Not sure this in the right section but I assume us folks over fifty run into this more often. Got a modern road bike this summer, went on my second group ride. Quite a few hills, noticed everyone seemed to have two or three gears lower then my set up. Did an 8% 2 mile hill. Ended up grinding up at 8 mph by the top my knees were speaking up. Got home and did the math and my cadence was just shy of 52 rpm. Front chainrings are 53/39 rear cassette is 12-25. Looked on line for a different campy centaur cassette I see they have a 13-29 which would put me at 75 rpm. Sounded reasonable but this puts me right were I was on my old Nishiki until I scrounged a smaller small ring for it. I live in the Seattle area near the cascade foot hills so hills are part of game. Can you change the largest two or three cogs on the campy cassette? Should I change the smaller front ring gear? What works for the rest of you? Cranks are 170 and I am 5' 10" I weight 185

Most older riders are using compact cranks (50/34 rings) these days for climbing. Heck, many of the fast younger guys are too. That would be a good place to start IMO. You would have to replace your current crank. Then, if the 34/25 gear is still too tall you can replace the cassette to a wider range.

I have a triple and I think it's the best thing ever. I'm not racing so the ounces from the extra ring don't bother me.

I also live in the Seattle area. I run a compact, 50/34 on the front and a 30-12 cassette in the rear. This combination serves me well on my daily commute which features multiple 10% pitches with a loaded bike as well as rides in the Cascades (it was a great combination for RAMROD a few weeks ago).

Did the math on a 50/34 compact, appears the 13/29 cassette would yeild just a bit lower ratio. I guess you could change both but $$$. Do bike shops give AARP discounts?

I decided to look up Campy cassettes and all I can say is I am glad I have Shimano/ SRAM. If your derailleur will take it change cassettes till you can get into the 75 range. Some of the riders in the last AMGEN were using SRAM 11x32s but they had medium derailleurs. And yes many do use compacts. a 34x32 gives you close to a 1 to 1 climb ratio. On the flats a 50x11 is pretty close to a 53x12 over all. I take it you have a new 11 speed cassette?

Have two bikes- Both pretty good and Have a compact 50/34 on one and triple 50/39/30 on the other. I only went Road 5 years ago and used to use the MTB with 44/34/22 and an11/32 cassette on the road rides and it was surprising how often I used that 22/32 on the hills. Same hills and first road bike and triple 52/42/30 and a 12/26 cassette. Those hills I found hard in 22/32 were no harder in 30/26- but were faster.

Year later and Better road bike and compact 50/34 and 12/27 cassette. Same hills and I rode them in 34/27 and was faster again. To get confidence- with the compact- I started on the less steep hills. 8% was fine- then the 10% and the 12 to 15%. Managed all of them but the basket 16% did hurt. Next bike and I got a compact crank again but did try a standard 52/39 crank. I cannot do the 16% on that one and the 12 to 15% hurts. As I want to get back into the mountains- I got a triple for that bike- 50/39/30 and it is fine but with one proviso. Hills I can do on with 34/27 on the compact are not possible with 39/25 on the triple so I have to use the 30T granny ring. Not a hard thing but in hindsight do I need a triple?

With my current riding- which is quite hilly- I can get by with the compact. I may not need that triple but any hillier or longer Hilly rides and I am gratefull for the triple. I also realise that at 64 I am no longer able to steam up the hills (I never have been able to) and I will require lower gearing in the future.

Gearing is one of the choices that has to be made for you. Everyone is different but you have a choice- Spend money on a new Crankset- Or HTFU and learn to climb those hills.

I understand gear ratios, but all this is boggling my mind in a way. I have a 52/38 double, with a 175 crank. 12/25 8 speed cassett (These are the numbers on the gears and crank that look like the right information)
What are you guys looking for on the hills? Cadence, or speed? (Or both?)
I had several tougher hills yesterday on my first half century, managed the early ones at 12-14 mph fairly easily, towards the last 10 miles I struggled to keep 8 mph. (Of course I was getting fatigued some)
So I suppose there are no hills around here I CAN'T climb,, but what exactly are you guys searching for?
Inquiring minds wish to know!

I'm vintage and live in hilly country (no mountains but we do have some that hit 1500ft). And I'm one of those that ride with an old fashioned, terribly outdated gear set. 52/40 on the front and 29/14 on the rear.

My granny gear is Jezebel's sister.

Jim, on hills cadence is your friend. When you lose that and there is hill left over, you are just about finished.

1slowride, The 13-29, if your RD can handle the chain wrap will be more knee friendly than what you're currently running... If you wreck your knees cadence becomes a moot point.

A compact crankset or a triple crankset are options, but while this starts to become expensive can be viable alternatives with either cassette you've listed. I have a 52-42-30 triple on my 'distance bike' for two reasons; 1) I have a iffy knee that sometimes needs baby'g and 2) I ride in two very different terrains and enjoy the triple's flexability.

