Sorry, but I have to strongly dispute this. My urologist, endocrinologist, radiation oncologist and family practice doctors have all told me that under no circumstances should testosterone cream or medication be applied to scrotal area. Read the medication pamphlet and it too will say this. If your testosterone is low, but your 'nads are still producing, applying testosterone meds to this area will cause premature shutdown, and could be a precursor to other nasty things. My low T was due to my remaining testicle not being able to keep up with my body's demand for hormone. It shutdown production and is now pretty much an ornament. Always see a qualified professional before venturing down the path of hormone replacement. If you don't want to use a synthetic form, by all means try a natural supplement, but always consult the proper medical professionals first.

Later,

I was hoping someone would point this out.

Testosterone is NASTY stuff. I wouldn't take it unless I absolutely had to - and the prostate issue is just one reason of many.

Zorba, what else is nasty about it?

Sorry, but I have to strongly dispute your dispute. Where do you think you are supposed to apply testosterone patches? Hint: rhymes with nutsack. That's because the skin there is very thin and it is richly supplied with blood vessels. It isn't because its where the boys are or aren't! You don't apply Androgel to your scrotal area because the alcohol carrier in it will burn like Hades. Testosterone cream is suspended in a Safflower Oil carrier and is ok to apply to the scrotum. If you take enough "T" to completely depress the function of your own testicle(s) it/they may atrophy regardless of where the testosterone is applied. I also wonder what makes you think I am not under the care of a qualified physician. Testosterone is a very controlled substance and I for one do not know how to obtain it without a doctor's supervision. That said, my wife and I are avid researchers and probably know as much or more than our doctor in the area of hormone replacement. We need her because she has the credentials and licensing that allow her to legally prescribe the junk that we want. She listens to us and offers her advice and/or guidance when necessary. It is very much a partnership. Never just accept the directives of a physician without question. You are allowed your second opinion and your independent research.

H

Prostate cancer tumors may thrive on testosterone but they were/are caused by too much estrogen. LOW testosterone and the resultant estrogen dominance will get the prostate tumor going. At that point the only thing to do is shut the supply of testosterone down to zero. Breast cancer is also caused by too much estrogen and in women the answer is usually to shut the woman's supply of estrogen down to zero. I wonder how much research has been done in reducing men's estrogen levels to zero in the face of a prostate cancer diagnosis. 87% of men with low testosterone refuse to get treated for it. This destroys marriages, ruins careers, shortens lives. I can't think of anything else that is as easily treatable that has such a resistant mindset among the sufferers. Its really sad.

H

Leisesturm-Can you cite the studies that show estrogen is the cause of prostate cancer. I'm not trying to be combative-just interested. I did a quick google and the studies I saw just concluded that their may be a link and it is worth studying. They were looking at estrogen contamination in water supplies etc. None cited estrogen as the definitive cause of prostate cancer.

l never meant to imply that you are not under the care of a physician. Testosterone is very easy to get WITHOUT a doctor. The patches that were first prescribed to me were the size of 3 x 5 cards and would not have fit anywhere near my scrotal area. Many people take what is on the internet as gospel, all I was saying is that you should always consult qualified individuals (read doctors) and follow their instructions and those of the particular medication, not what other people say on the web. My physicians say to absolutely do not put my medication in the scrotal area, the medication instructions also say this. Again, no maliciousness was intended and if you or anyone takes it as such...sorry.

Later,

Yes, you are in violation and there is no TUE for testosterone. It is strictly prohibited in and out of competition. That is not the case with prednisone which is allowed out of competition with a TUE. You fill out a TUE, have your doctor sign it and submit along with supporting backup for an exemption. Upon review and approval, you are good to go. Here is the website to check all drugs. https://www.globaldro.com/

There was a master who refused a drug test and was suspended (last year?). The officials were tipped off by other racers. He was bragging that he was taking drugs. And USA cycling can show up at your house at any time and demand that you submit a urine sample for testing. They have a mobile unit and do random testing as well as follow up testing from race results.

