Step 2: Take it to the top of a long steep descent (many miles)
Step 3: Get on, clip in
Step 4: Proceed all the way down the hill (at top speed, of course)
Step 5: survive
Congratulations! You can now pedal in circles!
SP
Bend, OR
Step 2: Take it to the top of a long steep descent (many miles)
Step 3: Get on, clip in
Step 4: Proceed all the way down the hill (at top speed, of course)
Step 5: survive
Congratulations! You can now pedal in circles!
SP
Bend, OR
#50
Thread Starter
Senior Member



Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,755
Likes: 5,372
From: Minneapolis
Bikes: 2022 Salsa Beargrease Carbon Deore 11, 2020 Salsa Warbird GRX 600, 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX disc 9.0 Di2, 2020 Catrike Eola, 2016 Masi cxgr, 2011, Felt F3 Ltd, 2010 Trek 2.1, 2009 KHS Flite 220
Spin in circles till it's tiring. Ride. Spin again. Mash. Spin whenever you can. Keep working at it consciously. It may take quite a while to get it under control because the leg muscles used aren't balanced for spinning by normal walking, but it will come after some hundreds of miles.