Brad

In your situation I think I would try the 13-29 cassette which, as you say, with your 39 tooth small ring would give you basically the same ratio (slightly lower) as a 34 ring and a 25 tooth cassette cog. That is a good bit better than your current 39/25 lowest gear. But if that result isn't low enough, you'll need to look into buying a compact crank. You could go lower still with a triple crank, but that would also require a new front derailleur and possibly a new left shifter (I think some Campy brifters are convertible to triples?).

Just curious......how are you calculating cadence? Formula please.

You can't change the front chainring to something smaller without changing the crank to a "compact" 110mm BCD crank.
I agree with the suggestions to try a cassette with larger cogs. If you have 11sp you can get a 12-29. For 10sp you'll need a 13-29. You should check but you may need a mid-cage derailleur to handle the larger cogs.

I find that when my cadence drops too low on a climb I am slower. Getting more appropriate gearing would help you keep up with the group on climbs.

Sure there are other ways to figure **** but this is how I did it. Took tire diameter x Pi to get the tires circumfence 7.22'. Then figured out how many ft per min you travel at 1 mph which came out to 88'. Now figure your front / rear tooth ratio IE 39 front divided by 25 rear gives you a ratio of 1.88 (rear wheel turns 1.88 times for each turn of the crank. Now pick a speed you ride say 8 mph. 8 mph X 88 ft traveled per mph= 704 ft traveled in one min. We know the tire circumfence is 7.22'.
Divide the 704 ft travel per min by 7.22' = 97.5 turns of the rear wheel per min. We are almost there, Take the turns per min of the wheel and divide that by the gear ration. 97.5/ 1.88 which give you a cadence of 52 rpm. I put this into an excel sheet so I can just plug in the different numbers and it spits out the info. Be happy to fix this sheet up a bit and send it to anyone who is interested. There is one thing I did not check. That is the true diameter of the tire, I just used 700mm, was too lazy to get out of bed last night to measure it, shouldnt make much difference. Any way it still works as it shows you the relative diffence between different ratios.

This is a 10 speed Daytona, which I was told later became Centaur because some one didnt like Campy using the Daytona name. This is a used bike and part of the reason I got it was that this componet group appeared to be a couple steps up from what I could get on a new bike in the same price range. I did a scan on craigslist and way more Shimano then Campy parts...live and learn. That said the leap in technology on this new bike has been like going from a black and white TV to color.

jusdooit,
I calculate Cadence with my CAT EYE WIRELESS COMPUTER! LOL,, much much easier. (It counts ever revolution of my left crank)

But, it's cool to see the formula to do it.

That's a solid pace & cadence for hill climing. I can crawl at 6 mph with a 50 cadence using a 39 chainring & 27 cog, but it can take lot out of me and make for a long day. I'm much happier using a triple and keeping my cadence above 75 rpm.

Just trying to figure out what it will be with different set ups before I spend the coin and find out its wrong.

There are online calculators to let you quickly compare cadence at a given speed in different gears. Here's a really simple one: https://www.kreuzotter.de/english/ecadence.htm Or do a whole chainring and cassette calculation at once here: https://www.machars.net/bikecalc.htm

Your tire circumference is probably less than this so your cadence is higher than you calculated, which might be useful to you. The 700c rim is 622mm (I know, it's a stupid convention). Plus tire for the diameter.

This might be easier.
https://sheldonbrown.com/gears/

Cool thanks
All those years learning excel wasted !

Thanks for the calc info. I have always heard (read) people using gear ratios to figure this out and not cadence. Since I don't have one of those "fancy" computers with cadence I wanted to know how to calc. it on my own.

If you're barely turning 52 rpm in a 39/25 gear, going to a 29 rear will get you about 8-9 rpm. That isn't enough gear for you to be spinning better than 70. I have my bikes setup with 34/28 and 34/32 because I live where I have to climb on every ride. I used to ride a 39/27 gear but it was all I could handle on a climb towards the end of a century barely turning over the cranks. I'm older now too, so that figures into the calculation.

You can probably find a new groupset for less than buying the extra parts to make what you have work. Or better yet, a slightly used set. If you're willing to move away from Campy even better.

FWIW, I live in a very hilly area where climbs of 1000' at 8-12% are not uncommon. So I spent a lot of time messing with my bike to put on a compact crank (50/34) and big cassette (11-34 9-speed). Then one day I rode the same routes with an 11-23 cassette and realized I actually liked climbing that way better - grinding a bigger gear instead of spinning an easier one. And computer data shows it's just as fast for me anyway. I now only use big cassettes in dirt where I need it to prevent getting wheel spin if/when I stand up - the 34tooth lets me stay seated and maintain rear traction and still climb up the trails.