you know how as you get older you don't let "political correctness" get in the way?

Here's my rant....to me, it seems a lot of bike folks get so involved in the best brand, the best fit, the proper seat, shaving off a few grams, the right sized tires,etc. that they loose a big part of the bicycle experience. If you want to go faster or ride longer or improve hill performance then....BE PREPARED FOR PAIN. If you're a cardiac patient, I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about folks that are basically healthy and in at least entry level shape. Be with the pain, enjoy it, know it is an investment, learn to look forward to it. If you just want to pedal around a park and enjoy the trees, then I don't mean you either. I have ridden 140 miles weekly for two years now, I'm 215 lbs and 64 years old (this isn't about me, I'm just the only example I know a lot about) every time I ride it's painful! When I get back to the garage, I don't care what my Edge 800 says about heartrate or cadence, I just stand there and feel good! I love the fact that I passed a 30 year old on the road. I love the fact that I'm sweaty and my neck hurts!
Yeah, I could have taken the touring bike today with the cushy seat and 28 tires but I wanted to push myself, go fast and hard on my speedy bike with the brick for a seat. After my shower I sit at the computer and finally there's no pain at all, just a wierd, powerful type of fatigue, the kind only bicyclists know of.

So, you are a masochist. The world is full of them. Enjoy your pain!

Hey, I"m OK with the pain, but do you object if I feel my pain on a RED bicycle? Or is that losing sight of the true bicycle experience?

Soooo. You wouldn't ever make a small adjustment to relieve neck discomfort because you like that pain? Whatever floats your boat, I guess.

I like your attitude Raydog! Kind of a warrior on a bicycle. A Braveheart of sorts...

I ride what my LBS sells because I get good deals there. It just happens to be a high end shop.

If Raydog wants pain, just sign up for a Brevet series through the 1200K. That ought to do it.

Pain doesn't start until you put on the running shoes!

Riding with pain isn't necessary with a proper fitting bike. Even inexpensive bikes can be comfortable if they fit properly.

You must be kidding, maybe I didn't make myself clear, the pain is the result of intense self effort not an ill fitted bicycle. My point is we place too much effort on avoiding pain at the expense of conditioning improvement.

miss kenton, I had my bike fitted to my body long ago, my neck pain is the result of a 30 year old car accident. This isn't about floating boats it's about pushing limits.

So, the thesis is, "You can't improve ("intense self-effort") without pain?

I think there are some trainers who might disagree a bit with that. A carefully planned training program might involve some discomfort, but does not have to (and should not) be "painful."

Well, my whole rant is a mild criticism of all the kabitzing about bicycle shiny things at the expense of just getting out and hammering. If the pain I refer to when I push myself makes me a masochist, so be it.

This is what's known as the fallacy of the false dichotomy. You're not, by chance, a politician, are you?

Wow, I think the dozens of racers I train with are very comfortable using the term "pain" to describe pushing oneself. If this is a semantical argument then I don't want to participate. A training program "should have some discomfort"? Maybe you choose to call threshold training, mountain training, interval training "a little discomforting" but that's not my experience....I'm very comfortable going through my "pain barriers" as I improve.

kabitzing????

You can search the pages of this forum and see volumes of argument on Vitoria vrs Michelin, Shimano vrs Campy, It's fun to talk about that stuff but I wonder if, sometimes it occurs in lieu of being on the road pedaling? Oh yeah, "You're not by chance a politician are you?" This is what is known as superficial sarcasm.

Sorry, I thought that meant "mild discussion" but the word doesn't exist.

Raydog, your method doesn't sound like much fun. Just sayin... I think I'd have to put on my madmax helmet to ride with you. I'm wondering has pushing your pain threshold ever resulted in an injury of some sort?

You knew in advance that your post was inviting a sarcastic response, so I guess you are disappointed that the sarcasm has only been superficial. From the sounds of your original post, more visceral sarcasm might be more be to your taste, but that's served in the Road Forum, not here.

No more on this thread. I'm done feeding the troll.

Hey if you don't ride until you can't and crash in a puddle of your own vomit, then you are not giving your maximum effort. I never give my maximum effort. You would probably laugh at what I consider pain.

You could probably be the poster boy for the HTFU crowd.

You are right, in two years when I retire, I long for some of those incredibly intense distance events. A riding buddy of mine just rode his mountain bike across Nevada in 7 days, all on trails!

Like my mother use to say....no pain, no gain....too much pain, no brain.

What a clever final exit, anyways, I hope you enjoy a life of bicycling but remember you must push your pain threshold for improvement. BTW, I've never been called a troll, that's a new one for me.

I think I'm with you on this one raydog. Although I'm only 48 yrs old, I have never done any serious conditioning without "pain". There is, of course, time to relax and chat about this and that aspect of cycling, (like right now) and there is time for leisurely rides around the lakes. But there is also time to get out out and push yourself until you feel like you can't push yourself any further, only to find that yes, you can! That's when rolling into the garage feels sooo good. Not only have you pushed your body, but you've expanded your concept of what you are capable of.

There is no pain. Pain is such a negative word. Negativity has no place in my cycling world.

What you may call pain I just think of as a different sensation. It's not better or worse than any other sensation, just different. When I climb there isn't more effort, only different effort.

May the force be with you.