If you think about it, what is an acceptable level of testosterone that requires replacement therapy as a medical necessity. Let's face it. A 39 year old pro bike racer may have lower testosterone than a 23 year old and benefit from improved recovery from a testosterone patch.

Testosterone's effectiveness is a function of weight. Here is a link. https://www.weightwatchers.com/util/a...d=39281&sc=803 So proper diet, aerobic exercise along with strength training and weight control can go a long way to improving testosterone production and utilization.

As with most health issues, IMHO, public discussion is not a great idea and these matters are better kept private and discussed with medical professionals.

I think the regulators have this one correct. I am not passing judgment of those that choose to take replacement. They cannot compete in USA cycling or UCI events.

Out of competition? How do they possibly enforce this? My testosterone tests squarely in the normal range, what would an official use as evidence of doping to disqualify me from competing in a race?


[QUOTE=Hermes;14181253]
Slippery slope argument. Quality of life is a medical necessity for many. I am not sure of the point you are trying to make.


No argument there but, again, what is your point? What if despite all the diet and exercise your testosterone remains at the level of a 9 year old boy? Just deal with it?


Hmmm. This flies in the face of the spirit of intellectual sharing that is the internet. The privacy is what leads to the abuse. So you keep your doping private and so do I and its all good. I disagree. I have firsthand knowledge of what can happen when one supplements 'T' for long periods of time without checking on what that is doing to their estrogen levels. I am going to share that knowlege in the hope that it will keep some other guy somewhere from making the same mistake. This thread seemed like the perfect place. I have never seen a discussion of this topic online before actually.


No doubt they do. However, I doubt that it makes any difference. Garden variety 'T' is a low bar for drug testing. The stuff that cannot be tested for is the stuff that really makes or breaks a bike race. Just saying. I am not nor have ever been remotely interested in competition. However, if I was, and had testosterone levels low enough to be of concern enough to already conservative American doctors to warrant HRT... well I would seriously wonder about the wisdom of embarking on a racing carreer... ...

H

And none will. Neither will/can I. But I can extrapolate from empirical data... ... I mean... look around... who gets prostate cancer? In the main its older men... more than that, its men whose testosterone was never that high to begin with. Even if you suppose that the tumor may have started at an earlier time in a mans life when testosterone was higher it fails to explain why many obviously high testosterone men never get the disease. Supplementing testosterone to acheive and/or maintain 'normal' levels of 'T' at worst will expose a man to 'normal' amounts of risk of contracting prostate cancer. Word on the street is that the suspected link between xenoestrogens (the estrogenic compounds in water supplies, plastic, fertilizer and pesticides, etc.) is more than just nebulous supposing. But no one will say it. That would of necessity admit that prostate cancer is in fact, man made.

H

anyone know if products advertised in Backpacker Magazine are any good? Such as MdriveBP

https://www.mdrivebp.com/

or this one:

https://www.natrolex.com/

"T" is probably cheaper than that Mdrive stuff. A LOT cheaper. And it will work. Just saying.

H

I get my by monthly shot tomorrow AM and then get blood drawn for testing. I don't know if its my imagination or what but my energy is for sure off. I was supposed to ride yesterday and found excuses and did the same today. I just didn't "have it", whatever "it" is.

I think that I would be unhappy with a dose once a month. Can't imagine how it would really give an even dosage. I'm very happy with the gel myself and have NO problem with stickyness or any of that stuff. While I am very happy with what I'm getting from this in terms of strength and body composition, and more on that later, I'm pretty sure it doesn't give you complete immunity from getting really tired sometimes.

I highly recommend the gels if you have that option!

Sorry to dredge this back up. My numbers just came back and I am still very low. Doc told me to increase to 3 (from 2) pumps a day of the 6%. When I go my first script it was $80 with my insurance . How much do you pay, if you pay less then how?

I pay about $30/month with insurance. You may see your cost go down as you use up your copayment/deductible.

Update on a thread I started one year ago:

I've been on prescription testosterone for a year now and just had my annual checkup, though I have had testosterone checks a couple times during the year. I've been using the gel and applying it mainly in the AM with a touchup dose at night. All indications are that we have the dosage right... max level I have tested three hours after the morning dose is 746. (Normal= 300 to 1000)

I'm very, very happy with my results.

-Bodyweight is down between 10-14 pounds (no really special dieting or increase in mileage ridden)
-Lean body mass up
-Between 20 and 40 watts more power on the trainer than last season
-Recovery from exercise is better... you can still get tired however
-PSA is unchanged and Doc describes my prostate as "perfect"

Unless you are philosophically opposed to this sort of thing, hate big pharma, or your rides are governed by WADA or whoever, I highly recommend getting tested.

i'm glad my sex hormones are in remission..

Babes dig me since I started Androgel.

Glad to hear it is working for you, billydonn. I am still boderline low. I will have another followup blood test soon. Not sure if my doctor will order drugs or not at this point.

[QUOTE=Leisesturm;14181553]Out of competition? How do they possibly enforce this? My testosterone tests squarely in the normal range, what would an official use as evidence of doping to disqualify me from competing in a race?[QUOTE=Hermes;14181253]

Urine or blood is tested for synthetic testosterone. They look for ratios of testosterone to epitestosterone to help them determine if testosterone levels have been artificially raised. They can also look at subtle differences between exogenous versus endogenous testerone. But, yes, testosterone is on WADA's banned list https://www.wada-ama.org/Documents/Wo...st-2013-EN.pdf. They would not be too concerned about whether a competitors testosterone is in a normal range, but whether it was artificially raised.

Well, it's doubled the size of my.....aw, never mind. TMI.

Glad it is working Billydonn.

For those of you who race, I would suggest trying melatonin. Last time I searched thoroughly, it is not on WADA's banned list. But I have not searched thoroughly on their 2013 list.

I've been taking it since last spring & the results were significant & almost immediate. I've felt that I have had fluctuating hormone levels for about 7 years & have had ups & downs in energy levels. Since I've been taking melatonin my energy levels have been consistent & higher. My cycling has improved dramatically.

I have not been tested for testosterone or other hormone levels. However, based on my own perceptions I believe testosterone & HGH levels have increased. A cycling friend of mine who works in the health food/supplements industry told me that melatonin helps regulate other homone levels.

Melatonin is not for everyone as it can increase blood pressure & blood sugar levels. Bottom line, whatever you try taking, do some research.

Two different perspectives there. I hope that your enhanced attractiveness does not become a burden Dudel. I have at least imagined that I am less irrelevant to attractive females these days.... but good taste and my refined upbringing prevents me from elaborating further.

Bill,
For me, the T has done pretty much what the commercials say it should do. If I recall correctly, I felt different pretty soon after starting, with more energy and alertness. I seemed to recover more quickly after exercise. It took a good while (8 or 9 months) to notice changes in body composition... i.e. lower body fat, more defined muscles. My legs, especially, are changing pretty noticeably now. I could not be totally sure of the cycling results until my power meter told me last month that I am capable of making 20-40 more watts than I could make last year.

It might be interesting to back through this thread and see what I was saying during the first few months. To be honest, I don't remember exactly. But the words are there for anyone who looks.

Bill, if you aren't feeling any results consider getting checked again at some point so as to be allowed to up your dosage level, if necessary.

Isn't getting old is a fact of life? So what happens when your body quits producing it's own hormone because of the synthetic stuff being used, more and more gel? There is a lot of info out there and the only thing I needed to read was 1: your body basically quits producing it's own hormone and 2: some people have great results for the short term, but have to up the dose quickly and then it still drops after awhile. I looked into it before I let a pro talk me into a life long commitment of steroids. I also though why do I need to feel younger and stronger at 50. I'm already in great shape and feel good? The natural progression of life dictates things differently in my opinion. I did see a news story on CBS about how older men are turning to this treatment in order to get a boost with their energy, concentration and strength, but there is no long term study on the effects of the stuff and my guess is as everything artificial it isn't great. Sorry about the negative rant, but I think it's silly unless you need it to sustain your life.